Author Topic: HELP!!! 15 months old: short naps, consistent EWs at same time every morning!  (Read 1667 times)

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Offline FroggyMom

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Well, I'm back again!!!   :P  DD is now 15 months old, and I have had a particularly hard time with her napping/night sleep since she turned about 12 months old.  When she turned 12 months old, she went through about 4.5 weeks of terrible naps/EW's/NW's.  After that time, her night sleep returned to normal; however, she has never been a particularly great napper.  Then, about a month ago, things went topsy turvy again...sigh.   ::)  I switched her to 1 nap around 12 months old as 2 naps were just not working for her.  Instead of a desired 2 hour nap, she would only ever do about 1 hr 20 minutes at most.  I tried to lengthen this nap, but nothing ever worked so I accepted that maybe 1 hr 20 minutes was what she needed.  However, we have constantly been in a downward spiral again as far as DD's sleep, and I think she needs far more sleep than she is getting.

From about 4 months old, DD has always been an independent sleeper.  With DS (who is now almost 6 years old), we rocked him to sleep.  At 14 months old, I had to do gradual withdrawal sleep training with him in order for him to become an independent sleeper and sleep well.  However, since DD has always been an independent sleeper, I'm not sure where to go from here with her.  Currently, she takes 1 nap that is usually only 30-50 minutes long (I'd say 40-45 minutes on average).  I have tried anything I can think of to re-settle her back to sleep.  I used to be able to resettle her but not anymore.  I have tried PU/PD, WI/WO, standing by her crib and patting her, etc.  She just fights to get out of the bed and points towards her door wanting to leave the room.  It is as if she sleeps through 1 sleep cycle, and then there is no way to get her to go into the next sleep cycle.

As far as night time, she usually goes to sleep just fine on her own.  However, she wakes between 5-5:30 am every morning....no matter what time she went to bed.  Again, it is as if she has just learned to wake at this time.  I have tried everything I know to settle her at this time as well.  I have even tried sleeping on the floor in her room starting at the time she wakes, and she will not even go back to sleep with me lying right there.  I am concerned as she has to be SOOOO OT at this point!!!  I know every baby does not sleep the textbook amount of sleep recommended for his/her age; however, DD has only been sleeping 11-11.5 hours in a 24 hour period I would guess lately.  This does not seem like enough to me.

The only thing I haven't tried as far as naps that I'm thinking I should try is a set nap.  I have tried all types of awake hours (anywhere from 4-6 hours mostly) to try to get her to lengthen her one nap.  That has not worked.  In fact, her nap has gotten shorter and shorter as the time has gone on.

I also have an autoimmune disorder that worsens throughout the day and gets better some with rest.  With DD's sleep in such a mess, I am struggling to get any rest and just not feeling well myself.  Therefore, DH and I have resorted to bringing DD in the bed with us when she wakes at 5 am some days just to get a bit of rest in.  I do not want to continue this as I want her to sleep in her own bed, but I had to have some rest!!!! 

Can someone please help me with what I should try?  Am I going to need to do formal sleep training even if she initially falls asleep on her own and has always been an independent sleeper?  What do I do if her 1 nap never lengthened, and she won't transition to a new sleep cycle?  Any advice would be much appreciated!

Offline lily_layne

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Things were similar for my DD around that age. I just stuck with a set nap time because naps were set at daycare and it saved my sanity not figuring out A times. I am not sure if anything I did helped. It got better on its own around 16/17 months.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline lily_layne

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DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline FroggyMom

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Thank you so much for your response!  I have been starting to feel as if I'm all alone, and everyone else has toddlers that nap 2 hours and sleep 11-12 hours at night...haha!  I did read through the link that you sent me regarding set naps.  This does sound like something I should give a try at this point!  I figure...what do I have to lose?!  Haha!  I know you said you are not sure if anything you did helped your DD, and it just got better around 16/17 months.  I feel like this is what happened with my DD at 12 months when we went through this, and it took about 4.5 weeks and just got better on its own. It's just SOOOO hard to wait these things out!  I want to be doing something to help "fix" it! 

Could you please look at a typical day for DD and help me to decide when you would set her nap?

wake-up:  between 5-5:30 am (However, I do not let her out of bed this early.  I try to keep her in bed until at least 6:30 am if at all possible)
E:  7 am (breakfast)
A
E:  9 am (snack)
E:  11 am (lunch)
S: naps have not been set before.  I usually try between 5-6 hours awake time...so nap may start anywhere between 12-1 pm depending on wake-up time) Naps usually last 45 min on average
E:  2:30 pm (snack)
A
E: 4:30-5 pm (dinner)
E:  6:30 pm bedtime bottle
S:  7 pm

This is just a rough estimate at DD's day as it has always been changing based up on wake-up times.  I have tried anything between 6:30-7:30 pm for bedtime....usually aiming for around 7 pm.  The last time I tried earlier bedtime at 6:30 pm because I just felt she was so OT...she actually did worse (she woke after only an hour of being asleep and cried for nearly an hour!).   So, I feel like 7 pm may be the earliest bedtime she can handle.

I also have DS's carpool to consider.  On days that DD has to ride with me to get him from carpool, we leave the house at 1:30 pm.  So, she would have to nap before that or either in the car on those days.  She does stay with my mother-in-law about half the week during carpool time though so could nap whenever need be. 

Also, how would you suggest handling the early wake-ups at 5 am no matter what time she went to bed.  Nothing I have tried will convince her to go back to bed (other than coming to my bed!), and we both are a tired mess by the time she gets out of her crib at 6:30 am (the 1.5 hour struggle is wearing on me!).  Thanks so much for all of your advice/help!

Offline FroggyMom

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I also just remembered this.  I used to think maybe DD just didn't need as much as sleep as I thought she did.  But while I do think she needs less sleep than my DS did, she definitely needs more than she is getting now.  I set her in her bouncer to play earlier today while I was fixing her lunch (maybe around 11:45 am!), and when I came back, she was sound asleep in her bouncer!!!  She never just falls asleep just anywhere!  I just don't know how to get her to sleep as when I provide proper sleeping opportunities...she doesn't want to it seems!

Offline lily_layne

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I went through the same thing, thinking DD needed more sleep than she really did. It sounds like you know your LO well. Are you thinking she'd do better with 12/12.5h sleep?

At that age, DD's nap was set at 1130/1145. It was actually set at daycare but we continued it at home. Looking at your day, I think 1130 would be good time to try. She didn't always nap well (short naps were a problem here too) but once she got in the routine, she was always ready to sleep then whether she woke at 530 or at 7.

If you are really exhausted and need the sleep for your health, I think it's ok to bring her to bed with you when she wakes at 5. When you feel ready (and have lots of support) you can break it if it becomes habit. There's always the chance that it won't become a habit and once she starts sleeping later you won't need to worry.

When DD's napping went to pot at that age, BT was sometimes 6 or earlier. She still woke at 5/530 but at least she'd gotten a bit more sleep at night. Have you tried BT that early before?
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline arabesque

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Just wanted to say a quick thank you for his- my DD is nearly 14 months and is doing everything you have described. I also have an autoimmune disease and am really struggling with the 5am starts. I hope things improve for you!
DS1 July 2007; DS2 April 2010; DD September 2014

Offline arabesque

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How are you going froggymom?
DS1 July 2007; DS2 April 2010; DD September 2014

Offline FroggyMom

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How are you going froggymom?

I just want to thank you so much for checking in on me!  It has been VERY rough here with DD lately, and I have not even had a chance to check in much.  As I sit and type, she is fussing in her high chair refusing to eat her snack.  :(  She is a very spirited/strong-willed baby, and I'm finding it harder and harder to cope.  DS (who is almost 6) is a textbook/angel baby, and I am just not at all used to how to deal with this.  How is your DD getting along?  Better than we are I hope!  I have myasthenia gravis (an autoimmune disease which causes my voluntary muscles to get tired and weaken with repeated use) so am just shattered by the end of the day most days.

I went through the same thing, thinking DD needed more sleep than she really did. It sounds like you know your LO well. Are you thinking she'd do better with 12/12.5h sleep?

Yes, I feel like she does better with an 11-12 hour night and at least 1 hr 30 minute nap....so 12.5-13.5 hours sleep total.  However, she is currently napping about 30-45 minutes on average and about 10 hours at night.  :(  I feel like she is now obviously so OT, but I have NO idea how to fix it as she will not accept sleep it seems.  I did try my best to do a set nap at 11:30 for about a week; however, she never napped more than the usual 30-45 minutes it seemed.  I then tried a set nap time of 12, and it seemed to go better for a few days at first.  She still woke at 30-45 minutes most days; however, she could be resettled at times to do a total of 1 hr 15-30 minute naps.  Just when I thought a set nap of 12 may work....the small bit of success I was seeing ended as quick as it began.  :(  I still try to aim for a nap at noon; however, most days her sleep looks like this:

wake-up:  anywhere between 4:30-5:30 am usually
out of bed for the day:  between 6:30-7 am
nap:  12 (for about 30-45 minutes but I then spend a LOT of time trying to resettle)
bedtime:  between 6:30-7 pm

I did try not bringing her to bed with me when she wakes between 4:30-5:30 am for about a week.  DH and I took turns going in and trying to resettle her in her crib.  The only way she did not scream and cry was if we laid on the floor in her room.  We had to pat her and keep our hand in the crib; however, she would still only lay there awake until we let her up.  Every once in awhile she went back to sleep, but this was not the usual.  After about a week of this, we were so tired again that we have been letting her come back to our bed early in the morning.  Most of the time she will go back to sleep; however, sometimes she will lay there awake even in our bed until we let her up for the day.  I would like to keep her in her own crib; however, I'm not even sure how to go about it at this time.

When DD's napping went to pot at that age, BT was sometimes 6 or earlier. She still woke at 5/530 but at least she'd gotten a bit more sleep at night. Have you tried BT that early before?

Before DD was a year old, it seemed like early bedtimes were helpful and actually helped her sleep longer at night when she needed them.  However, now it seems as if she does worse with early bed times.  Her ideal bedtime seems to be 7 pm.  It seems the times I have tried to do earlier than about 6:45 pm, she then has NWs as well as the usual EW. 

I am at a total loss with her.  We made the 2-1 nap transition about 4 months ago now....and her one nap has NEVER extended to two hours!!!!  I am feeling totally defeated and like I may never sleep through the night or have a break during the day again.  Any advice you guys have would be much appreciated!

Offline arabesque

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Aw froggymom! I so feel for you. My first was also angel baby- subsequent children are so hard when they have a will of their own!

DD was also very OT here last week and I went back to two naps. First nap was only 20-30 mins, usually in car or pram as we were out, and then second nap a few hours later. It has made a difference! Can I encourage you if you are able to give it a go- at least you might get another few mins by yourself in the day. We are now alternating between two and one nap. It has restored a little of my sanity and while I like things to be predictable and they're not, it's much better for her.

Hang in there, you can do this. You sound so very tired, I hope you have someone you can ask to help you on the weekends at least. 😘
DS1 July 2007; DS2 April 2010; DD September 2014

Offline FroggyMom

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arabesque, thank you SO much for your encouragement and kind words...I SO need them right now!  I was just signing on to tell you guys about nap time today.  I started to think maybe I need a wind down routine before nap to see if that helps.  I used to do this, but with DS and so much always going on had gotten away from it.  So, for 10 min prior to nap time, I turned everything off, lights off, etc....read books for 10 min and then put her in her crib.  I thought it had helped because she fell asleep immediately.  However, it only lasted 20 minutes.  :(  What does a 20 min nap even mean?  She could not have even made it through 1 whole sleep cycle this time.  Lately, it NEVER works to try to resettle her back to sleep if she wakes during a nap, but I tried anyway.  When I walked out, she stood up in her crib but did not cry so I left her in there.  About 20 minutes later, she was quiet but still standing so I went in to check...she had a bowel movement, so I changed her and tried to lay back in crib.  All in all...I tried for 1 hr 20 min to get her back to sleep.  Part of the time she was in her crib standing quietly....the other part I had my hand on her back as she lay down.  She seemed to have fallen asleep a few times while my hand was on her back, but as soon as I moved it, she would wake a minute or two later.  :(  I can't stand over her for her whole nap time everyday!!!!  She has always previously been an independent sleeper, and I don't understand what is happening!!!

Aw froggymom! I so feel for you. My first was also angel baby- subsequent children are so hard when they have a will of their own!

So I'm not alone...it is so VERY hard, isn't it?!  It is like everything that worked with the first child no longer works the second time around!!!  I did go back to trying 2 naps at one point over a month ago.  It actually made night time sleeping worse it seemed, but I may need to give it a go again.  Who knows!  What is your DD's schedule like on a 2 nap day?  How long does she sleep for the 2nd nap?

I am SO VERY tired.  Sigh.  Worn out.  I'm almost wondering if she needs some type of sleep training although she has previously always been an independent sleeper...and she still falls sleep independently...she just won't stay asleep at naps...or past 4-5 am in the morning!  I just don't know what to do.....

Offline arabesque

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Honestly, I don't know what I did. I prayed! I asked God to help me because I was struggling to be a good mother to my other kids when I was so tired.

This is a season, and it will pass. I know it doesn't make it any easier when you're in it and struggling every day, but it won't be forever. Xx
So my DD is 14.5 months now.
This has been our last few days...

W 6-6:30 (huge improvement)
Nap 1 10:15/20-10:45 I wake her
Nap 2 in the car on way to school pickup or in cot around 2:30-3:10 if going to school, or longer if at home.
Bed 7.

About every third day we have done one nap at 12. But it was only a few days ago that she was doing 45 min naps once a day and waking at 5-ish. I think 20 min is OT, sounds like she just can't get past that to fall into deep sleep. Can you AP a few naps? I hate AP, I am type A and have tried from the start to get my kids to sleep independently and refuse to do anything that could "ruin" that. But said with love- you both sound like you need it, and if for s few days you sit on the couch and rock the pram and get her to have a 40 min nap, you might both have the energy to retry it the next day in the cot?

Oh and has she got a lovey? My DD has taken to a soft toy and now I tell her every night before bed that if she wakes up early, get teddy and go back to sleep. It probably doesn't work yet but she's inderstanding more and more each day. Maybe just reminding her that her companion for nap and nights is a lovey and not you would help your DD.

Are you in Australia? You've written back so quickly :) xx
DS1 July 2007; DS2 April 2010; DD September 2014