Delaying night feed for 8 week old and a bunch of questions

[Kangarruu]

Thanks lauradj! Do you mean I should continue staying in the room but not give him the pacifier? I feel like it would take him ages to settle if I did that. He does not respond well to shush pat ( he doesn't rest his head on the shoulder ever) but he responds pretty quickly to the pacifier and stays asleep without it many times. Today i left the room and tried to see if he would settle if i didn't plug him back up right away. He complained for a while. I went in to give it to him and he fell asleep within a couple of minutes. He dropped it at some point later and didn't wake up. Isn't this considered self soothing? To be clear I don't stay in the room for the whole nap, and many times I just go in and out to give him the pacifier. Are these 40 minute naps going to sort themselves out even if I don't resettle him? I'm starting to go zombie-like.

Oh one more thing. When I said drop the catnap I meant that he's taking 3 naps plus the catnap

[lauradj]

Ack!!  How did I miss your post?!  Sorry!!!
Honestly, if you feel the pacifier isn't an issue, than it's not.  A gf of mine let her kids have pacifiers until they were three and then the dummy fairy (she's Aussie) comes and takes them away one night.  No issues there.  I do think the short naps will sort themselves out.  My comment regarding the pacifiers was based on the assumption that he couldn't fall back to sleep without the pacifier.  That does pave the way to it becoming a prop so I have to let you make that call.

[Kangarruu]

Yeah it's hard to tell honestly. He's been crying out when he drops it before he falls asleep but he resettles so quickly that I don't mind coming back in to give it to him. When I lay him down awake at night after his feed he generally drifts off without the pacifier. Otherwise he does seem to need it to settle, but then when it falls out he stays asleep. The naps did improve when I started extending his awake time and he basically moved himself to a 3.5 hour EASY. So he ends up with 3 naps and the catnap became kind of obsolete unless his third nap is too short. He's still waking up 1-2 times before the dreamfeed though. I'm hoping he just grows out of it?

[lily_layne]

When I lay him down awake at night after his feed he generally drifts off without the pacifier. Otherwise he does seem to need it to settle, but then when it falls out he stays asleep.

This is how my DD and DS were. Eventually (around 5-6 months) they started needing the paci less and less to settle to sleep and eventually dropped it on their own.

The NWs before the dreamfeed might be from OT. Have you tried pulling BT back a bit to see what happens?

[Kangarruu]

Took some time to test out that theory but now of course everything has changed again so none of the same variables apply. Yay babies 
I tried moving up his bedtime to around when his catnap would have been. But then he just woke up thinking it was a catnap and was very displeased at being put back to bed. The other alternative is squeezing in a catnap around 6/6:30 and then speeding through bath and bedtime. He's been a lot more relaxed when doing that. but the problem is that he's been fighting the catnap and on days that he doesn't take it he ends up completely OT and bedtime is a disaster.

LateIy we're in a bit of a rut. We're having a lot of fighting sleep and kvetching at naptimes and even if I'm in the room to try to help he's not relaxing. Not all the time -morning nap is still pretty Golden- but way more often in the last few days. He's just a week shy of 4 months, have we hit the sleep regression? We're already resorting to catnap in the swing, because the alternative is a losing battle. But I'd really like to avoid that for other naps. Not sure what my options are when he doesn't respond to shhpat. I feel like I'm being unfair to DD when I'm stuck in the room with DS the whole afternoon.

[lily_layne]

Both of mine had a big A time leap at that age and began to fight naps because they weren't quite ready for sleep. Do you think adding an extra 15 minutes might help?

I wouldn't worry about the CN in the swing. Lots of mamas do that one in a swing, sling or stroller. FWIW, I also did lots of other naps in the swing until around 5 months and it didn't cause any problems. If you need to get out and spend time with DD, I would pop him in the swing.

[Kangarruu]

I find your advice strangely therapeutic  There's something calming about another parent giving you permission to do something you felt guilty about.

And of course you were right. I added 15-20 min and he passed out easily for the morning and afternoon naps, and slept for 2 hours. His late afternoon nap was still a but fussy, but it coincides with school PU for DD so he eventually falls asleep in the stroller.

This lovely stage lasted about a week  but what a glorious week it was. We now have 5/6 am WUs, with last night bringing WUs every hour and some more screaming for naps. I was convinced it was another growth spurt/ or a wonder week, but he's not actually doing more eating. He looks hungry and latches readily, but is on and off the breast.

I'm going to attempt to feed every 3 hours and hope that helps tonight. I'm a bit confused though, if he wakes up at night multiple times during a growth spurt do I feed him more than his usual 1 feed?

[lauradj]

If he's hungry, definitely feed him and your breastmilk supply will increase to keep up.  If he's not hungry, you can try to ease him back to sleep but I'd try feeding first during a growth spurt. 

[Kangarruu]

Not sure its a growth spurt, he barely ate all day!

[lauradj]

Could he be experiencing early teething?  DS1 had a really rough go at 4 months but no teeth, and then at 7 months 4 teeth came in within two weeks with no fuss.  However, the distracted eating is also sort of par for the course.  As baby starts to notice there's more to the world than boobs and sleeping, it gets hard to keep them task oriented. 

[Kangarruu]

Could he be experiencing early teething? 

I was wondering if that was a possibility actually. He's been gnawing on everything like crazy, but I thought that was typical at this age. He's on a 4 hour EASY for the most part now so it makes it super confusing because I keep thinking he's hungry.

We still haven't resolved our evening bedtime issues...acccctuuuuaally the've gotten worse. His EASY has looked something like this for the last week or so:

6 am stir and get resettled till
7:30 WU & BF
7:45 A
9:30 S sometimes for 1:30-2 hours straight, other times resettled after 40
11:30 BF
11:45 A
1:15/1:30 S
2:30/3 BF
2:45/3:15 A
4:30/5 S
5:40 A Bath, BF and bedtime. I put him in around 6:30/7 but he does not settle himself at bedtime. I always try WI and burp him or adjust his swaddle or prop him up on his side and then WO a few times throughout the evening but by a certain point he become OT and requires a full Shhpat. Many times this has dragged on till 8:30/9:30 or even 10! by which point he's hungry and screaming and it's not pretty. Could he be UT at 6:30 from the CN? should I aim to put him closer to 2 hours even at BT?

[lauradj]

Hmmm, is your little guy 4 months now?  I'm sort of assuming as he's on the 4 hour EASY.  Your routine looks similar to how mine played out.  I think the thing I did differently was I did the CN from 4:30-5:15 and then we didn't start bath, book, bottle, bed until 6:30 but then the boys are in bed by 7:00pm still.  If he's not waking until 7:30am, maybe he needs to be awake until 7:30pm?  It's a subtle shift but it might help.  I was/am, pretty strict with WU and BT times, so I've done 7-7 with both boys for ages.  Maybe that would work better for you?

[Kangarruu]

Aw godalmighty we are not going to make it through this sleep regression. What. Is. Going. On?? He sleeps beautifully during the day and then come bedtime and its like someone replaced him with a different baby! Today I thought we might actually have a decent bedtime. I put him in and he lay quietly for a while and made some random noises here and there. But he either didn't sleep at all, or woke shortly after falling asleep and just wouldn't relax. Nothing DH or I did helped. He wouldn't stop wiggling long enough for shhpat to work or to lay on his side. But as soon as I took him out to check his diaper and adjust his swaddle, he lay there pleased as a peach. I keep thinking he doesn't want to be swaddled anymore, because he really fights to get his arms to his face. But as soon as I unswaddle him, or try the Aussie swaddle or put him in his Swaddle UP, he pushes his pacifier out or rubs his face over and over and gets himself completely agitated. He still doesn't have complete control of his limbs. The longer he's unswaddled, the more he flails. I'm totally exhausted and I'm trying so hard not to use motion props or feeding to sleep, but I'm totally running out of options. Tonight he went in close to 8 since he woke up from his catnap at 6:20. He didn't go to sleep till 10:40 and thats only because we finally just gave him his "not so dream" feed, as we figured by then he was hungry and used to eating at that time. Is there some kind of magic swaddle that lets him bring his arms up but not all the way to his face? Can someone take the night shift? I'd like one night of uninterrupted sleep. Just one? one?? I'll give you a cookie.

[trimbler]

Hi there, just wondering how things are going now, it's been a while since you posted here, or have you started another thread?

[Kangarruu]

Thank you for checking up on me! No, I haven't started a new thread, it's just that tearing my hair out is so time consuming 

I'm actually totally at a loss of what to do but I feel like I'm just repeating myself, so don't really want to bother everyone.

Buuuuuuut I will anyway

DS just can't decide what he wants. I know, I know, he's not even 5 months old. But that's what it feels like these days.

I started walking around with him for 10 min after his bedtime feed to get the gas and spit up and various juices flowing before BT. Some nights it helps and he  doesn't do his 40 min scream fest. Other nights he still needs major hand holding to get to sleep. The biggest issue to me is still the swaddling. I've tried every swaddle method and technique out there. I've tried hands in, hand out, hands out, totally unswaddled. If his hands are in he wiggles and squirms and elbows and grunts and wont relax. If one hand is out he goes straight for his face and pacifier. He pushes it out, chews on his hand and then gets irritated that some jerk took his pacifier. If both hands are out he goes into tapdancing mode and gets more and more restless and starts to cry furiously. I just don't see a way out. I end up trying various things throughout the evening and night and then just getting exasperated and swaddling him so tight that he can't wiggle at all. That ends up calming him down enough to fall asleep, so you'd think that would be the solution. But if I start the night off like that, watch out. Oh, he's also a super sweaty baby, so swaddling him up like that causes him to sweat...which guess what? wakes him up.

I also have absolutely no idea if he is waking to feed or from habit at this point. Usually if he wakes up anytime before 2 I assume it's not food related and give him a paci, or adjust how he's sleeping. At a certain point he doesn't go back to sleep with that tactic so then I assume it's food and he usually goes straight down. Here's the pickle... If I feed him one side, he will usually wake up again around 5/6. If I offer both sides he will sleep through to 7, but then eats much less in the morning! And of course if he doesn't get a large enough feed for breakfast, he resists his nap and the whole cycle begins again. He's been having of 2-4 NWs per night, and that's not including before the DF.

DD has also started waking up from nightmares. Usually this is right around the time that DS falls back asleep. Because you know these kids coordinate. I'm grouchy and angry all day from my lack of sleep, and end up snapping at DD and feel terribly guilty. I'm also barely getting anything done, which just adds to the frustration. How did I go back to work with DD? I can barely keep my house from looking like a tornado hit it, I can't even imagine looking like a person and going to work every day.


So that's how I've been. Aren't you glad you asked?