Author Topic: 5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!  (Read 886 times)

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Offline CamillaA

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5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!
« on: October 25, 2015, 14:12:36 pm »
Hi

I have an almost 5 month old girl (will be five months on 1st November). At 3 months she learnt independent sleep (self soothes by sucking her thumb/fingers) and has been going to sleep for naps and BT by herself since then. We have had some issues with 30/45min naps but I seem to have sorted most of those except the 30 min nap has started again for her second nap of the day. She wakes up and is all chatty and cheerful so I leave her until she gets cross that I haven't come in to pick her up and then I start PUPD. I have only been using PUPD for 2 days with her now. When she is crying I pick her up and as soon she calms/stops crying I put her right back down and tell her it's sleepy time (her sleep cue word she knows). On the way down she always starts crying again and i let her cry for a few seconds and pick her up again unless she is doing her mantra cry or trying to roll onto her side and suck her thumb which is how she falls asleep these days. However she can’t seem to be calm enough to relax and keep sucking her thumb as she does at the start of the nap but instead rolls around, gets frustrated (me too haha) and starts crying proper again so I start PUPD. The last two days I have given up after around 40 minutes but today I decided to keep going with PUPD as above. However today this went on for 2 hours till she fell asleep again, so maybe it was all her A time?? Am I supposed to go for that long? When should I give up and take her out of the room? How much A time should I give her at this point considering its only been a 30 or 45 min nap?
My back was killing me today - she may only be coming up 5 months but she is 70cm and nearly 9 kgs!

Here is our EASY from the past few days - night sleep is still a little messy
She is EBF

E: 7:00
A: 7:30
S: 9:00 (usually 2 hour nap, sometimes 1.30)

E: 11:00
A: 11:30
S: 1:00 (here we get the 30 mins sometimes 45 min nap!...used to be 1.30)

E: 2:30 (Have to pick her older sister up from kindergarten at 3 so feed at 2:30)
A: 3:00
S: 4:30 (45min cat nap)

E: 6:00
A: 6:30 Bath/Bed routine
S: 7 OR 7:15 bed time

Bed time is sometimes early in the last two weeks as sometime she has fought her catnap or it has only been 30 mins, not 45
Nights, she wakes 2-3 times. I normally feed her each time as they are not at exactly the same times. First NW is usually between 3.5 and 5.5 hours after bedtime and the second one is sometime between 4:30 and 5:30. This is possibly where I am making a mistake because I am so tired so I take her into my bed and feed her and fall asleep with her there and her and I dose from 5:30 to wake up at 7. Her eyes are closed but she is moving around quite a bit and restless. If she has 3 NW per night the second one is around 3amish and then the third is normally at 6am with the same pattern of fitful sleep.

So one more question: How many NW should she be having at 5mo and EBF. Should I try PUPD and not feed her at the first or last one and only feed once in the night? I get the feeling that she is actually only hungry at one of the feeds as she takes a full feed both sides but the other one(s) she just takes one side. Normally at the first two I feed her and then while she is still awake but sleepy I put her back in her co-sleeper bassinet and tell her its sleepytime and hear her start sucking her thumb back to sleep easily.

Any help or advice on any of the above is welcomed with open (albeit tired) arms!

THANK YOU.

Camilla

Offline lauradj

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Re: 5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2015, 22:06:51 pm »
Hi there!  Usually we recommend PU/PD for 20-30 minutes, after that just get your LO up and going and move on with your day.  With what you're describing, I would suggest an A time push for your LO.  See if she can stay awake for 2hr and 15 mins.  That extra little bit of awake time can make a huge difference.  It was around this time that we started getting some hits and some misses with the CN because Baby is getting ready to drop it.  I ended up capping the CN at 30 minutes, unless naps were really awful that day.   


Offline CamillaA

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Re: 5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 07:57:07 am »
Thank you for your advice. This morning I have pushed her A time to 2hr 15mins and now she is napping. Hopefully this helps her with the second nap.
In regards PUPD, I will limit this to 30 mins but I get the feeling it might not work for her. Hasn't so far for the last 3 days but I will try for a few more days if I need to.

Anyone got any thoughts on my NW questions? What I really want feedback on is how many NW's are needed for a 5mo EBF baby? How many hours should she be able to sleep without needing a feed?


Offline becj86

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Re: 5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2015, 08:17:37 am »
Hi, PUPD is not a suitable method for use when routine is not appropriate for your LO. Given she is an independent sleeper, your issues should resolve with increase in A time. You may get to 2.5hr by 5 months of age before the naps settle again. Average at 6 months is 2:45 to 3hr.

Offline lauradj

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Re: 5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 16:49:09 pm »
Great news with the napping!  Sorry, I forgot to address the NW's.  I think you will find that with the increase in A time, her NW's will diminish if not fade away.  What we all have to really watch for at this age is the balance between day sleep and night sleep.  You want to ensure your LO gets enough naps to keep her happy and rested but not so much sleep that she steals from the night time.  I'd suggest you give the new A time about a week to really take affect and see whether it transfers over to the nights and then if you're still having issues at night, let's hone in on those.  Is she waking at the exact same time every single night?  I'm just wondering whether you think it's hunger or habit?  Lots of EBF babies take longer to sleep through the night because BM is just not as filling.


Offline CamillaA

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Re: 5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2015, 21:04:00 pm »
Firstly, thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post, very appreciated.

Yes today we had great success with both naps after I increased A time to 2 hours 15/20. First nap was 1hr45 and second was 1hr30. Her cat nap she fought so I took her out the room for a while and after 2h45 A time she was ready so I put her in and she had 30mins CN. As we just switched back from daylight savings here in Germany I am also slowly trying to extend her BT so that she hopefully (!!) can get back to a 7am wake up time. So I hope these good naps continue and we are on the right course again.

For the NW's my feeling is that at least one of them is for hunger. Like I said it varies between 2 or 3 per night so when its 3 I know that one of them is just habitual or perhaps I wake her when I go to bed if she is in a light sleep stage. I think I am going to see how the next week goes with the increase in A time and see if that helps it. My pediatrician has of course suggested starting some solids at 5 months but I am not sure if this will end the NW's as I read so much saying it doesn't? I was going to wait to closer to 6 months to start solids. She is a big girl but I do still seem to be satisfying her. I will post on the weekend if the NW's are still messy and seek some advice.


Offline lauradj

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Re: 5mo PUPD, NAPS and NW questions - HELP PLEASE!
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 22:40:29 pm »
Sounds great!  You're clearly in tune with your little girl's needs, so keep up the good work.  Fingers crossed for you!