pre-BT wake time for 4 MO?

[Swannie]

Hi All:
I posted recently on the naps board (the usual complaint of short naps).  No improvement at all but I have given up and just hoping it will pass eventually.

Now DD2 is in a the full-fledged 4 month sleep regression.  Waking every 2 hours at night (I only feed twice, other times are pat-shh or variation).

My question now is how to deal with the A time before bed.  Because her naps are so short the third nap often ends sometime around 4 or 4:30pm.  This is too far away from a 7:30pm BT, so I often APOP a ten minute stroller or carrier nap 2hr after the wake up from nap 3.  Now I am wondering if this is making our night issues worse?

Any thoughts?  The sleep right now is so horrendous that I am not expecting any miracles.....

[jessmum46]

I'd do an early bedtime around 6.30 in preference to a 4th nap at this age.  Have you got a routine post going somewhere?  Did you want to post here and see if some different eyes could help?

[Swannie]

The routine fell apart because of illness and immunizations, and now we appear to be having phase 2 of the four month growth spurt.  Once things (hopefully) even out in the new few days, I will post the routine.

[jessmum46]

Will look forward to seeing it

[Swannie]

Hi.  We have a bit of coherence as far as a routine now, a bit.  As you will see, there are some inconsistencies, but we are trying our best...

DD2 is 4.5 months, very active and spirited.  I am seeking advice on the following:

-how to drop that 4th nap? Or at least get it so that it can be in the stroller and end by 4:45 or 5 when I want to be picking up DD1 at daycare...)
-how to get back to only 2 NFs (we were good until the 4 months sleep regression started)
-what is the longest that DD2 should be awake between the last nap and BT
-any other tips that may help us to get more sleep...

Wednesday:
6:40: W/U
7:10: E, top-up at 8:10
8:20-9:40: S
10:30: E
11:40-12:15: S
1:30: E
2:00-2:40: S
3:15: E (VERY HUNGRY)
4:45-5:20: S
5:45: E
7:10: E
7: 40: BT
10:30: W/U (pat shh)
12:40: NF
5:00 NF
6:22: W/U

Thursday
6:22: W/U
7:15: E
8:15-9:15: S
10: E
11:30-12:15 S (car, stroller)
1:00: E
2:20-2:55: S
4:00: E
5:20-5:40: S (capped, stroller)
6:00: E
7:15: E
7:30: BT
12:20: NF
3:20: NF
5:45: W/U, soiled diaper....NF because I was too tired to pat shh
7:10: W/U

Friday
7:10: W/U
8: E
9:05-9:40: S
11: E
11:55-12:30: S
1:45: E
2:30-3:05: S
4:15: E
5:05-5:35: S (stroller)
6:30: E
7:30 E
7: 50: BT
10:40: W/U pat shhh for a long time
12:00: NF
3:00: NF
5:15: W/U....tried pat shhh until 6 and then caved and did NF
8:15: W/U (we all felt glorious after this indulgence)

[Swannie]

Thoughts anyone??  It's now deteriorated to 7 NWs.  I am so tired.  The last two days we tried a 7pm BT after three 30 min naps.

[trimbler]

Hey, sorry this seems to have got missed I have a few thoughts, but suspect that things may have changed since you last posted...

Well, fwiw, I think she sounded a bit OT there, with all those short naps. Have you tried reducing the A time after a short nap? Many LOs just get into a frustrating OT cycle after a short nap, as they can't manage a full A time. Actually at this age I decided to just aim for one long nap in the sling each day, since both mine were short-nappers. It helped to reset them a bit and help them catch up, so that they could manage a decent A time before the next nap in the cot. Do you think something like that could work for you?

The other thing with short naps is whether you're trying to resettle them? And if so, what have you tried, and what tends to happen? Does she get to sleep independently?

I noticed that she had a nice first nap on the Wednesday after 1h 40min A time, but they weren't so long on the following days after a longer A time, so perhaps try a little less...but then again we're a couple of weeks on now so hard to guess! Maybe try 1h 45 and see what happens?

As for the 4th nap/EBT, if you have to collect DD1 you may find EBT difficult and need to do the 4th nap so as not to have too long an A to bed, but I'd tend to agree that EBT is likely to work better at this stage. As for how long an A to do before bed, these LOs do seem to vary...mine would need it really short if it was a CN, and many need it a bit less than their A times earlier in the day. But bear in mind, mine were always on the low end for A times, so I do tend to be biased in that direction One thing I found helpful was to try and keep track of the amount of overall sleep in 24h that resulted in a happy settled baby (I know, it may not happen as often as we like...) and then each day I'd look back over it and see how much A time they'd accrued. If they were already headed for their maximum ideal total A time in 24h, I'd go for EBT. If they'd napped well, or even short napped but had short A times and I felt they needed a bit more A, I'd go for a short CN so that they could have a little more A afterwards, iyswim??

As for NFs, she certainly seemed hungry that Wednesday! But I suspect she may be over the GS by now? Hopefully if she can get out of the OT cycle she'll start waking less frequently at night. Tbh 3x NFs isn't so unusual at this age, and it's hard if you've been trying to resettle for ages as they might be genuinely hungry by then anyway from having been awake for so long. So I guess I'm hoping that the NFs will sort themselves out once the OT cycle is broken...what do you think?

Sorry, I realise much of this may be out of date now, do update us and we'll do our best not to miss you again

[jessmum46]

Dropping by with hugs and many apologies, thanks to Trimbler for catching this.  Fell off my replies list somehow great advice from Trimbler and I hope you can let us know how you are getting on x

[Swannie]

Thanks. Here is my update.  She can now handle a longer A time before BT, so we don't need to resort to the "emergency" fourth nap very often. I think we are finally out of the 30-min nap cycle, but the nights are still very restless and she only does one "long" nap a day (the first one).  This was yesterday:

7:45am: W/U
9:45-11: S
1:15-2: S
4:00-45: S
7:05: put in crib for BT...she rolled around, squealed, blew bubbles and occasionally fussed until 7:30
12:20am: NF
2:50-4:45am: AWAKE! I offered another NF somewhere within the first 40 minutes. She didn't take very much.  She then alternated between playing, chatting, and crying during this 2 hours of nonsense.  We share a room.....
7:15am: W/U

(and she started her first nap just now at 9:15am)

I didn't write her feeds because they were quite irregular yesterday.  She'd get distracted and stop eating...and then an hour later be ravenous.  She seems to be getting enough during the day though and almost seems ready to drop the second night feed, if I wasn't using it out of desperation.....

She turned 5 months yesterday.  She has been falling asleep independently since age 3 months...and I am still waiting to reap the benefits of that....

If anyone has thoughts on how to get the second nap to be longer and, more importantly, the nights to be less ridiculous, please speak!  We've been in this "regression" for a month now.....

[trimbler]

What's she like when she wakes from the second nap? Does she seem like she really needs more sleep, or just like she's ready to get up? Do you try to resettle? Tbh at this age I cheated on the second nap as I had to be out for preschool collection so she had it in the sling, and I'd get a long/resettled one like that

I'd guess she was OT by BT yesterday, and that's why she had that long nw. You may need to reduce the next A after a short nap, or do EBT or something. But let's focus on the positive - the great first nap so you know what sort of A time to aim for there, that's a great place to start from now you can try pulling back to 2h or pushing for longer for the second A until you find what works... Hmm... I'm going to guess you need to push, fwiw

[Swannie]

Ok, thanks.  I had guessed that she was UT at bedtime since she played around so much before sleeping....but OT would explain that ridiculously long NW.

Should I try to aim for a 2.5 hour A time before nap 2 today?

Oh, and I have tried resettling off and on for the past two months.  It has only worked a handful of times and that was when she was sick.  She is too easily stimulated so I am best to just stay out of her sight until it is clear that she is not going back to sleep.  The odd time she will wake at 45 min and then go back to sleep within the same nap.  This is rare though.  She usually wakes up and is ready for action!

If we APOP a stroller or carrier nap she wakes at the 30 min mark.  So a crib nap is better, unless I need to be out.

And thanks for reminding me to focus on the positive.  We have nap 1 figured out!

[Swannie]

Update: Nap 1 was 2 hours!  Amazing.

I did a second A time of 2hr20 min and got a 30 min nap.    I guess I pushed it too far.

Next A time will be 2 hours or less..and hopefully nap 3 will be at least 45 minutes!

[trimbler]

Sorry not to have got to you earlier. I expect the long first nap was partly catching up from the night, so 2h 20 might have just been too long, as you say. Btw the advice to push was a complete guess, it may be that you need to reduce the second A instead, really hard to know from a distance, I'd just say keep tweaking and see what happens, eventually you'll hit on something but don't necessarily expect it to be consistent every day. Also bear in mind that things like over-stimulation can come into play and cause short naps too.

[Swannie]

It's a puzzle!  Today nap 1 was 45 minutes, after a 2hr A time.  Nap 2 was 1hr10 min.  Nap 3 was 45 minutes.  BT was 7pm.

For the past week she has been waking 1hr45 min after going to bed.  She is trying to "crawl" and rolling all over the place until her arms gets stuck or she reaches the top of the crib and has no more room to move.  Sometimes it takes awhile to help her settle down..and sometimes I actually have to gently hold her body in place so she will stop moving and relax and go back to sleep. This happens during the night too.  She still wakes up a minimum of 4 times per night.  Is there anything I can do, or just wait it out?  I don't expect she will actually be able to crawl for at least a month.

[Swannie]

She woke every two hours all night (with NFs at 11:30 and 3:30).  After waking at 5:45am, she was up for the day, despite our best efforts.

This regression has been going on for 5 weeks now and I'm starting to feel hopeless.

[trimbler]

(((Hugs))) it does sound a lot like a developmental spurt interfering with sleep, but I know it's almost impossible to enjoy these developments when you're feeling so sleep deprived! Has this trying to crawl been going on for five weeks? Or do you think there have been several things one after another interfering with her sleep?

Any time you want to post your EASY routine (more helpful than just the nap lengths and BT, for getting the whole picture) then feel free to do so here, and we'll have another think...

[Swannie]

Thanks.  Yesterday was a great nap day, but still a rough night.  We have moved her to the playpen temporarily, so that she wont keep banging her little head on the crib rails and getting her wee, chubby arm stuck.  It seemed to really work for the naps and I was hopeful for the night, but she still woke every 2.5 hours.

Here is my memory of yesterday:

5:45am: W/U (ouch!)  (tried shh patt, etc but gave up at 6:45am)
7:00: E
7:45: E (top-up...she seems to always eat this way in the morning)
8-9:30am: S  (crib)
10 and 11: E (again, she has been clustering her a.m. feeds and that seems to be working for us..)
11:25: put in playpen for nap attempt....crying, etc and then asleep at 11:45-12:30- woke up happy and chatting.
1:30: E
2:20-4:20: S in playpen (insert victory dance here!)
4:30: E
6:30: E
6:40: BT (tried to do this earlier, but had toddler issues...)
9:10: W/U (pat shh, singing, etc until 9:30)
12:00: W/U, NF
2:40: W/U....offered NF, she refused, so I held her for a bit and then back in crib
3:10: W/U, NF (full)
7:00: W/U for day  (this last stretch of sleep was an improvement!)

Since she had great naps yesterday, I am still puzzled as to which she woke so much at night.

On another note, she is now sleeping in our dining room, which I have converted to a nursery with the playpen, rocking chair, black out blinds (a towel) and white noise.  I know Tracy says in her book that it is disrespectful to have your baby sleep in a common area, but I am losing it a little bit and need to get more sleep.  We also cease all activity in the area when she is sleeping.  The goal is to move her to share with her sister once her nightwakings improve to just a feed or two.

[Swannie]

Quick update: Nap 1 was 2hr20 min in her crib!  Now I am rethinking the playpen...

[trimbler]

(((Hugs))) for last night, but wow on the naps What was she doing during the NWs? Trying to crawl? Screaming? Fidgeting? Chatting?

[Swannie]

During the nightwakings she was crying and fussing at first.  Once she was responded to, she calmed down and then was chatting and looking around.  When she is in her crib for the NWs she is usually trying to crawl and then crumpling into the crib rails and getting angry.

Nap 2 in the playpen today was 35 minutes.  She's discovered that she can move around a lot in there too.  Not worth it, so I am bringing her back in the crib with me tonight.  Just trying to find something that works.  She did wake up from that nap chatty and happy, so I don't feel too terrible about moving her sleeping space so much...

Oh, and to answer an earlier question about whether the crawling attempts started 5 weeks ago...I can't fully remember but it has been going on for awhile.  She was not a great sleeper from the start.  We did sleep training at 3 months, but this was also the time that she was attempting to roll.  That led to two weeks of really rough nights, despite the ability to self-soothe.  Then at 3.5 months she rolled over and discovered the magic of tummy sleeping.  We had two weeks of good sleeps, with just 2 NFs and no misc wake-ups.  Then at 4 months she got sick, had her shots and then started trying the inchworm crawling.  We've had 5 weeks of minimum 4 wake ups a night and oftentimes more.

Hopefully these good naps are a sign that she may be turning a corner before I lose it....

[trimbler]

Hope so Sounds like you have a mobile one there That will play havoc with sleep, but once she's stopped feeling the need to practise at night, hopefully that will improve... Is she in a sleeping bag? It's good that she's so flexible with where she sleeps Keep us posted and we'll let you know if we think of anything else...

[Swannie]

Yes, she is in a sleeping bag.  It doesn't stop her from moving all over the place like a flash of light. No improvements last night.  I hope this gets better soon.  I'll give an update in a few days, and hopefully it will be a good one...

[trimbler]

Oh dear I hope so too...it will pass of course, eventually But do keep us posted, (((hugs)))

I'm sorry can't remember if we already discussed possible push in A times at 4mo? Will often manifest as short naps, but it's possible that if the naps are good then it could cause NWs if the A times are too short... Don't forget there's a large variation in A times between different LOs of the same age, mine were always on the short side but yours could need longer... But you know her best, what do you think?

[Swannie]

I'm back already....need advice regarding A times, as I think Trimbler may have been onto something.  Am wondering if nightwakings are from UT.  Here is the last two days.

Wed:
6:45: W/U
7:30 and 8:15: E
8:50-10:10: S
11:20: E
12:10-12:50: S
2:20: E
2:55-5:05!: S
5:20: E
6:30: E
7:10: E (I know, that was a lot of feeds in a short time)
7:25:S for BT
8:00-9:00: NW, Awake
11: NW
1:20: NF
6:50: W/U - A five hour stretch of sleep!!  the longest in the past 5 weeks.  I though we had turned a corner, but then.....

Thursday:
6:50: W/U
7:15 and 8:15: E
8:50-10:30: S
11 and 12: E
12:45-2:05: S
3:00: E
4:15-5:00: S
6: E
7: E
7:15: S for BT
8:30: NW, arm caught in rail of crib...
10-12: awake off and on for 2 hours, some fussing, chatting, playing
2:00: NF
4:00: NW, I sang from the bed and she went back to sleep
7:00 W/U

Now that she has sorted out her naps quite nicely, I'd like to tackle these silly nights!  Should I give her more A time in between naps, or before BT?  She doesn't seem very tired in the evening but I was trying to prevent OT, as I thought that was causing problems a few weeks ago...but that was when she was napping 30 minutes. 

She is now 5 months and 1 week old.  A big puzzle!

[trimbler]

Ooh it's difficult, isn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if she needed an A time stretch - how long has she been on ~3h? So I noticed that on the Wednesday she did roughly 2h each A time except longer before BT, even after the short midday nap, after which she managed a lovely long nap which didn't seem OT. I almost wonder if she treated her BT that day like a CN? Doesn't sound like it was an OT WU. Perhaps she was showing you that she needs just a little more A time in the day? Actually, adding up the A time that day, including the 1h nw between 8-9pm gives us 9h 20 mins, which sounds pretty reasonable to me, what do you think? So perhaps you gradually need to move about an hour's A time from the evening/night into the daytime? Then on the Thursday she had 8h 40mins A time during the day which maybe wasn't quite enough and then she had that horrible 2h nw (((hugs))) during which I expect she wound herself up and got a second wind etc and probably ended up OT which sent the rest of the night off?? Of course there's not much you can do about arms through crib bars

So...how to add more A time during the day! Do you think you could push the first A time just a little? She seemed to do well with 15mins extra on the second A time on Thursday, of course I don't know what happened since then but if you've held it at 2h 15mins then perhaps you could now push out the first one too? Bear in mind that many LOs (but not mine ) are on 3h A time and dropping down to 2 naps by 6mo, so 2h is on the short side for 5mo. I'd try 15mins on the first nap, hold it there for a few days and then try a 15min push later on in the day, depending on how she's coping and what the naps are doing. Think of trying to push her eventually to 2x 2h naps plus a CN of whatever length works, which will in time get shorter and disappear. How does that sound to you?

[Swannie]

Thanks so much for taking the time to review this and give it detailed consideration.  I really appreciate it.  I am just reading it now, after already putting her down for nap 1 after A of 2hr5min.  So, I will need to wait until tomorrow to implement your plan....although I can try to push her second A a bit today and see how it goes.  She has still been waking every two hours at night.  The good news is that despite these many NWs she is only taking one NF and it's fairly minimal (....gives me hope that when we sort out these NWs it will be fairly easily to eventually drop the final NF).

I will try pushing the A times and see how it goes.

Thanks!

[trimbler]

You're welcome, I can't promise to get it right of course, but I can hold your hand whilst we work it out together Just don't push too many A times all at once, take it slowly and see how she responds. And yes I wouldn't worry about that nf, she's still young

[Swannie]

Yesterday I gently pushed the A times.  She still had many NWs, but all were very short.  She keeps banging her little head on the rails and waking herself up every 1.5-2h, and each time she wanted to go back to sleep (ie no chatting or prolonged crying).  I am considering using the forbidden bumper pads if it doesn't get better by the end of the week after I gently tweak her schedule.

This morning I was able to push her first A time to 2h15.  I'll keep you posted.  Thanks again!

[trimbler]

Well done, sounds like heading in the right direction...?

[Swannie]

Unfortunately, we have another set-back: she's sick with a cold. The night was predictably rough and nap 1 was 30 minutes.  Hopefully she will get better quickly.

[trimbler]

Oh no, (((hugs))) colds are so frustrating hope she gets better soon! You've tried saline nasal drops/spray, nasal aspirator, paracetamol, etc, etc? She'll likely need more sleep than usual and you may need to return to your previous A times and let her sleep as long as she wants, depending on how bad the cold is and how sleepy she is or how had the nights are... On the positive side, she'll be building up her immune system

[Swannie]

She's better now and sleeping much better too. She still wakes up a couple of extra times besides her one NF, but it is much better.  Except for the other night, when she was up from 11pm-1am!  I think she got too much daytime sleep that day. 

We are now in the awkward 3-2 transition.  Her wake times are easily 2.5 hours, more before BT if she is on a two nap day.  She sometimes takes two long naps and thus doesn't need a third nap, but then she ends up getting too much daytime sleep.  Yesterday she slept 1.75, 0.50 and a 20 minute stroller catnap and then had a great night (asleep at 7:45, W/U at 11 for a quick PU/PD and NF at 2:20, up for the day at 7).  The day before she napped 1.25 and 2.5 and then had that crazy long NW, as well as other NWs.

My question now is, when should I cap a nap? At first I was aiming to lengthen them so we could eliminate the third but that seemed to lead to rough nights.  If I don't interfere with her naps, they seem to wildly vary on their own anyways.  She always has the same temperament (happy!) regardless of how much sleep she has gotten, day or night.  This makes it tough for me to know whether she is getting too much or too little sleep.

She is now 5 months and 2 weeks old. 

[trimbler]

Yay for getting better and improving sleep Transitions are never simple Would you like to post a few recent days, both 2 nap and 3 nap days, so I can hunt for clues?

[Swannie]

Thanks!  It is nice to get some consolidated sleep myself....it has been a long six months!

Wednesday

6:55am: W/U
7:40 and 8:40: E
9:35-11:20: S
12:15 and 1:15: E
1:55-3:30: S
4:15: E
5:45: E
6:45: E for BT
7: BT S
1am-2am: NF and awake chatting for this entire hour
7:10: W/U

Thursday
7:10: W/U
9:50-11:05: S
1:45-3:05: S
5:05-5:20: S in stroller on way to pick up DD1
7:35 in crib for BT....chatted herself to sleep at 7:55
1am: NF
5:55am: awake but I wasn't ready so I fed her...
6:30am: W/U

Friday

I just put her down for nap 1 at 9 and she woke after 40 min....I can hear her chatting up there as I write this.  I didn't do the usual 2hr40 bc I was worried of OT from early waking...but she has proven me wrong.

In other news, we are starting solids tomorrow.  She is 5mo3w and weighs a hefty 8.38kg.  She's been EBF so far.  I don't think it is at all related to sleep, but she has a multicystic kidney [] and takes preventative antibiotics once per day.

Any advice on the 3-2 transition would be helpful.  When should I been capping naps?  I haven't done it yet.  Her day sleep has been inconsistent so far.  If she has a 12 hour night there is usually a long NW.  Last night was essentially a 10 hour night but with no long NW.  I think I prefer the latter.  I think she is LSN?

[trimbler]

She seems to be doing ok on 2h 40min A time, but I think she could manage a bit more now, so why not start by pushing that first A time a bit, to whatever you're both comfortable with, how about 2h 50 for starters? Leave the others as they are for the time being, until she's used to the longer first A time. You'll need to work towards 3h in order to move to 2 naps completely, I wouldn't worry about capping either of the first two naps for now, just the third. Anyway, this sticky here says it all much better than I would All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[Swannie]

I'm back to report that she is still sleeping poorly at night, no matter what we do!  At nearly six months old, she is now eight weeks into the "4 month" sleep regression and I am starting to think that maybe she will never sleep well!  As of yesterday she is on 3h A times and seemed to handle it very well.  Her naps have been fabulous.  It is the nights that are rough. She will be six months this Saturday.  I will post the last few days, but I do have a new question about fitting in solids.  I am doing once per day (just tastes really), one hour after the first milk feed.  She does need a top-up milk feed during each A time since her A times are long now and the milk feed wont last until the end of the nap and A time combined.  The result is that the morning has become a bit of a buffet.  Is that ok?  Eventually, once she takes more solids in a couple of months I can eliminate these top-ups.  I tried eliminating the first top-up on one day and that night she was ravenous at 11:20pm and needed a second NF, which is rare.

Saturday ( i didn't write down our feeds.  We started solids this day, tiny amounts)

6:30 W/U
9:10-10:25 S
1:10-3:30 S
6:30 BT
7:10 NW (gas)
12:15 NF
4-5:15 awake (I think I fed her at 5 but I can't remember)
7:15 WU

Sunday

7:15 W/U
8: E
9: solids
10:05-11:10 S
11:30: E
(forgot to write the remaining feeds down)
1:45-2:40 S
4:40-5:10 S (stroller)
7:45 BT
9:40 NW
11:20 NF
3:30 NF
4:30 NW
6:00 NW
6:45 NW
8:40 W/U (we were all at our wit's end, hence the sleep in)

Monday

8:40 W/U
8:45 E
9:45 solids
10:10 E (top-up)
11:30-12:55 S
1:20 E (small)
3:00 E (big)
3:40-5:05 S
6:00 E
7:40 E
8:05 BT
10:30 NW
2:00 NF
?? a few misc NWs, I didn't need to get out of bed
6:30 NW
7:30 W/U

Tuesday

7:30 W/U
7:45 E
8:50 solids
9:50 E (top-up)
10:30-1:00 S (!)
1:10: E offered, she was too distracted
2:30 E
3:55-4:55 S
5:30 E
7:30E
7:55 BT
9:20 NW
12:00 NF
4:15-5:20 awake (mostly chatting, some fussing)
6:30 W/U

Is there anything I can do to eliminate some of these nightwakings, especially the hour-long ones?  We were hoping to move her into DD1's room soon.  And I am more than ready to get more sleep myself..

[trimbler]

Hugs it's hard when nights aren't good, isn't it We still haven't moved our DD in with DS Just wondered what happens during the NWs? Is she really upset, is she easily resettled, for those NWs where you've just given one time rather than an interval, does she to back to sleep very quickly? Do you think there's discomfort? I particularly suspect that on Sunday night with all those NWs Some LOs can get uncomfortable even with just a little solids at first - what has she had so far? I also can't help wondering whether the 3h A to BT is a little too much at the moment, looking at the evening NWs on those days with the EWs which she was able to resettle from. Perhaps try 2h45 or something like that?

As for your eating question, how about offering the milk top up alongside the solids? In whichever order seems best to you. The solids don't have to be exactly one hour after the milk, you could bring them later and bring the milk top up earlier so that they happen at the same time, iyswim. Wdyt?

[Swannie]

Thanks for your input.  I have sorted out the top-ups and it seems to be working fine, although now she is consistently doing two NFs again instead of one.  She goes back to sleep fairly easily and seems genuinely hungry so I think she needs it.  We have had fewer marathon NWs over the past few days but there are still multiple extra NWs beyond the NFs.  She sometimes chats, fusses or cries.  Sometimes I don't need to do anything and I think if we weren't sharing a room I wouldn't even notice.  But for some NWs she definitely needs some help... I do also think there is some discomfort, possibly from teething.  She does seem to be handling the longer A before bedtime now, as evening NWs are becoming more rare.  She does tend to have one about 2.5-3 hours after going to bed, but will often settle on her own or without a feed.

As for solids, she has had lentils, broccoli, and yam, but all in very small amounts.

I don't really know what else to do, other than wait and hopefully her sleep will sort itself out.  Sigh.

[trimbler]

She's around 6mo now isn't she? Hopefully just the 6mo GS

Sounds like things are on the up? Of course you still get disturbed as you're in the same room - I can't remember if you use white noise? It really helps us, we didn't use it with DS and couldn't get him out of our room quickly enough at 6mo But we still have DD in with us as I just can't bear to make DS sleep deprived by moving her in with him, but I no longer wake to all the little noises as the white noise really does help - also helps her not to wake to our sleeping noises too Well done for realising when you don't need to respond I wonder what those NWs are like? Sometimes it's hard to tell how awake they actually are, I mean they can make all sorts of noises in their sleep, especially when they're dreaming. And between sleep cycles they (and we) will always wake up to some extent, the question is how quickly they get back off again, if it's just a couple of minutes even, it's not really a big deal, except of course if it wakes you and then you take ages to get back off Those kinds of NWs can be a pointer for things like OT if they happen in the early evening, but if you don't need to do anything to help her then you could see then as a sign that she's getting better at settling herself

Sorry I'm being rambly and disjointed but a couple of other thoughts - lentils and broccoli can be tricky for tiny tummies, tending to make them a bit gassy, so watch out for that. I think the yam you've offered might be what we call 'sweet potato' over here, and seems to be a more usual first food. The other thing was try to make sure that she doesn't replace any of her daytime milk intake with solids, as the milk will be more calorific and she still needs the same amount. It doesn't sound like that's happening with you, but just to bear in mind... Sorry gotta go but keep updating and we'll keep walking with you, it does sounds like some progress might be happening, but for the discomfort/GS, wdyt?