Author Topic: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions  (Read 6520 times)

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Offline Kangarruu

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Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« on: November 08, 2015, 06:06:22 am »
Hi everyone,
It's been quite a while, as I haven't written since my now almost 4 year old was a baby! I now have an adorable 8 week old son and have been having a lot of questions about getting him on EASY. I was hesitant to write, since my questions were all over the place and I didn't want to bombard everyone, but I finally caved. Sorry for the ranting post.

My husband insisted we work on EASY from day one, whereas I was kind of hesitant since we had a lot of trouble sleep training DD. We had a really hard time getting him on EASY in the beginning until we realized he was having gut issues and much of the crying/early wakings were the result of gas. We're still not sure if he has reflux or not, as his symptoms seem to vary daily. I'm currently off of dairy and chocolate (woe is me), and we are using gas drops and put him on a probiotic, all of which seemed to help some.  But he still has very fussy periods, especially in the evening or any time he's trying to poop, which throw our routine. I also run into trouble when I need to drop off of pick up my daughter from school, when his naps get disrupted and he sometime just doesn't go back down before his next feed.

1. What happens if his nap is cut short and he's been up for 45 minutes by feeding time? I don't let him fall asleep while nursing but should I put him down immediately after? He ends up waking with a gap before his next feed and the cycle repeats. But if I try to keep him up longer he is overtired at the next feed and sometimes i'm just unable to do a proper shh/pat or he is simply not settling.

2. Cluster feeding...i'm still clustering at night and I'm not sure when I should stop. I do 5, 7 and a top off after his bath at 8 or if the afternoon feed is 4 i do 6 and 8 if he gets the second cat nap or 7/7:30 if he doesn't. Should I still be doing at that 8 weeks? I've tried not doing the top off but he ends up waking up or having a harder time going to sleep. In fact, many nights he wakes up before the dream feed and we can't figure out why.

3. Night feedings: at around 6 weeks he was waking up at either 1 or 2 and then between 4 and 5 for a feed. He was doing only 2 hours between feeds many nights but he was taking full feeds so I just assumed hunger and left it at that. At some point I started pushing his feeds to between 3:30 and 4:30 when I saw that he was able to handle it on one or two occasions. The issue is that he still wakes up earlier and squirms, though he doesn't cry. I end up giving him his paci over and over sometime between 1:30-3:30 till I end up feeding him. If I feed him 3:30 he sometimes he wakes in the early 6s and I give him paci again and he goes back down till around 7:30/8. If I feed him closer to 4:30 he lasts till about 7 when we start the day. Should I go back to feeding him twice?

4. I was thrilled when we got into a rhythm and I was able to put DS down for his naps with a paci and he would put himself to sleep and nap for 2 hours at a time. in the last week or so He has been having a much harder time sleeping through the time i drop off or pick up DD, or waking from his naps early even at home. He also has a much harder time falling asleep and I see he is awake 20-30 minutes after I put him down. Should I be extending his awake time? I was thinking he was overtired at 1 hour, but perhaps he is undertired and I should try an hour and 15? I have a hard time seeing his cues and I'm usually running around getting DD ready or getting ready to pick her up... I generally can tell he is getting restless when he starts to get vocal and that's usually around the 1 hour mark.

5. My last major question is a breastfeeding one. I had a lot of latching issues in the beginning and the experience was very unpleasant. I ended up meeting with a lactation consultant and things have greatly improved. I have been doing single side feeds since she recommended it, and DS seemed to be satisfied from one side till now. But I am wondering if my supply from one side will always be enough or if at some point I should start offering the the second side when his intake increases? I was worried that DS feeds were short but the LC weighed him and after 2 minutes he had taken 1.5 oz so he is just an efficient eater. At this point his E time is around 15 minutes. I thought perhaps his early wakeups were a result of hunger so I offered the second side at one of the feeds and he took quite a lot. However at the next feed he took much less so I'm very confused.

Sorry if this is totally in the wrong forum...feel free to move it to where it's appropriate. Thanks in advance for any advice, I know it's a handful.

Offline lauradj

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 05:53:12 am »
Hi there!  You do have a bunch of questions, so I will try to help you out with the sleep related ones.  I would recommend you post on the feeding board as well as those ladies have a wealth of experience around breast feeding. 
The first thing I will recommend, as a mom that juggled two under two, is try to relax a bit.  It can be incredibly stressful in the beginning.  You want to get it just right but you're also having to consider another little person's needs and you end up feeling pulled in so many directions.  Your baby is still incredibly young, and if he's waking in the middle of the night, he's probably hungry so please do feed him.  Having said that, if he's not crying, he probably doesn't need to to fed, in which case give him the chance to resettle and he may just drift off back to sleep.   
Regarding keeping the 'order of things', I was militant with DS1 but with DS2 I didn't have that luxury.  If DS2 woke early from a nap, and he wasn't hungry, we headed out for our day.  I made sure to offer him milk when it was time for him to eat and if that happened to occur right before his next nap, c'est la vie.  Sometimes he fell asleep, most of the time he didn't, but he would go to sleep soon after. 
I found that the 8 week mark was the most challenging for naps.  Both my boys dealt with the short nap phase far earlier than most, around 2-3 months and then it's done.  This may be the case with your babe.  If you can get in two good naps during the day, that's fantastic.  If the third one is a little shoddy, that's ok.


Offline Kangarruu

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2015, 16:31:17 pm »
Thank you lauradj! You truly gave me some peace of mind. I think sometimes we just need a little push to feel like it's ok to let things go a little, so thank you for that. I'm a perfectionist by nature so I really do have to resist the urge to "get it just right". Good to know I'm not breaking my son by going easy on him :P


Offline lily_layne

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2015, 19:45:23 pm »
Good to know I'm not breaking my son by going easy on him
You most definitely aren't! I second everything laura said. I also had let things go a bit with LO2 and in lots of ways I actually found it easier with 2 LOs than I ever did with 1 because I was more relaxed and not so focused on doing things perfectly.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline weaver

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2015, 20:00:30 pm »
A baby that young needs to feed at night, two night feeds is pretty average . By all means make sure he's getting enough during the day but don't try to discourage NFs yet. Often the quickest way to get back to sleep is to feed. It's also important for your supply.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Kangarruu

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 04:09:09 am »
Thanks ladies! Wow good to know about the night feeds! I hope my supply hasn't dropped already, it's been quite a few nights that he's only taken one feed between the dream feed and 7. Oops!

Offline lauradj

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2015, 04:19:25 am »
don't try to discourage NFs yet. Often the quickest way to get back to sleep is to feed. It's also important for your supply.
Yes!  Sorry, I don't think I put that across very well in my comment.  DS1 STTN at 2 months, when DS2 didn't until 4 months, I thought I was going to come completely unglued from lack of sleep but he needed those calories, big time, so I never denied him. 
It really does get easier with two because they'll start to entertain each other once your LO is a bit older.  I'd say 6 months was when they really began to get a kick out of each other. 


Offline lily_layne

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2015, 18:53:23 pm »
it's been quite a few nights that he's only taken one feed between the dream feed and 7. Oops!
I wouldn't worry. That's still 2 feeds.

I just noticed your question about single side feeding. I did single side feeding with DD until around 4 months - then she made it clear that she wanted both sides. If it's working, I would keep doing what you're doing.
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Offline weaver

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2015, 19:59:10 pm »
it's been quite a few nights that he's only taken one feed between the dream feed and 7. Oops!
You don't need to aim for a certain number of feeds and I wouldn't worry about supply too much.  I would not for example wake him up for a NF if he happened to sleep ;) but if he does wake, then I'd feed him if it's been a few hours since last time. 
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline lauradj

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2015, 22:03:54 pm »
I also did single-side feeding with both boys.  A gf of mine told me, "No, you have to do both sides" so I tried for one weekend and DS1 threw up after every feed.  I went back to single side feedings after the third attempt.  Each baby is unique so there's nothing wrong with only doing a single side per feed, if that's all baby wants.


Offline Kangarruu

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2015, 03:39:55 am »
You're all angels! Thanks for the support. I went back to two feeds at around 2:30 and 4/5 and he goes back to sleep right away most of the time and starts the day between 7:30 and 8. Sometimes he randomly wakes up around 6:30 or so but he wriggles around and generally resettles himself.

Is it normal for him to wake up earlier in the night as well? He's usually down by 8/8:20 but has been waking up before the dream feed. We aim to dream feed at around 10:40 but he keeps waking up before that. DH goes in to give him a pacifier and he goes back to sleep so I doubt its hunger related. Should we just push the dream feed earlier?




Offline Kangarruu

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 03:46:55 am »
He's also been having these strange middle-of-sleep shrieking episodes. Almost like night terrors, but he calms down as soon as i pick him up. Its very different from his pain cry, so i don't think its that. it's happened 3 times already. Anyone have any experience with that?

Offline lily_layne

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2015, 19:39:04 pm »
The waking before the dream feed could be caused by being overtired at BT. Do you want to post what a typical days looks like (WU, nap times, BT) and I can take a look?

If he settles quickly, I am guessing the extra night wakes are related to a developmental leap. There's a great app called The Wonder Weeks (and website) that tells you when these leaps are and their impact on sleep and behavior. My DS often gets shrieky at night during a wonder week.
DD - August 2012
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Offline Kangarruu

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2015, 02:37:13 am »
Wow sorry for the huge delay! DH is still sometimes waking up before the DF, but at this point we're going through some other EASY issues so it's not so surprising. The last week and a half we've been having lots of 40 minute naps. Sometimes he goes straight back to sleep when I give him the pacifier, other times he'll fuss till it makes no sense to continue and I just take him out and try to put him down a little earlier for his other nap. He turned 3 months on Friday and I'm a little confused if he's OT or UT at naps. For a good few weeks I've been able to put him down by himself, give him the pacifier and sometimes turn on the sound machine and he would drift off himself with limited help. The last two weeks he's needed a lot more help going to sleep, as he's been fussing a lot more and becoming upset when he drops his pacifier (this hasn't really been an issue before). I've been staying with him and giving it to him when he drops it, am I becoming a crutch? I thought perhaps he was OT so I've started putting him down at 1.05, thinking that he would go to sleep by 1.15, but I've been getting 40 minute naps. I then tried putting him down at 1.15 thinking he'd go to sleep by 1.25/30 but he is still fussy, though sometimes those naps do end up longer. I also considered that he may be hungry (I posted in the breastfeeding thread about out feeding issues lately. His feeds have shortened and he's been jerking at the breast and refusing to latch) Is this just a phase? Should I continue aiming for a 1.5 awake time at 12 weeks? At what point do I cut out the catnap? Since his naps have been short I've been keeping it. But if he wakes up from last nap at 5 he ends up falling asleep for the catnap at around 6:15/30- 7 and then I do bedtime around 7:45/8. I feel like a 6:30 bedtime would be too early and he wouldn't make it to the DF. Thanks again for all your input and support!

Offline lauradj

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Re: Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2015, 06:47:29 am »
Hi there!  Nice to see you back  :D  I'm about to head off to bed so this will be short but sweet.  I would aim for an A time of 1.5 because that's pretty much the standard for your LO's age.  Short naps are VERY common at this stage, no matter what you do.  However I would suggest you keep in mind Tracy's motto "Start as you mean to go on", so if you don't want to always be there for the replug, I would caution you against it now.  Especially considering the short naps are likely developmental, stick with Shh-Pat or even just a hand on the back or front if need be.
Regarding the catnap, we encourage parents to keep the cat nap until baby is about 6 months old.  At that point they're generally able to manage with just two naps and not completely lose it.  6:30pm isn't an unrealistic bedtime.  My 9 month old is asleep at 6:45/7pm at the absolute latest.  K, eyes are drooping, I'll check back in tomorrow.