Author Topic: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs  (Read 3916 times)

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Offline zissi

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Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« on: November 09, 2015, 10:05:32 am »
Hi ladies,
My lo is 5.5 months old and since the 4 months sleep regression she wakes every 1-2 sleep cycles (between 45 mins and 2 hrs) at night. I usually feed her back to sleep as this is the quickest and she doesn't really wake that way. I know it has become a prop. She is not an independent sleeper and we are planning to do pupd next weekend. I guess my question is will this resolve the frequent night wakings? I have no problem feeding her every 4 hrs at night or so but our current night tine routine is killing me. I have tried other ways to put her back to sleep, mainly rocking and dummy but this usually doesn't work. It used to before the 4 months sleep regression... She is also going through the 3-2 transition which probably doesn't help either. But my feeling tells me the nw are a sleep association problem rather than hunger... Any thoughts?
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 18:09:14 pm »
I think you may have a prop hun. I would also check for teeth before you begin sleep training.

I would consider doing ssh/pat rather than jumping in straight with pu/pd wdyt? Pu/pd can be too stimulating for some bubbas and even more so at nighttime. Do you want to have a read through the ssh/pat link to prepare yourself?

I have also found it helps if daddy or someone else can help with the resettling at night. Is that something you could arrange? It helps break the association that if mummy comes in she's going to be fed back to sleep. It will be tough for a few days hun, then it will get better, then there will be a slight regression, then it will be better again ok? Xx

Shush-pat - How to



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 10:39:08 am »
Yeah that's what I thought. However she settles for bt and naps without nursing, usually on her tummy with her dummy. Still a prop at night time I guess? Will try sh pat first and see how it goes. When I feed her at night then and she falls asleep on the breast, will indeed to wake her when putting her down in the cot? Also, she got 2 teeth, not teething at the moment as far as o can see...
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 18:05:26 pm »
Nope, I still think night time is a whole different ball game than day time. So, if she does fall asleep on the breast at night I would whisper to her that you're putting her in bed now, night night. If she rouses slightly, ok, if she doesn't it's fine.

I would just concentrate on picking 2 times at night you're prepared to feed (or 3 if you prefer for now) and for all other NW's try the ssh/pat. You may have noticed when she does take a full feed already from the NW's currently and the ones she just has a go for a min or two and then falls asleep? If not, it might be worth making a note of them (if you can in your sleep deprived state  ;)) before you try? Wdyt? Xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 14:06:19 pm »
we were planning to sleep train today since its the wkd but now LO has a bit of a head cold. she doesn't feel terrible I don't think, should I delay? I really wanted to do that now since our nights are awful... what do you think?
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 19:44:54 pm »
I would hold off hun, there's nothing worse than someone trying to get you to do something if you feel a bit poorly! Perhaps give it a day or two? Or even next weekend. I know you psyched yourself up for it but one more week won't make a difference to how we approach it.

It's totally up to you, but I'd wait xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2015, 19:54:42 pm »
thanks, you are totally right. we held off and will wait another week, Prefer to do at the weekend... thanks again...
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2015, 20:06:18 pm »
My pleasure. Pop back when you need to. And ((hugs)) for the rough nights atm xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 16:14:17 pm »
just an update. we sleep trained yesterday as LO was better with her head cold and it went really well actually. took initially only 25 mins and then again an hour as she woke OT. she still had a cot party of 2 hrs after the 3pm feed. I think its developmental (nearly 6 months) as she did it before too. we did shush pat for this too. the 2 naps today went well. took her less than 5 mins to settle by herself. I decided to feed her every 3-4 hrs at night and will continue doing so for the time being. she did wake by herself every 3-4 hrs, wonder if she can read my mind...  ??? my DH was very hands on which really helped.. just one question, can I APOP the cat nap if we need one in the carrier? Thats what I had been doing so far as she would fight that nap anywhere else...
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 18:02:07 pm »
This is brilliant hun, well done you. I can tell my the tone of your post you're committed to it, I bet she can tell too  ;). Do remember it tends to get better for day two, then sometimes there's a little regression on day 3 or 4 ok? Then it does get better again, just remember to stick with it.

Yes, totally apop that CN if you need to. It won't hurt at all as it's not for every nap and BT too. We do what we can to get through these transitions. And tbh an apop'd CN is sometimes better than no CN ever again and OT building up. Keep me posted ok? Xx



Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 19:51:15 pm »
Was just thinking of you today, I hope things are still going well xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2015, 19:37:58 pm »
hi kellyjs,

thanks for asking. things are going well. nights are so much better. we have a dreamfeed and 2 additional feeds which are totally fine for me. Im getting so much rest, unbelievable. she settles well usually after feeds and for naps. for bedtime it still takes up to 30 mins for her to go down, I think no matter what I do she is OT by the end of the day. we had a trip over the wkd of 3 hours in the car. she settles badly there unfortunately. i hope this will change at some stage. its better already. we had times when she would have screamed historically after 10 mins being in the car... I did give her today a soother when I had to apop the cat nap. I know not a good idea, it was in the sling and she just wouldn't settle. I probably will throw out all the soothers so Im not tempted anymore...
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2015, 16:16:25 pm »
We do what we can hun, especially with OT. I'm so glad things are getting better at night time. It does make it easier to face the day with a bit of sleep xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 19:58:51 pm »
hey there,
our nights continue to go well, DF and 2 night feeds which is totally fine. however we are having huge difficulties to get LO down for BT. I don't think its any prop issue as she goes down very well for naps. I think its OT but I don't know how to fix it. she is in the 3-2 transition and usually the second nap is short which means we need a CN which happens so late that its too little time to BT. I have capped the CN to 15 mins, LO is still very OT after this even with less than 1 hr to BT. Any ideas? should I ask on the naps board?
thanks...
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2015, 20:08:05 pm »
No it's fine, of course ask here!  :)

Great news about the nights, that's brilliant. Do you think she OT before BT? Or could it be UT dyt? Messing around at BT can be either but if she was going down well previously I would suspect UT. Would you mind posting what the last couple of days looked like wrt naps and how long it took to settle for BT? Ta xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2015, 19:27:20 pm »
I think she is OT as she acts the same when very tired for naps, like pulling her ears, burring her head, screaming. when she is UT she chats in the cot rather than cry.
our last couple of days were like this:
wake up 7:45
1st nap 10.45 - 12.40
2nd nap 16.00 - 16.20 this was OT, I tried to give her more A time today as I thought she may naps short due to being UT, tried to extend nap in the carrier, she closed her eyes a few times but I don't think she actually slept.
BT 6pm. screamed for 30mins until I eventually gave her the dummy, which I never do but I had to attend to my toddler too.

today:
wake up 7.25
1st nap 9.35 - 10.40 (she was very tired for some reason, had night waking of 1.25hrs)
2nd nap 1.25-2.30
CN 5-5-30pm
BT 6.30pm, still fighting sleep (OT) at 7.25

I start dreading BT I must say since its such a struggle. the strange thing is when we sleep trained the very first day she settled after 25 mins, although she must have been OT too. so I really don't understand whats going on...??
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2015, 20:10:35 pm »
Problem is, this is such a wide variation in the S time to BT isn't it? It's really hard to tell what's going on.

I do think an hour won't be enough like on day 2 you posted, even with a 30mi s CN. I'd expect probably closer to 1.5hrs would be better.

We're also expecting quite a bit of ONS there too aren't we? I wonder if that's contributing to the NW's. For example, on the second day you posted, with 3 naps, you're working on an 11hr day there which is definitely not enough at this age now. I would expect closer to 13hrs this late on in the transition. Not saying expend the last A by 2 hrs at all btw, just wondering how we can space your day better for you.

Does she regularly do a 12hr night? Or is that with the long NW's? When she has STTN, how long has it been for, do you remember? Sorry for all the questions, but I am thinking there's a UT/OT loop going on here xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2015, 14:31:10 pm »
hey, thanks for your reply! whats ONS? I was advised here before that 1 hr after a 15 mins cat nap can be enough and she shows signs of being very tired. so I really don't know. and are you saying she should have a 13 hrs day with 3 naps? even though the 2 last naps are crap?
before we sleep trained she would do a 11 hrs night and 3 hrs nap and now it seems a 12hrs night or 13 depending if the night was bad and she tags on from the night wakings. she never slept through the night, since we sleep trained she gets a DF and 2 additional feeds which are fine for me.
so what do I do? often the CN happens so late that I cap it after 15 mins but since this sleep is so short she is still super tired and I feel an hour till BT is enough. she fights BT no matter if she had a long awake time or a short one. she goes down well for naps. I agree there is probably some UT somewhere as during the night wakings she chats away and doesn't really cry... any suggestions?
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2015, 20:07:34 pm »
ONS is over night sleep.

Yes an hour could be fine after a 15mins CN but probably not after a 30mins one  :-\.

So what we do know is that for the first A 3hrs works well doesn't it? Let's set that there and worry about the second A where I think things are going a little haywire for you.

I actually think she could do somewhere close to 3hrs for her second A too. On that day you did 2hrs 45mims A after an hour nap and that resulted in another hour long nap which we'll promise is a little UT. So after a long first nap we know 3hrs 20mins is too much as she had an OT nap in there we think. So how about we try 3hrs for her second one too and hold it?

If we do this and the final 3hrs to BT it will take us really close to the sample routines which doesn't suit all bubbas. It may be that we have to tweak things some more, but we're looking at the pattern based on your bubba and not just sample routines. What we don't know if 3hrs A last thing will be too much or too little for her if she does take a decent nap in the afternoon.

I think our plan should be if that second nap is an hour or thereabouts, try for a 15mins CN and BT one hour later. If the nap is 1.5hrs or over, shoot for 3hrs A to BT and let's see how we go ok?

So something like this:
Wu say 7.30
A 3hrs
S 10.30-12.30
A 3hrs
S 3.30- 5 (hopefully)
A 3hrs
BT 8

We will need to hold it for 3 days and see if a pattern emerges ok? Wdyt? Xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2015, 10:22:25 am »
yeah most times we have an hr to BT after a 15 mins nap but since this didn't really work I tried on saturday a 30 mins nap to see if she would go down better.
yesterday worked really well as we had 2 good naps:
WU 7.25
1st nap 10.20 - 11.45
2nd nap 2.40 - 3.15
BT 6.15, she settled within 5 mins.
so she can def do a full A time after a decent nap, problem is that the 2nd nap often isn't good.I will try and aim for about 3 hrs, a bit less maybe. however we did have a long night waking again after this good day, NW was 1.5 hrs. maybe I have to give it a few days?

I think our plan should be if that second nap is an hour or thereabouts, try for a 15mins CN and BT one hour later. If the nap is 1.5hrs or over, shoot for 3hrs A to BT and let's see how we go ok?

your plan sounds good, will try this the next few days...

the sample you posted wouldn't work I don't think as LO only needs 14 hrs sleep app. will try anyway and see how it goes... thanks a million!
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2015, 19:43:39 pm »
My pleasure. Keep with it. I do think that second nap might need to be pushed out a tad more, but you're definitely heading int  he right direction!  :) xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2015, 20:41:13 pm »
ok we had 3 days of early BT around 6/6.20 which went well in terms of getting her down. However the last 2 days she has been OT so waking after BT every 30 mins. she also continues to have a long NW of 1.5hrs +. I decided not to do a CN as it would have been only around 5.45pm or so andI simply didn't fancy struggling with getting her down again an hr later. her day is only 11 hrs and ONS is 13hrs minus the NW. do you think that could be the problem? a good nap is seldom more than 1.5 hrs  and often the other nap is short, so the day has to be short unless we have a cn. so difficult this whole sleep business...
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2015, 08:47:46 am »
It is difficult isn't it?? Rock and a hard place comes to mind. You need to give her the opportunity to catch up on missed sleep from the nap but she doesn't seen to want to sleep more than 11hrs ONS.

Have you tried pushing out that second nap at all? It does look like she's ready for staggered A times in that the first one is obviously good but that second one always yields a short nap with the same A time. I'd add at least 15mins onto that second one if you can?? Xx



Offline zissi

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2015, 19:19:51 pm »
I have figured that she can do now longer than 3 hrs A time.so the last couple of days she had an A time of 3.10ish which sometimes led to a good nap of 1.20 (usually not longer) and sometimes to a short one of 30/35 mins. we had a CN of 20 mins the last couple of days which pushed BT out to 7.30 and we didn't have long NW (just the usual 1 or 2 for feeding). However she got up at 6, I guess I can't have it all  :P the thing is we are losing now on overall sleep, the night is only 10.5 hrs and naps only 2.5, thats an hour less than her usual 14 hrs. but maybe it will take a few days to settle.
today was like this:
WU 6.10
1st nap 9.20 - 10.05
2nd nap 12.45 - 3pm (I put her down early due to the short 1st nap)
BT 6.40 (she was in the cot at 6.20 which probably was a bit too late, hence it took her a while to settle...
will see what the night brings...
Franziska

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Night wakings every 1-2 hrs
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2015, 19:42:12 pm »
Well it's good to know she can do 2hrs 45mins A after a short nap and that gets you a good nap in! Amazing in fact, keep that one in mind for future! There are always *bad days but actually this was a good amount of sleep in total for the day yk? And we learned about the second A tim too. Hope the night goes well xx