Fighting sleep by standing up

[Kellyjs]

Can he get down by himself now hun? I would use your words if you can and pat the bed and ask him to lie down, it's sleepy time now. If he can't I would use the same words and just help him down. Pu/pd isn't really used for older bubbas as for one, it can be really taxing on your back and two, it can just over stimulating and they can have a basic understanding of language around now. How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

So sorry that nap was short, today is another day eh? Xx

These links could help you decide re the paci

Props vs Comfort items. Whats the difference?

PU/PD and Paci Use. Why they don't mix.

[Martini~]

I am not quite sure but I guess there is a case in Tracy's book when at that age even lifting up is too much and may become a AP. Dummy is fine if he can replug by himself. Below 12 months I would probably ditch the dummy completely (starting from daytime) but if you are reluctant, you may try to encourage him to replug by himself. How mobile he is? Mine wasn't too mobile at that age so it's wouldn't work but maybe your LO is. In that case I would find 2 pots (soft ones), and during day I would encourage LO to take dummies in and out of it, when sitting in a high chair let say. And than just put these two pots in his cot so he can find the dummy by himself. But as I said, I am not quite sure if that would work for bubbas under 12mo.

Re PUPD, at 8mo I would only do PD or as Kelly is saying, even encouraging him to lay down by himself if he can.

[Bella89]

Can he get down by himself now hun?

Well, he knows how to, but he just doesn't want to or is too confused to do it:/I started putting him down and talking. Talking of course will not work instantly.That's a long way to go, but I will try it.
Ha, I was sure Pu/PD is used even in older kids like 2-3y. My mistake.
He knows how to plug the paci but takes it out only if he wants to throw it on the floor. I think I will  start to put it next to him instead in his mouth. He knows how to use it by himself. I think at night it's my AP just to make him go to bed faster. I would rather get rid of it once for all to be honest. I think I should start Monday.

But just to be clear. If I get rid of paci and he will cry and stand up, I should use words, NOT pick him up, and try to put him down without lifting?
Also, if he puts fingers, toys, blanke in his mouth is that ok?

He is very mobile. Sometimes too much if you know what I mean
Thank you!

[Martini~]

Do you have Tracy's book BWSAYP? There is a seriom about pupd divided by age. Doing PUPD is different depending on age. When they are 4mo you can put them up and even held for 5min if I am correct but the older they get, holding should be shorter and shorter as too long on mummy arms is becoming a prop. At 8mo I think you stop even lifting them up and just use PD part. In my opinion at older kids even putting down is a prop so it's worth only voice reassurance. So it really changes during time.

Paci is a different story. If he cannot find it you may help him find it by taking his hand and directing towards paci. As I said it's worth practicing a lot during day/ activity time so they know what to expect at night.

[Bella89]

I do, I will certainly go back to that chapter. Thank you. Thigs you read when you are pregnant with the first baby... You forget all about it when the problem comes.
I think I am doing my best. I surely hope so... I am so tired these past 3 days... I was sure the worst time ( newborn) was behind us, but it's yet to come...
I am allmost sure it's teething that came into play right now. I gave my DS Ibuprofen last night and this morning and he had such a great sleeping time. Fell asleep crying, but it didn't take long. This afternoon I didnt want to overdose it and he skipped the whole nap. 1 out of 2 days he is on 1 1,5h nap a day:( I know he is OT, but there is nothing else I can do:(
If my only tools are words when I put him down I feel like it's going to be a disaster:( I will try... We have to get through this:(
I have to say... I do feel alone in this whole situation... Seems like I am the only one trying to find a reason and a solution. My mother in law came in the other they and rocked DS to sleep saying she did great at putting him down. I felt like such a bad mother:(I didnt even protest I was so tired and sad.

[Martini~]

Oh Honey please don't fell like that! No matter if you AP his wakings or do sleep training - both ways are fine. If you think he is teething, maybe just help him go through that anyway and do the sleep training later. And ... It's nothing wrong with what you do to him right now Honey! We are just trying to figure out why he is not letting you sleep for the night and this rocking and lifting may be a reason. If you feel its teething, just go for whatever YOU think suits your little boy.

When I think on my DS, I think that even when teething or ill, not lifting was helpful at that age as it rather wound him up than calm him down. Gentle touch, your hand on him, silent voice - it can help him even better then lifting him at that age. If you are ready, just try. Remember that maybe first days are tough but maybe it will be better later.

[Bella89]

Good news is I got well rested over the weekend thanks to my DH. He is so good to me

So DS is in good moods lately (it's either because his mamma is doing better or idk) which gt me thinking... He is clearly not in pain anymore, so It might have been wonder week or sleep regression or everything combined.No other teeth out, so I guess we're catching a short break. I was sure it's teething (maybe I was right, we will see next few days):/

I talk to him more and got him to sit back down, but he doesn't know how to lay back (or front) so I help him with that. That's actually better.
I don't put his paci in anymore I just lay it next to him. Today he slept till 5.20 without NW (woohooo !!:) and I think It was poo that woke him up. I couldn't settle him back until 6.20. He slept till 7.30. I wonder If it's EW issue we're gonna deal with now I cought him on putting his paci back in 2 times during the night. And mommy takes it back out ;p

It's getting harder and harder to put him for his second nap. If I manage to do it it's only like 20 or 30 min. It's like he switched to 1 nap overnight!! I know he is OT around 6.30 so I put him down earlier.

That's quite an update fr 3 days ;] They change their habits so fast!!

[Kellyjs]

This is excellent news hun, I'm so glad you're feeling more positive.

Want to post what the last few days look like and we'll see if we can tweak anything to help with that second nap? Alot of people use apop to enforce a quick CN to get them to BT later on during the 2-1, so that's an option, but let's see if we can shift things around for you first. My DD started the 2-1 at 8.5mo too, so hope I can help!

Did I give you the link for the 2-1 to have a read through? Xx

From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

[Bella89]

Yes, I read through that post and to me it all looks like we are into 2-1 transition:/

This is our EASY when he naps in the afternoon:
7:00 WU and 6-7oz of formula
8:30 solids
11:00 S
12:30 7oz of formula
3:30 or 4 pm S (he sleeps for 30 min.He seems tired after 3h of A time though)
4 or 4:30 7 oz of formula (here he always finishes it, sometimes even
5:30 rice cereal or muffin
6:45 6-7oz of formula
7:00 bed time story and BT, asleep by 7:40:/

This is our EASY when he DOESN'T nap in the afternoon which is most days lately:
7:00 WU and 6-7oz of formula
8:30 solids
11:00 S
12:30 7oz of formula
30min of quiet time and trying to put him down
4 or 4:30 7 oz of formula (here he always finishes it, sometimes even
6:00 rice cereal or muffin with formula top up
6:30 BT aleep by 7-7:30

As you can see he fights second nap and BT. I really can't see if I am doing anything wrong when I put him down:/ He seems tired after second A time of 3h, but even when he is he won't fall asleep. He would have some quiet time with me, but becomes cheerful after a while and wan't to play.

[Kellyjs]

You are doing really well hun, you're not doing anything wrong at all. It's a little bit of a guessing game tbh to find what works for a little while.

A couple of options really for you hun. Personally I would keep that first nap as the long one, it worked fine for me. Others might suggest to switch it around and do a short capped morning nap, then hope for a longer afternoon and that'll ride out the transition a little longer for you. It never worked for me as DD could do a full A time on a short nap. It worked when we were on mostly one nap and she was a little OT so I could apop a quick 15mims car nap in the car at 9am to get her through to her usual nap time but never really full term in the earlier stages.

So, either she start pushing that first A and accept he won't really do the pm nap much longer, or you can try for a CN around 4.30 (that'll have to be after his bottle, just do 10mins. A time after it if possible) and wake at 5pm latest and that'll bring BT to around 8pm. Which option would you like to try hun? You have got room in your day to make it a little longer? Xx

[Bella89]

Oh, I would love to make our day longer. I know when he falls asleep at 8 he can wake up at 7:30 and that's one happy mamma

We went for a walk today in his stroller and he fell asleep. So I rushed back because it started to rain and tried to move him to his crib. He woke up after 3min nap:( The same mistake I keep making. Thinking I can move him from one place to another when he sleeps. He is just one of thse not movable babies:/ I can try to take him out for his afternoon nap untill he looses it, but I don't want it to become AP either:/
Putting him down for afternoon nap at home is just not working anymore:( I am successful at it 1/3 times. I think I will just keep on trying since it is his quiet time anyways.

Today our day looked like that:
7:10WU
7:30 bottle
8:30 breakfast
11:00 S till 1:30
1:30 bottle
2:30 dinner
4:00 4min nap
4:30 bottle
5:30 solids with milk top up
5:50 bath
6:20 Asleep, he was really tired, but no OT I think
I didn't have time to give him his last bottle at 7, so I wonder if he wakes up from hunger:/ Do I feed him when he wakes up or DF him in this transition? He doean't eat from 7 to 7 anymore.
Do I start a day when he wakes at 5:30?
I think I have a hunch of what's going to happen tomorrow, but don't know what to do:/

Thank you so much for your support. I am doing everything I can here and I feel like I am really trying. I hope it will get better with time.
I hate seeing him tired, fighting with naps (and me) and meowing all day which can drive a person crazy:(I am trying to explain it to myself, but It's still difficult:(

I think I will try to push morning A time since he can extend that nap to 2h already.
If on 1 nap, is that nap suppose to get around 2h?

Thanks!

[Kellyjs]

Did you have a 2.5hr nap in the morning there hun? Just double checking the timings.

I would always feed before BT even if it's a little earlier than usual if you can, especially if you've dropped the DF already, you don't really want to reintroduce it. I'd see how it goes tonight, maybe try a DF when you go to bed just to top him up this once but ideally we don't want it to happen loads.

It's great to see he will fall asleep in the stroller, mine never would. AP can be your friend during these transitions hun, honestly. As long as he goes to sleep independently for his other nap and BT all will be ok.

Perhaps see if you can apop a stroller nap for the time being, even if it is just for 15mins.

Ok, wrt starting at 5.30am. This works just the same as your quiet time hun. I used to try and leave DD as long as possible (as long as she wasn't crying). If she did cry I would ssh her and tell her it's still nighttime until the earliest I was prepared to start the day. For me, that was 6am, but you can choose  . It would be unreasonable for him to do much longer than 12hrs as he went to bed at 6.20pm especially if he did take a long nap in the am too.

If he does wake early tomorrow, how do you feel about a set naps? I would see if he can get as close to 11am and see what that brings. Then I would cap the nap at 1.5hrs and try for another nap at 4 again. He might be tired enough still to take that CN in his bed perhaps? Do a 30mims capped nap and that should get us to a later BT of 7 maybe even 7.15pm. I don't want to stretch the day too much, but hopefully that's a start? Wdyt?

It will get better with time hun, I promise. Fwiw once DD was on one nap it stayed there for well over a year until I had to change something again. And oh, I feel your pain with the whining, I've got that here atm with a 2yo teething!!

Yes, once on one nap we ideally want the nap to be around 2hrs. For some that's too lomg, but I think that'll be about right for yours given his sleep needs in 24hrs. At first it could be a 12-hr day and night, gradually they settle into a 2hr nap and 11hrs ONS, but that is the average ok? Not for everyone. We'll just see what fits yours best xx

 

[Bella89]

Thank you sooooo much:) I have to say, It does feel like you read my mind a little

Yes, his nap was 2.5h.

So I will try to keep him low key until 6:30 tomorrow. Let's hope he will wake up 6 and not 5 ;p
Maybe I can give him bottle next time. Today It was really hard to make it on time. I will know better tomorrow ;]
I think I'd rather DF today than wake 4 with hunger. But I do think he is too old for DF. He wakes up completely if I want to do whatever with him. But, I'll try. He woke up once already. Full stand up with eyes closed:/

Maybe you are right. If the weather will let me I'll do stroller nap tomorrow. He does go to BT and 1 nap quicker now, less standing.

I'll keep you posted!!

[Kellyjs]

That's because I've been there hun, I've felt the exact same things! I messed up the 3-2 royally so made it my mission to get the 2-1 right! Don't think I did, but hey ho  . Yes! Please do keep me posted 

Wow, great nap so if we do cap that first nap to 1.5hrs we can pretty much get an apop'd CN in, then we might be able to put off the transition to one nap for a little while! He is still quite young to go to one nap just yet, although not unheard of, so if we can keep two naps for a couple of months of least it'll help keep OT at bay when he does need to go to one nap.

In either case, what you're doing atm with quiet time is perfect. I did the same. Good luck tonight, I'm sure he will wake for his feed but hopefully will be too tired to realise what happened! Xx

[Bella89]

It's good to hear it's not just us:)

Well, he woke up at 2:30am and didn't sleep until 4, but I think It was his tummy that bothered him. He fell asleep right after poo.WO at 7.

Unfortunatelly It doesn't work like that:/ Even if I cap that first nap it doesn't help. Still fights that afternoon nap.

I just go day by day. Decided to stress less about this. If he is tired I will put him down, if not we can do low key time or stroller walk:)