8 month old suddenly naps too short

[RhoGre]

Ok so he woke now after 30 minutes....I just don't get it..he can't be UT if he is up at 6:00 and only had an hour and 8 minute nap can he? ...he wasn't doing this before the 3:2 transition...he wasn't waking after 30 minutes at all and now it seems like every nap he is waking early and so he isn't sleeping enough during the day...I feel as though I can't help him.....If I get him up now it is just so early.......so frustrating ...... Is this how it is for the next several months? ....it just isn't as easy as it sounds and is there any consistency?  I mean I try each day to get the right times, watch his cues and each day I get it wrong it seems and he suffers...I just feel bad.  Thanks again for the advice and help...I hope it starts to work soon...he is so tired.  Why are is naps shorter? only 1 hour and 8 min...he was consistently doing 1 hour and 20-30 minutes ... now it's barely an hour?  It does make a difference with him.....

[Kellyjs]

Hugs hun, it will get better, I promise. Good thing is you've noticed a tooth coming, that helps a lot. Medicate with ibuprofen as it works so much better than other meds. Runny nose always int  his house too when teething! It is such a tricky time atm, I've found it's only really consistent once they're on one nap and even then external factors can come into play. We just have to roll with what they throw at us. Do remember you're offering him the sleep hun, it's up to him to take it ok? We will figure this out.

30mims can be OT hun, but it can also be UT too at this age. It can be very difficult to tell. Discomfort from the teething could also be a factor too.

1hr 10mins naps can also signal OT for some. I'm wondering if 3hrs 25mins A first thing is too much for him? How about tomorrow we bring that right back to being asleep at 3hrs A? I would actually keep the second A as is for now and let's just work on getting. That first nap back to a decent length xx

[RhoGre]

Hello - same problem today...could 3 hours be too much in the morning?  He went to sleep at 9:30 and has woken up 2 times already...and it is 10:15 - he has never done that.  I am really confused.  He didn't even seem tired but obviously he is right?

[Kellyjs]

Waking up twice in 45mins could definitely be discomfort hun, did you medicate before the nap at all? Xx

[RhoGre]

Hello.  So he fell asleep again for 30 minutes until 11.  I got him up nursed him and then gave him medication...I will check if it is IBP.  So I put him down at 1:00 (2 hours later b/c I figured he was tired and had a rough first nap  (not even an hour total)).  But he was active and trying to stand so I took him out and gave him some more A time and just put him down...a bit of mantra but now quiet.  I hope he sleeps a good nap b/c he needs it. 

I waited 3 hours this morning...he woke at 6:30 and I left at 9:34 ....maybe I should start the wind down 15 minutes earlier?  It is just so confusing...just now he was happy and playing..he doesn't even seem tired or in pain but put him in the bed and he wakes after 30 minutes....I know it will get better but I have to calm down myself....I guess I just don't want other problems to start like night waking...he did wake two times last night but put himself back to sleep that is good I just don't want bad habits.....how do you just roll with it? Any advice for that...thanks for your posts..

[RhoGre]

Thanks for the advice on: I'm giving him the opportunity - He has to take it.  I am going to repeat that to myself.  I just don't want bad habits to form...now he woke again after 30 minutes...sat up and mantra for a few and then got quiet for 10 minutes and then started mantra again.....he is active now sitting up and rolling....he just wasn't doing this...it seems no matter what I do...he is obviously tired...I guess he has to deal with it?  I can't force him to sleep and it's too late in the day for another nap.....he is getting about 12 hours at nights a little less...and barely 11/2 hours during the day for the last few days....I would think this is not enough day sleep.....anyway tomorrow is another day ...... I just have no confidence in what I am doing or reading his signs

[Kellyjs]

You're still getting a good amount of sleep overall hun. 12hrs ONS and 1.5hrs during the day isn't too far off what my DD was having at that age which was 10.5-11hrs ONS and 1 x 1.5hr nap and 1 x 45mims one.

I think teething is still at play here tbh. I also think 2hrs A after a hour long nap still won't be enough. An hour nap is considered restorative so he should be able to go close to the usual A time if a tiny bit less xx

[RhoGre]

Ok...that makes sense...today he woke at 5:40 and I got him at 6:15....put him down at 8:20 and slept for 45 then woke but did mantra and then quiet and then woke again...he is doing mantra now but I am doing to get him up.

Do I try to put him back to sleep or just get up even if short nap?  I have not had to do PUPD w/ him...so I don't want to start going in and staying with him and doing PUPD b/c he wont know what I am doing...I have tried to stay w/ him a few times and he gets very distracted and won't sleep...most of the time he wakes and does mantra b/c he can do it on his own and I just get him if he is upset...but am I teaching him to sleep short naps?  I don't want to start changing the rules on him.....you know?

Thanks

[RhoGre]

So I don't get why he wakes and then sleeps an extra 10 and then can't stay asleep.  Today he woke at 6:20 and I put him down at 8:54...about 2.75 hours later and he fell right asleep no problem...but woke one cycle later and then slept another 6-10 minutes and now is just mantra noises in bed..not upset....but if I wait 3 hours...too long and we get the short naps....Yesterday was the same thing and the afternoon nap was 30 minutes wake and then 30 minutes....not the best....so frustrating b/c I never know what to do...it feels like a guessing game everyday and it is hard to plan what to do with him and my toddler....if he wakes early the whole day changes....I know I have to go with it but I never know what to expect.....

[RhoGre]

am I teaching him short naps if I get him up early?  I don't want to teach him he only has to sleep for a short time but again....staying in there is no good...it turns into a game...I pat him...he looks up and rolls..I roll him and it goes on and on and there is no hope of sleep..he really either does it on his own or not but lately....he isn't doing it for some reason.......

[trimbler]

Hey there, I'm sorry I don't have much time now but have read through your posts and can offer (((hugs))), fresh eyes and a few initial thoughts

Have you considered fixing the time of the first nap? So, say, get him up at 6.30am even if he woke earlier or you have to wake him, then perhaps try to make the first A time as low-key as you can, aiming for asleep at 9.30. We had some success (still do) going out even for a small errand just before, be home around 10mins before the desired sleep time, or whatever you think would work. Hopefully his body clock may start to realise what to do... If that seems too long, try nap at 9.25, or even 9.20 - mine would be quite sensitive to 5min changes!

Try considering that down time in the cot when he's awake but relatively calm, as worth half A time - so if he plays around in his cot for 30mins, trying but failing to get back to sleep, then consider it as 15mins A time - so if for example you want to aim for 3h for the next A time, then he'll need to be up another 2h45 from when you get him up, or 3h15 from when he actually woke, iyswim? If you feel he would do 3h after a good nap but want to shorten it after a bad nap, perhaps you'd aim for an effective A time of 2h45 instead, which, with the 30mins down time in cot, would mean an extra 2h30 after getting up, or 3h after he actually woke. Does that make sense?

Have to dash, wanted to insert sticky on wi/wo for you, remind me if I forget!

[RhoGre]

Thank you - I can try that...it is so inconsistent...His first nap seems to work best at about 2 hours later...anything more he is too overtired...but he had a good morning nap and then slept one cycle and tried to sleep for a bit w/ mantra and then can't do it but clearly he is tired and now it's a long wake time until bed and he can do that very well....oh well...it actually seems impossible right now and I am just so baffled that he was doing so well and I really do not change anything and now he is inconsistent and not sleeping during the day as well and clearly he needs it....he is waking at night now but is putting himself back to sleep but again clearly over tired......I do not know what to do and I don't want to keep playing with times b/c I tired to keep him up longer and he was a wreck.....I am doing about 2.5 hours in the morning b/c some of that time is calm in the bed before I get him and then about 3 between the naps....If I push him I get 30 minute segments .....it's a bit hard to read him.......

I'll keep working on it but it doesn't seem as easy as the book makes it seem....he has been on EASY his whole life and I am extending the times and doing what I can.....I may try a cat nap today b/c how can he go from 127 to 630 for bed?   but he woke at 9:37 (put him down at 8:23 b/c he was up at 5:40 and then slept from 6-610) for first nap and then I put him down at 1245 for nap b/c he was cranky.....then he doesn't sleep.....what can I do?  He just wasn't doing this before...it's frustrating....I am going to try the wake to sleep .....How long does it take to get back to a routine?  All the examples in the book are examples of very extreme cases which is not my case.......

[trimbler]

I was just thinking that the Saturday before last (?) he did a great first nap on 3h low-key A time, so we know he can do it - but was that an exception? I know some people prefer to work with fixed A times and I preferred to have fixed 'get up' times (since you can't really fix actual WU), at least the first nap was fixed here due to preschool run. But either way I think you'll probably need to try and fix something - you choose which. So either just go and get him up when he wakes in the morning and start the fixed A time then, or let him chatter or whatever until your decided 'up' time and fix the first nap. He often seems to wake around 6.30 so I just suggested that as a start, but perhaps you'd prefer to start having a fixed first nap at 9 or 9.15 rather than 9.30, if you're worried about OT when he wakes much earlier? You could then push that forward gradually over time. Use the 'half A time' rule to gauge what his 'effective' A times between naps have been over the last few days if you can, that might be a better measure to use rather than the actual times between waking and sleeping, you might begin to see patterns... Just trying to give you a new approach to try, if you want to

I know it's hard when they seem to be doing great on one thing and then suddenly it changes and you don't know why - they do just change, because they're growing and developing all the time, but it does get a bit easier when there are fewer naps, and things tend to change at a slower rate as they get older.

I would persist in giving him the chance to go back to sleep after a short nap, as you know sometimes he will, and hopefully with the right routine tweaks he'll manage that more and more like he used to. I'll just get that wi/wo link if I can find it, you might find it helpful... Getting back on track using Walk In/Walk Out (WI/WO)

[RhoGre]

Thank you I will try those things you mentioned.  I had never heard of the WI/WO method....thank you.  Yesterday was much better with a 2 hours/2.25 hour wake time in the morning and he barely can do three hours in between the naps...so I am sticking to that for now...2.25 hours in the morning for A time and 3 hours roughly between the naps...he is napping now but I just put him down b/c he was fussy at the 3 hour mark....we will see....thank you for your advice...I have been using the 1/2 rule for when he is in the bed cooing...thank you

[trimbler]

We do a lot of wi/wo with our DD, some say it's really for older babies/toddlers, but I'm sure we did it at 8mo... Sometimes I'll go in and sit her back down, give her pink bunny and lay my hand on her for a few seconds, by which time she'll start crying again and push me away, she just doesn't want me distracting her when she's trying to go back to sleep and then she settles just fine as soon as I'm out the door It's about giving the reassurance that you're there, that you hear him, that he doesn't need you to get back to sleep (since he can already do that himself) but if there's a problem then you'll know because you've gone in to check. And of course you're not stuck in there so your toddler isn't alone for too long

Really glad to hear things were better the other day Do let us know how it's going and whenever you want us to take another look at his routine