Author Topic: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!  (Read 3406 times)

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Offline JennVanessa1083

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5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« on: November 08, 2015, 19:56:08 pm »
Hi!

My now 5 month old tends to nap wonderfully in the morning unless he's really OT; however, his afternoon nap is always broken. He always wakes up between 35-45 minutes and u have to resettle. He wakes up calm and tries to go back to sleep even with my help but always ends up crying.

Not sure what to do or is this something I ride out because it's a developmental thing? I have another board around his NW and bedtime issues. However, I'm starting a new topic since this issue has been going on for a long time now. Any thoughts?

My routine from yesterday and some of today:

NW 8:45-940pm, 2:32 am, 4:48 am

WU: 7:57 am
E 8:17
A
S 10:23- 11:34 am(A 2:26; rocked then put him down drowsy while singing; went down fairly easy after I got him drowsy since he was wide awake)
E 11:59 am
A
S 2:10- 3:40 pm (A 2:35; wired and would not go down. Crying hard. Tried everything had to rock him to sleep.)
E 4:03
A
S 6:14- (A 2:34; didn't settle kept wanting to push up and roll from tummy to back; got agitated. I waited 10-15 minutes to see if he would settle. Finally jiggled him to sleep.)
E 6:58 pm
A BT routine
E 8:10 pm
S 8:21-8:52 pm (A 1:35) fought sleep got agitated just wanted to play; jiggled him to sleep
S 9:30-10:31 pm
E 10:33 pm
S 10:39 pm

Today thus far:

NW 8:52-9:30, 10:31, 3:15 am

WU: 7:17 am
E 7:31
A
E 8:57 am
A
S 9:24-11:16am (A 2:07) self settle with modified shh pat. Woke up very briefly at 1:11; resettled with jiggling and then patting.
E 11:45 am
A
E 1:14 pm
A
A 1:45- (A 2:29);A 2:29;tried self settling with modified sh pat for 11 minutes;was getting increasingly agitated; calmed him down with a jiggle of the mattress. Then quickly drifted off. Woke up at 36; tried shh pat he escalated finally bounced him to sleep 15 minutes later.
Jennifer xx

Offline lauradj

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 05:35:33 am »
Hi there!  I'm sorry you're still having a rough go with sleep.  You'll have to remind me of a few things; have you tried PU/PD with your LO?  Also, what is your baby's temperament? (spirited, angel, textbook, grumpy).  I often find with my LO, I can put him down a little early if he's tired, but so help me if I put him down late.  Do you find there is a magic time that makes a difference?  In the morning you had him up for 2hr 26mins but in the afternoon he was awake for 2hrs and 35 mins, then 2hrs and 34mins before bed time.  Is the magic number perhaps 2.5hr?
I also wonder, if he naps really well in the morning, perhaps you should really work that nap.  Let him sleep for 2-2.5hrs if he will, anticipating that the afternoon will be a short nap?  I'm just throwing ideas around because I know you've been dealing with this for some time.


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2015, 06:35:29 am »
Hi!

Thank you for your reply! Well, he is supposed to textbook/angel but I'm convinced he's touchy when it comes to sleep as he seems sensitive to overtiredness and under tiredness. I have tried pu/pd and he just pushes me off of him. Usually shh pat works but in the last few days he has been resisting. I have also noticed an increase in NW but it could be OT related or it can be perhaps he needs a push. The am nap used to be solid but in the last few days he wakes up and I resettle rather easily. It can go for 2 hours but sometimes less.

It seems if I put him down by 2:20 he is life likely to self settle or a bit earlier but that results in a shortness 1:10-1:20 nap.

Should I stick with a 2.5 A then? What if a nap is broken so I maintain the A? Should I just work on first A as 2.5?
Jennifer xx

Offline lauradj

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 04:32:50 am »
If you have just recently noticed NW's have increased and his naps have become restless, it could be teething.  DS2 had four teeth come through with 6 weeks and he was pretty darn unhappy about.  I think consistency is best at this point.  Stick with the 2.5hr of A time.  I start the A time from when he wakes, not when he was expected to wake.  As an example; when I take the boys out to the park, guaranteed DS2 will only nap for 20-30 mins when he normal sleeps for 1.5hrs.  I take note of when he wakes and put him down for his next nap around 2.5-3hrs later (his A time is 3hr at the moment).  I also let him sleep longer, to make up for the crummy nap in the morning.  It just makes the rest of day run a little smoother.  HTH


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 05:02:10 am »
Thank you!!

Ok I will continue to stick with 2.5 A. It's hard bc I just want to fix it all but I just have to plow through.

He is teething bc the pediatrician confirmed swollen bottom gums but he isn't cutting. Can it still cause NW without cutting? Even early evening hour- 1.5 hr long NW? He doesn't even cry that much but is restless throughout the night. Last night he was up every 1.5-3 hrs (one stretch of 3 hrs) and tonight is looking similar to last night.

 Naps were great today. I had to resettle both but it didn't take much. However, perhaps I should have capped? The first one was 1.5; second was 1.75; CN was 35.
Jennifer xx

Offline lauradj

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 22:18:06 pm »
For sure it can cause discomfort!  As my friend described it, bone is pushing up through skin....OUCH!!!  We medicate whenever necessary here.  Just so you know you're not alone, it looks like DS2 has just started teething again, he woke from his morning nap with fluorescent cheeks and drooling like a champ.  Round 3!  ;D


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2015, 23:06:25 pm »
Haha awwwww round 3 ding ding ding!!!

Well at least we know our LOs are developing properly  ;D

Yea I think I'm going to give him baby tylonel and see if that helps. My poor baby if it's not one thing it's another.
Jennifer xx

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 22:41:11 pm »
Hello!

I'm posting again about the broken afternoon nap and now sometimes the morning one which was my reliable one. I have a post on the NW board which the NW has improved and I may adopt a new routine when we phase out the CN. However, right now is the in between phase and I can't seem to get A times right. Not sure if A times need to be different from each other because even when I get a good am nap the afternoon is broken or I get shortened naps (1:10-1:20) or two broken naps.

Here is my EASY from yesterday and today thus far:

NW 9:06-929, 10:18-10:44, 1:48, 5:30


WU 8:30 am
E 8:39
A
E 9:40 (top up feed)
A
S 11:09-12:44 (A 2:36; self settle but needed PUPD; maybe I put him in too soon (put him in at 2:30 A); woke up at 32 minutes)
E 12:53 pm
A
E 2:27 pm
A
S 3:20- 5:03 pm(A 2:36) self settle after PUPD; fussy; put him down too early (2:30A); woke up at 32 min
E 5:16 pm
A
E 7:31 pm
S 9:08- 10:41(A 1;08) rocked to see when he would fall asleep; woke up briefly crying at 40 minutes; OT
E 10:48 pm
S 11:16

NW 10:41-11:16 (crying from OT or discomfort and pooped), 5:47 am

WU: 8:24 am
E 8:47
A
E9:51 am (top up)
A
S 10:56- 12:11 pm (A 2:32) shh pat for 10 minutes; fussy may have been too early as he woke up happy
E 12:24 pm
A
E 1:57 pm (top up)
A
S 2:39- 4:42 pm(A 2:28; shh pat for 3 minutes); woke up at 35 minutes calm but became agitated when I tried shh pat; took 3 minutes to rock him to sleep
E 4:53 pm

I shortened A since yesterday seemed OT with the slightly longer A but not sure if I should push for 2:40 or more but then I still get less than 1.5 for am nap unless it's a bad night. Regardless pm nap is always broken. I'm confused.
Jennifer xx

Offline lauradj

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2015, 23:06:42 pm »
It is possible you need two different A times.  My DS2 can stay awake for about 3-3.25 hrs in the morning but in the afternoon he bottoms out after only 2.5 hrs.  I don't know why but he does and it works for with with day care pick up timing so I don't fight it.  If you think that may be the case, give it a whirl.  If you are going to do that though, make sure you give it a solid week before making any other alterations.  I also noticed you used both PU/PD and Shh-Pat on your LO, and he may find that confusing/irritating.  Most LO's find the Shhhhhhh sound quite irritating after about 4/5 months of age.  You could try just putting a gentle hand on your LO, that light presence might be enough to help calm him. 
Is there a particular reason you do a top up feed?  I noticed those seem to occur an hour after his original feed and I wonder if that's making him uncomfortably full?


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 00:30:24 am »
Hmmm good points...looking at my routine, does anything stand out in terms of A times?

I'm clueless on how to start adjusting the A times. I'm starting to extend the morning time of 2:40; he takes 35 minute naps then wakes up fussy and sometimes crying before I resettle him. This would indicate OT from stretching A right? Is increasing 5 minutes enough should I just push for 2:45 A?

I do top up feeds after realizing he doesn't make it to 4 hours quite yet. I think it may be because he was born with a smaller than average stomach. Do you think I should try a top up closer to the full feed? I could try to take away the top up but I found last week he wanted more full feeds at night but at this age it could have been a growth spurt.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 17:21:36 pm by JennVanessa1083 »
Jennifer xx

Offline lauradj

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2015, 05:40:01 am »
I would suggest two things; first, I would cut out that top up. It will take a few days but you'll likely notice he starts taking more bottle at his planned feeding time. It may also be that, with the growth spurt, your LO is almost ready for solids. Secondly, I'd stick with 2.5 hrs of A time. 35 mins is typically an OT nap and if he's just finished a growth spurt AND teething, that's a lot going on!
One thing I noticed between your first EASY's and your most recent, is DS seems to be sleeping an hour later in the mornings? I am a big fan of set WU times, because it means I have an idea of how my day will be organized. My boys hold a 7-7 schedule which works for them. That might be something that could help as well.


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 16:06:24 pm »
Thank you!

WRT to the top up, he takes a full feed and then a top up. I have tried to eliminate it several times recently; however, we end up with shortened naps. the only time I notice he will not necessarily take a top up is in the afternoon. I think he's honestly getting ready for solids (in 2 weeks he will be 6 months old).

I am going to pull back A. It is true he has a lot going on and he is OT. I even think he has a bit of accumulated OT. I was trying to extend A to extend naps a bit in the am but I think I'm going to stop that for now and take your advice and go back to 2.5 A. I'm actually thinking of going to set nap times with the help of another Mod. Out of curiously, have you ever done set nap times? What was your experience?

With WU I agree. My aim was 7:30 and we were great for a week then we had a really bad night and he got up later. It's been sort of stuck like that but the plan is to move it back to 7:30 or 8.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 17:14:45 pm by JennVanessa1083 »
Jennifer xx

Offline Martini~

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2015, 08:59:53 am »
Are the naps any better Hon?
~Marta

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2015, 13:29:48 pm »
Hi!

The naps are unpredictable. My reliable Am nap has been broken for a week now. He tends to wake up between 30-35 minutes. Sometimes crabby and sometimes content which makes me confused. Afternoon naps are still broken  with the occasional solid one. I'm trying the 2.5 A to see how it goes but it has been tricky because he's been giving me mixed signals. He's also teething so NW have increased which can also (I think) due to my routine.

Yesterday we were out and about so I can post Saturday's:

NW 8:55-9:38 pm, 10:01, 12:07, 3:03, 6:27 am

Total: ~10.5

Woke up tired and cranky

WU 8:13 am
E 8:18 am
A
E 9:49 am
A
S 10:31- 11:20 am (A 2:18; sung and patted; woke up at 34; tried shh pat but got agitated. Hubby said he woke up happy; after getting him resettled, he slept for 2 more minutes then he was wide awake. UT)
A
E 12:30 pm
A
S 1:30- 2:54 pm (A 2:10; shh pat; agitated with singing)
E 3:02 pm
A
S 5:29:5:50 pm (2:35; fussy and crying)
E 5:52 pm
A
S 7:14-7:58 pm (A 1:24; sung and patted; took 10 minutes; quietly drifted)

NW 7:58, kept waking up every 10 minutes from 8-9 rolling on back,11:26, 2:14, 4:31, 6:38 am
Jennifer xx

Offline Martini~

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Re: 5 mo old broken afternoon naps since forever!
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2015, 21:34:41 pm »
Hmmm and he is almost 6mo old? Can you increase A time further? Have you thought of set naps introduction?
~Marta