Sleep issues with 5 month old...help please!!!

[Zoerippingale]

5 month old nap/ sleep issues!
Hi everyone, I have a 5 month old boy, he will nap well during the day but only in his car seat, he sleeps at night in his Moses basket but is always up many times a night. I usually put him to bed asleep, not necessarily fed to sleep but rarely do I put him down awake! He is getting too big for his Moses basket so I tried him in his cot last night and it was a disaster! He was rolling over, getting his arms stuck through the bars, total nightmare and not much sleep at all! I need to get him napping in his cot during the day and sleeping in it at night. I used the baby whisperer techniques with my eldest son but I have been really lazy this time. Any help gratefully recieved xx

I checked the baby whisperer book today and it says to feed him, bath him then put him down, is this the way to do it? I'm sure I always bathed my elder son then gave him his last feed?? Totally willing to try anything.

Over the last week his routine has pretty much been:
6am- wake and breastfeed
6.30-8am-play/activity
8-10am-sleep
10am-breastfeed
10.30am-12pm -play/activity
12-2pm - sleep
2pm-breastfeed
2.30pm-4pm- activity/play
4-5/5.30-sleep
5/5.30- bath
6pm- 7oz bottle
7/7.30 -bed

[Atomic1010]

Hi when I moved my LO from his Moses basket into his cot he wasn't too keen at first so I made a little nest for him using rolled up towels around where he would lay so he felt a bit more snug in it. Obviously I was careful about how i did it to make sure there would be no risk of towels falling on him etc. might be worth a try. If your LO is also being fed to sleep then suggest you try PU/PD to get him napping in cot. We did that with my first son who had similar issues to those you are having and it worked really well just after a few days. I'm sure the other BW ladies who moderate the forum will be able to advise. Good luck!

[Zoerippingale]

Thank you read something about the towels making a horse shoe shape under the sheet? Will give it a try! Have fed him before his bath tonight so will see how it goes!

Thank you

[Kellyjs]

Hi,

Very good advice from the pp, much appreciated as I had DD in her big cot right from early on, so would be unable to advise about that 

What I do notice about your routine is that's a lot of day sleep going on there, would you consider him high sleep needs?

I personally always did bottle after bath, but that's just a preference here. When teeth arrived I just made sure I brushed them afterwards.

Would you mind telling me how he goes to sleep generally? Will he fall asleep independently in his car seat for naps? Obviously the ideal is to get his napping in his cot, and I think the first nap of the day is a good time to try this.

The A times are a little on the low side for a 5mo see the link I post at the end. However if he is high sleep needs, it might be about right considering he's napping for 2hrs first thing.

It is a case of getting his used to the bigger bed, there's not much you can do (except what the pp advised), you'll just have to persevere I'm afraid. Cot bumpers etc aren't recommended, but I'm sure once he's used to the space for nap times the night will get so much better for you hun. Do you want to give it a try and keep me posted? Here to hold your hand xx

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

[Zoerippingale]

Naps during the day I thought were in line with the baby whisperer sleep book? 1.5-2 hours? How much activity time should he have? Again I thought this was in line with the baby whisperer recommendations? X

[Kellyjs]

Yes, 2 x 1.5-2hr lomg naps then a CN for 45mims at the end of the day is what is recommended. 3 x 1.5-2hr naps would be considered high for his age. If you see the link I posted earlier that gives an indication where the A times should be, it is just a guide though, some like more or less xx

[Zoerippingale]

That makes sense, thanks Hun. The A time should include feeding too right?

Thanks for your help

[Kellyjs]

Yes, spot on. A times is everything from eyes open to eyes closed including E and any wind down. Keep us posted  ok? Xx

[Zoerippingale]

Great thank you. Going to try the cat nap today then feed then bath then bed. Any tips what I should do when he wakes at night? Should I feed him or not? Xxx

[Kellyjs]

I would pick maybe two times you're prepared to feed. If his BT is around 7/7.30pm ish I would wait until at least 11pm before feeding and again 4hrs after that. For all others, I would try ssh/pat as pu/pd can be too stimulating for nighttime and not suitable for all bubbas.

Are you familiar with ssh/pat hun? I'll post a link for you to have a read through. Good luck tonight, I have everything crossed for you xx

Ignore the first bit and just look at the bit where it mentions 4-6mo. I found patting was too stimulating for DD, I just modified it with my hand on her shoulder and the sshing, lessened the pressure of my hand when she settled and reduced volume of the sshing too. I still use it now when she wakes at night! It takes time to figure out what will work for your LO. Some like their head being stroked and some just like the pressure of a hand by the side of them on the mattress. Hth xx

Shush-pat - How to

[Zoerippingale]

Thank you so much!! Today he cat napped for 4-4.40, then he was awake, had his last feed at 6 then a bath and into his cot at 7pm. I tried butting his light show on and leaving him but he wasn't happy so I just sat by the cot and shushed till he was sleeping then stayed in the top
 For another 10 mins then put the light show on one more time and left. Fingers crossed!!! Not holding my breath. I won't feed him
Now till 10pm regardless of what happens and then 4 hours from that feed, every other time I will ssshh pat. Thank you for all of your help xx

[Kellyjs]

My pleasure hun, I really hope tonight goes well. Keep me posted.

I'm thinking that last A might be a tad too long after a CN but we'll see how it goes. Keep an eye out for OT NW's after the first sleep cycle or two xx

[Zoerippingale]

So last night was better: wee cat nap at 4, he woke at 4.40, then bottle at 6 then bath then bed at 7. Took just over two hours to settle him to sleep in his cot. He woke at 10.45, 2.45, 4.30 then 6. I didn't feed him at 4.30. What's OT NWs? Over tired night wakening?

Tonight he is cat napping just now and has been since 4.45. Last feed die at 6 so activity time before bed will be less. Should bedtime be earlier? Took 2 hours to get him to sleep initially last night. Into his bed at 7pm, settled a few times but kept waking until he eventually settled at 9.20 xx

[Kellyjs]

Yes that's overtired night wakings. They usual happen in the earlier part of the night.

Hmm, tonight's CN is later isn't it? I would shoot for 2hrs A time then into bed and see how it goes. It might be worse as it is a short A but I'd like to see. Let me know? It'll help us make a plan for the future. Ideally I suppose we should've capped the CN at 30mins, but we'll know for next time after tonight   xx

[Zoerippingale]

Sorry for not replying sooner. So Wednesday night was quite good and last night was even better!! Got him to nap in his cot yesterday afternoon too! So on Wednesday he had a longer than normal cat nap because we were in the car, then bath then feed then bed and was settled within 20-30
Mins of going to bed. I read him his story in his cot which he seemed to enjoy, then put the music of his mobile on but not the movement. Then I left him and went back in when he cried. I did the same last night but it only took about 10 mins.

He is still waking quite a lot during the night but I am trying my best to settle him without milk but he never settles for very long if he hasn't been fed. He sleeps well generally from 7-7.30 till 10.30-11 but then wakens every 2-3 hours x

[Kellyjs]

That's ok hun, its good to hear from you. Especially as things seem to be getting better for you 

Sounds like you're doing great hun. Are you still picking two times where you feed?

I do wonder if it's time to push the A times every so slightly again and reduce that last CN. How much sleep is he having during the day atm? Maybe post yesterday's routine for me to take a peek at? We have trouble with DD around this age when UT was an issue during the day. Either that of it's teething I'm afraid xx

[Zoerippingale]

So on Thursday he was up at 6.30am fed then A time till 9am then nap till 10.30am, Fed then A time
Till 1pm, then napped, in his cot, till 2.30pm, then fed, A time
Till 5pm, cat nap till 5.45, then bath and last feed at 6.30. Bed at 7. He had bits of
Solid food throughout the day but nothing substantial.

Thanks

Zoe

[Kellyjs]

This looks really good hun. Amazing in fact! How's the settling in the cot going?

I do think in time you'll need to prepare yourself for that CN going, but not quite yet as the naps are a good length. I'll give you the link to have a read through so you can watch out for the signs.

Do you feel it's going much better? Xx

All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[Zoerippingale]

I will have a read about the cat naps. He settles quite well in his cot although I usually have to go back in a few times but that's liveable I do feel it's all going a lot better and that has just been a week

[Kellyjs]

Definitely liveable with and much better than it was a week ago! Yay! Do pop back if things start to go a little haywire again ok? Xx

[Zoerippingale]

Will do, thank you so much for all of your help, touch wood it's still
Going well

[Kellyjs]

Everything crossed for you here  xx

[Zoerippingale]

So daytime naps are still better and bedtime routine is still working however nighttime sleeping is horrific baby is up every 1-2 hours pretty much every night he is 6 months and 1 week now, he is getting some solid food now as well as ready milk, he is really active during the day and is very happy in himself. Tonight for example he went to bed at 7pm, slept till 10.30, woke and fed, then slept till 12.30, 3.30 then 5, I tried settling him at 12.30 and 5 without feeding but he was screaming and distressed and I gave in pretty quickly mainly because I hate the thought of him waking my older son and I'm so tired I just need the quickest method of getting him back to sleep
So I can go back to bed what can I do to try and improve it? He is currently in a wonder weeks leap u till around the 3 December and I definately think he is teething now too.

Thanks in advance

Zoe xx

[Kellyjs]

Hi zoe. That definitely sounds like discomfort to me. Perhaps teething as you said. Have you tried medicating with ibuprofen?

Also I'd check the solid foods. Is he eating dinner? It may be that he might be quite windy at night after the solids. I'd always recommend solids in the morning rather than tea time. It's normally easier as we're cooking food then for the rest of the family, I know, however I don't think they're little stomachs get used to it very quickly in the evening. Is he still taking a good amount of milk? Milk first then solids an hour later is the recommendation.

Remember it is a phase and it will pass ok hun? Xx

[Zoerippingale]

Thank you xxx i will try skipping the solids at tea time, he is still having lots of milk and always milk first. Wondered if I should be tweaking g his A time and naps again? X

[Kellyjs]

Hmm I probably wouldn't if teething is an issue hun. I'd wait for that to settle down then it might give us a real indication if the A times need upping again. It's so difficult to tell when they're teething as they get prone to OT anyway that extending might make matters worse. Do pop back in a few days when he's over the worst of the teething, keep a log of your days and we'll take another look ok? Xx

[Zoerippingale]

Ok thanks Hun.

The other issue I am having is that he wakes most mornings for milk at 6ish but the last 3 days he has woken and fed at 6 but then gone back to sleep till 7.30-8, so when do I start his routine from?

[Kellyjs]

I'd start from the 7.30am wu, but that will make your day longer for you? Totally up to you hun. Problem is if you do make him stay awake from 6am, that first A might be a little grumpy! Xx

[Zoerippingale]

That's what I've been doing, thank you signs of teething seem to have stopped although his night time waking are still totally unpredictable, will see how he is over the next few days/nights and let you know.

Thanks again x

[Kellyjs]

Keep me posted hun xx