Thumb sucking

[bambi2]

Hi,
Just started PUPD yesterday with my 7 month baby who had limited routine up to this and well so far I don't know if it's going well or going poorly but I'm sticking with it. I obviously hate seeing my DD crying/wailing/screeching/screaming but I know it's for the greater good 
My question relates to when she's soothing herself...she's started sucking her thumb. I've chatted with my dentist about this before as she tried it when she was getting her first teeth and she said of all things don't let her suck her thumb. I find it very hard to stop her doing it when she is in the throes of PUPD as it's a little comfort for her in her massive upset time, I don't want to be a dragon, but I don't want her to make a habit of it. We tried her with a dummy lots when she was 3-6 months but she never took to it and I know Tracy recommends not introducing it after 6 months....anyone else have experience with this? You're advice is greatly appreciated and gratefully accepted!!

[Kellyjs]

Hi and welcome to the boards 

I'm sorry hun, that's absolutely rubbish. I've worked int he dental industry for over 20yrs so feel I'm qualified to tell you that! Thumb sucking doesn't become an issue wrt teeth until the permanent teeth appear at around age 6-7.

Would you like to post your routine to see if anything stands out? Pu/pd won't be effective if something is a little bit off with the routine. Look forward to hearing from you xx

[jessmum46]

Oh goodness yes embrace the thumb sucking!! Lifesaver here

[ENMS]

I agree with pps! My DD was a thumb sucker and stopped on her 5th birtday! Her teeth moved back within 6 months and now you'd never tell she sucked it for so long!

[bambi2]

Oh great to hear! Regarding our routine we're just following the routine in the third book as new Baby Whisperers, trying to get on track with baby. So up to this we always got dd up at 8:00 so decided that since clocks go back thus weekend to stick with it, so:
8:00 wake, nappy, bf
8:30 dress and play
9:30 solids
9:45 go to bedroom for story and cuddle
10:00 pupd
12:00 REPEAT but with formula
16:00 bottle
16:20 play
17:30 solids
18:00 - 19:00 as much sleep as she'll manage with pupd
20:00 bedtime routine
20:30 bed! With pupd
23:30 df


Last night she had 2 rises before midnight which were easily hushed with voice and hand on back then woke at 3:30 for 30 mins pupd then woke at 6:30 pupd until getting up time of 8!

[Kellyjs]

Ok hun I think the reason you're having problems is that the A time is far too short for her age. See here Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

As you haven't really had a stable routine thus far I would suggest jumping the A time straight to 2hrs 30mins and see if that makes a difference with the length of time you have to pu/pd.

You don't mention how lomg the naps are but I'm presuming they're short as you're trying to fit in a CN which really needs to go at this age. I would also think that's the reason you're having so many problems at BT too.

Ok, to start with let's increase the A times like I mentioned above and we'll need to hold it for at least a couple of days so she gets used to it ok? We will definitely need to increase again to get closer to 3hrs but we'll go nice and slowly. I'm here to hold your hand through it, she may get grumpy close to her usual time of going to sleep but considering you're having so many problems getting her down in the first place I think she'll cope fine.

Keep me posted xx

All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[bambi2]

Thanks for the input kellyjs, we really thought we were doing the right thing. We have the bw books and in the chapter re Starting EASY at 4 months or older bw says to follow the 4 hour EASY routine on page 34. That's what I've been doing. Surely there aren't enough hours in the day to stretch it out to 3 hours?

[bambi2]

Oh and we're just doing pupd for the entire 2 hours or until she's collectively had 1.5 hours if it's a disjointed sleep. This is only day two. Also, I had a very loose routine up to this so she likely could go 3 hours, was just doing as I thought I was supposed to :-/

[Kellyjs]

Don't worry at all hun, that's what we're here for! The book can only cover so much yk? Yes, that routine would be suitable for a 4mo and yours is much older now 

As you can see in that last link I posted, for 3hrs A time, hopefully you'll get 2 good naps and do away with the CN. Early on in the transition that should keep to a 12hr day. Once she settles into it, she may need the. A time stretching again and that's when we look at moving to a 12.5hr or 13hr day, but that's in time ok?

Oh I wouldn't continue to do pu/pd for that long hun, you'll break your poor back! Hopefully with the new A time you won't have to pu/pd for any where near that length of time. Trust me, it will get better. You've done brilliantly so far and set the stage with the pu/pd for her, we just need to get the timing right as well xx

[bambi2]

OK, must run it past the OH so we can be on the same page about it. My back was broke indeed!!! How long am I supposed to do it for? I had understood it was just the entire duration. Her real difficulty has been terribly short naps up to this, making it hard to plan anything in life as "it depends on Baba's form". Supposed to go to a group tomorrow at 10:00 but bw says stay at home for the week... The cupboards are bare!!!
Thanks so much for your input, it really is great. She woke at 6:30 this am and I felt so lost and out on a limb unsupported. Really appreciate this. <3

[Kellyjs]

There's always someone around on here hun at any time of day. If you just want to vent, there's the couch forum where hugs are always given!

I'd try for 15misn max, after that get her up do some low-key A time and try again in 30mins or so (that's if she's refusing to go down for a nap in the first place). If she's waking early from a nap I would again try for 15mins and do a nearly full A time minus 10mins or so and try for another nap again. Does that make sense?

If you want to go to a group hun, I'd just go. I wasted so much time being at home for naps, I feel I really missed out. There's always later that day to try for a decent nap at home and you'll feel so much better for getting out I'm sure.

Many try for the first nap of the day to be at home. Some have schools runs etc and accept the first nap will be short and try for a much longer nap later on in the day. It a case of finding what works for you, your sanity and her. There is a happy medium and we'll find it! Xx

[bambi2]

Lol! That sounds a lot like what we were doing before we undertook EASY! At least I feel like we weren't messing her up altogether. We did go to the group, which was great as she is so sociable!!!
It's so frustrating in the middle of the night when we're trying to get her to sleep and she's just laying awake blinking, not crying but not sleeping... And all I want to do is go asleep. Ordinarily would just leave the room, which would likely cause her to cry, which at least seems to lead to sleep easier...

[Kellyjs]

Nah, I doubt you've messed her up hun, you sound like you've got her best interests at heart. Easy is a flexible routine!

It will get better soon hun, just make sure you're with her when she's crying as it's her way of communicating with you. If she's not crying, I'd leave her to it and hope she falls back to sleep on her own. I know that's easy for me to say out here, as I was the last person to do just that as I constantly was awake if she was awake, but if you can doze it does help with your mood too.

It will get better, just keep repeating that to yourself. We do need to stretch the A times and I think that'll help with the nights too xx

[bambi2]

Continuing to have a bit of bother, think it's mostly my understanding of the routines! So I was trying to increase her Activity time but then the E would fall in the middle of the sleep and she'd wake hungry, or if she didn't wake hungry it works just throw off her feeds for the day anyway... Any advice?!

[Kellyjs]

Once the A times start to increase, we have to be a bit creative with the E times. So can be EASAE or similar.

If the. E times falls in the middle of a S, I'd consider doing a top up feed 15mins before the nap is due. Then quick A like changing a nappy or a book and off to bed xx