pre-BT wake time for 4 MO?

[trimbler]

Oh no, (((hugs))) colds are so frustrating hope she gets better soon! You've tried saline nasal drops/spray, nasal aspirator, paracetamol, etc, etc? She'll likely need more sleep than usual and you may need to return to your previous A times and let her sleep as long as she wants, depending on how bad the cold is and how sleepy she is or how had the nights are... On the positive side, she'll be building up her immune system

[Swannie]

She's better now and sleeping much better too. She still wakes up a couple of extra times besides her one NF, but it is much better.  Except for the other night, when she was up from 11pm-1am!  I think she got too much daytime sleep that day. 

We are now in the awkward 3-2 transition.  Her wake times are easily 2.5 hours, more before BT if she is on a two nap day.  She sometimes takes two long naps and thus doesn't need a third nap, but then she ends up getting too much daytime sleep.  Yesterday she slept 1.75, 0.50 and a 20 minute stroller catnap and then had a great night (asleep at 7:45, W/U at 11 for a quick PU/PD and NF at 2:20, up for the day at 7).  The day before she napped 1.25 and 2.5 and then had that crazy long NW, as well as other NWs.

My question now is, when should I cap a nap? At first I was aiming to lengthen them so we could eliminate the third but that seemed to lead to rough nights.  If I don't interfere with her naps, they seem to wildly vary on their own anyways.  She always has the same temperament (happy!) regardless of how much sleep she has gotten, day or night.  This makes it tough for me to know whether she is getting too much or too little sleep.

She is now 5 months and 2 weeks old. 

[trimbler]

Yay for getting better and improving sleep Transitions are never simple Would you like to post a few recent days, both 2 nap and 3 nap days, so I can hunt for clues?

[Swannie]

Thanks!  It is nice to get some consolidated sleep myself....it has been a long six months!

Wednesday

6:55am: W/U
7:40 and 8:40: E
9:35-11:20: S
12:15 and 1:15: E
1:55-3:30: S
4:15: E
5:45: E
6:45: E for BT
7: BT S
1am-2am: NF and awake chatting for this entire hour
7:10: W/U

Thursday
7:10: W/U
9:50-11:05: S
1:45-3:05: S
5:05-5:20: S in stroller on way to pick up DD1
7:35 in crib for BT....chatted herself to sleep at 7:55
1am: NF
5:55am: awake but I wasn't ready so I fed her...
6:30am: W/U

Friday

I just put her down for nap 1 at 9 and she woke after 40 min....I can hear her chatting up there as I write this.  I didn't do the usual 2hr40 bc I was worried of OT from early waking...but she has proven me wrong.

In other news, we are starting solids tomorrow.  She is 5mo3w and weighs a hefty 8.38kg.  She's been EBF so far.  I don't think it is at all related to sleep, but she has a multicystic kidney [] and takes preventative antibiotics once per day.

Any advice on the 3-2 transition would be helpful.  When should I been capping naps?  I haven't done it yet.  Her day sleep has been inconsistent so far.  If she has a 12 hour night there is usually a long NW.  Last night was essentially a 10 hour night but with no long NW.  I think I prefer the latter.  I think she is LSN?

[trimbler]

She seems to be doing ok on 2h 40min A time, but I think she could manage a bit more now, so why not start by pushing that first A time a bit, to whatever you're both comfortable with, how about 2h 50 for starters? Leave the others as they are for the time being, until she's used to the longer first A time. You'll need to work towards 3h in order to move to 2 naps completely, I wouldn't worry about capping either of the first two naps for now, just the third. Anyway, this sticky here says it all much better than I would All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[Swannie]

I'm back to report that she is still sleeping poorly at night, no matter what we do!  At nearly six months old, she is now eight weeks into the "4 month" sleep regression and I am starting to think that maybe she will never sleep well!  As of yesterday she is on 3h A times and seemed to handle it very well.  Her naps have been fabulous.  It is the nights that are rough. She will be six months this Saturday.  I will post the last few days, but I do have a new question about fitting in solids.  I am doing once per day (just tastes really), one hour after the first milk feed.  She does need a top-up milk feed during each A time since her A times are long now and the milk feed wont last until the end of the nap and A time combined.  The result is that the morning has become a bit of a buffet.  Is that ok?  Eventually, once she takes more solids in a couple of months I can eliminate these top-ups.  I tried eliminating the first top-up on one day and that night she was ravenous at 11:20pm and needed a second NF, which is rare.

Saturday ( i didn't write down our feeds.  We started solids this day, tiny amounts)

6:30 W/U
9:10-10:25 S
1:10-3:30 S
6:30 BT
7:10 NW (gas)
12:15 NF
4-5:15 awake (I think I fed her at 5 but I can't remember)
7:15 WU

Sunday

7:15 W/U
8: E
9: solids
10:05-11:10 S
11:30: E
(forgot to write the remaining feeds down)
1:45-2:40 S
4:40-5:10 S (stroller)
7:45 BT
9:40 NW
11:20 NF
3:30 NF
4:30 NW
6:00 NW
6:45 NW
8:40 W/U (we were all at our wit's end, hence the sleep in)

Monday

8:40 W/U
8:45 E
9:45 solids
10:10 E (top-up)
11:30-12:55 S
1:20 E (small)
3:00 E (big)
3:40-5:05 S
6:00 E
7:40 E
8:05 BT
10:30 NW
2:00 NF
?? a few misc NWs, I didn't need to get out of bed
6:30 NW
7:30 W/U

Tuesday

7:30 W/U
7:45 E
8:50 solids
9:50 E (top-up)
10:30-1:00 S (!)
1:10: E offered, she was too distracted
2:30 E
3:55-4:55 S
5:30 E
7:30E
7:55 BT
9:20 NW
12:00 NF
4:15-5:20 awake (mostly chatting, some fussing)
6:30 W/U

Is there anything I can do to eliminate some of these nightwakings, especially the hour-long ones?  We were hoping to move her into DD1's room soon.  And I am more than ready to get more sleep myself..

[trimbler]

Hugs it's hard when nights aren't good, isn't it We still haven't moved our DD in with DS Just wondered what happens during the NWs? Is she really upset, is she easily resettled, for those NWs where you've just given one time rather than an interval, does she to back to sleep very quickly? Do you think there's discomfort? I particularly suspect that on Sunday night with all those NWs Some LOs can get uncomfortable even with just a little solids at first - what has she had so far? I also can't help wondering whether the 3h A to BT is a little too much at the moment, looking at the evening NWs on those days with the EWs which she was able to resettle from. Perhaps try 2h45 or something like that?

As for your eating question, how about offering the milk top up alongside the solids? In whichever order seems best to you. The solids don't have to be exactly one hour after the milk, you could bring them later and bring the milk top up earlier so that they happen at the same time, iyswim. Wdyt?

[Swannie]

Thanks for your input.  I have sorted out the top-ups and it seems to be working fine, although now she is consistently doing two NFs again instead of one.  She goes back to sleep fairly easily and seems genuinely hungry so I think she needs it.  We have had fewer marathon NWs over the past few days but there are still multiple extra NWs beyond the NFs.  She sometimes chats, fusses or cries.  Sometimes I don't need to do anything and I think if we weren't sharing a room I wouldn't even notice.  But for some NWs she definitely needs some help... I do also think there is some discomfort, possibly from teething.  She does seem to be handling the longer A before bedtime now, as evening NWs are becoming more rare.  She does tend to have one about 2.5-3 hours after going to bed, but will often settle on her own or without a feed.

As for solids, she has had lentils, broccoli, and yam, but all in very small amounts.

I don't really know what else to do, other than wait and hopefully her sleep will sort itself out.  Sigh.

[trimbler]

She's around 6mo now isn't she? Hopefully just the 6mo GS

Sounds like things are on the up? Of course you still get disturbed as you're in the same room - I can't remember if you use white noise? It really helps us, we didn't use it with DS and couldn't get him out of our room quickly enough at 6mo But we still have DD in with us as I just can't bear to make DS sleep deprived by moving her in with him, but I no longer wake to all the little noises as the white noise really does help - also helps her not to wake to our sleeping noises too Well done for realising when you don't need to respond I wonder what those NWs are like? Sometimes it's hard to tell how awake they actually are, I mean they can make all sorts of noises in their sleep, especially when they're dreaming. And between sleep cycles they (and we) will always wake up to some extent, the question is how quickly they get back off again, if it's just a couple of minutes even, it's not really a big deal, except of course if it wakes you and then you take ages to get back off Those kinds of NWs can be a pointer for things like OT if they happen in the early evening, but if you don't need to do anything to help her then you could see then as a sign that she's getting better at settling herself

Sorry I'm being rambly and disjointed but a couple of other thoughts - lentils and broccoli can be tricky for tiny tummies, tending to make them a bit gassy, so watch out for that. I think the yam you've offered might be what we call 'sweet potato' over here, and seems to be a more usual first food. The other thing was try to make sure that she doesn't replace any of her daytime milk intake with solids, as the milk will be more calorific and she still needs the same amount. It doesn't sound like that's happening with you, but just to bear in mind... Sorry gotta go but keep updating and we'll keep walking with you, it does sounds like some progress might be happening, but for the discomfort/GS, wdyt?