5 week old - can't get to sleep or stay asleep

[labrodyk]

I don't know anymore 

Would you believe my parents got her down tonight at 7, completely unwrapped, no white noise and with her dummy and she hasn't woken now at 11.40?
**sigh** what the hell!?! Lol

[grace annes mommy]

Still sounds like discomfort to me too.   

I wouldn't read too much into your parents getting her down.  Just enjoy it!  Sometimes the grandparents can really tire the little one's out!

[labrodyk]

I know her reflux still bothers her but not sure what else to do about it...

Today I put her in a sleeping bag with her arms out since she settled with my parents and all night with me. whilst we had to replug the dummy after 40 mins she's had 2 big sleeps one of which has been going since 4.30pm. Should I start capping those arvo sleeps to get her down earlier? I'm kind of going by the age old 'never wake a sleeping baby' motto since she gets so little sleep. Our EASY has been like this today;

11-Nov
S: 4.30pm - 5.10pm in swing
E: 6.00pm
A: 6.30pm (bath)
S: 7.00pm - 1.45am
E: 1.45am
S: 2.10am - 4.45am
E: 4.45am
S: 5.10am

12-Nov
WU: 7.40am
E: 8.00am
A:
S: 9.00am - 9.37am. Replugged then slept 9.40am - 11.30am!!!
E: 11.30am
A:
S: 1.25am - 2.10am
** in pram. Wouldn't resettle at all.
E: 3.30pm
S: 4.30pm-5.10pm. Replugged then slept 5.20-7.00 (still asleep).

[grace annes mommy]

We've had days like that when LO just kind of crashes in the late afternoon.  This happened yesterday actually and what I ended up doing was waking her up around 6pm just to change her diaper and give her meds.  Then gave her a bottle and popped her back in bed.  She woke up early this a.m. but not the end of the world.  Like you, I know she needs the sleep and hate waking her.

[labrodyk]

grrrr, I didn't wake her and the rest of the night was;

NF: 10.00pm
NF: 1.30
NF: 4.20
WU: 7.30

There were quite a few dummy replugs in between 1.30 and 7.30. Next time I'll just wake her to change and feed, maybe a bath, and get her back in bed.

This morning was terrible. I had her asleep by 9am after the 7.30 wake but she only slept for 30 minutes and I positively cannot get her back to sleep!

[grace annes mommy]

Sorry for the unsettled night. So tough.

I have little patience resettling for naps...  If it doesn't happen withing 5 or 10 minutes, I just get her up.  I do try to shorten the next A when possible, but it is frustrating as the day becomes so unpredictable.

Any idea what A time she's at now?  Are you shooting for 1.5 hrs?

[labrodyk]

Me too! I get really anxious and annoyed and with my 3yo hanging off my hip I can't get her to resettle.

I'm aiming for 1.5hrs max A time but it really is hit and miss. Since she cries immediately after a bottle, it's hard to know what is hunger, tired, discomfort. The mornings with a good sleep are after such a short A time of being ASLEEP at the 1hr mark. If I try to replicate the next day I get a short nap! I don't know what A to work with after a short nap either because she's so miserable. I aim for 1.5hr but all she does is cry unless she has her dummy in her mouth and even then she drops it constantly. Her suck is SO bad....

S: 9.00-9.30. Resettled in the sling for 40mins finishing at 11.15am
E: 11.20am
S: 12.15pm crying. Not asleep until 12.30 awake at 1.02 (stirred at 1.50). Tried to resettle and she closed her eyes but woke crying again after 10minutes. Got her up and put in swing in the lounge room but it's not very conducive to sleep. HICCUPS again
A:
S:

[grace annes mommy]

Crying after the bottle sounds like discomfort to me...  Is she still on the reflux formula?  Have you put a post on the colic/reflux board?  May help to get a couple more eyes on this to help.

Have you tried putting the swing in a dark room with white noise?  My LO won't take long naps in the swing, but I know a lot of LOs do.

I am finding A times so unreliable too.  Also tired cues are not clear for us at all.  DD had a dr's appt on Friday and had an A time of 4hrs!!  Not a single tired cue the whole time but obviously she had to be exhausted!

[labrodyk]

It does seem like discomfort but I just can't find a way to resolve it. I've heard about a different medication which I might ask the GP about because the paediatrician didn't even believe me that it was reflux  . The same paed told me to take her off the thickened formula which I did - didn't bother me so much because she was bringing up a lot of milk on it. Might post on colic/reflux board.

This morning was;

WU/E: 7.20
A: yawned at 7.32, touching eyes at 7.50
S: into room at 55min A for nappy change. She didn't cry when I put her down and she was asleep by 8.30 (1hr 10min A) but of course woke at 9.09. I replugged and tried to resettle stroking her head but by 9.30 she was still wide awake so got her up but has whinged and cried since. Going to try putting her back to bed now at 9.50.
S: 10.10-10.54 (after 10 mins of patting her on her side)
E: 11.00-11.20 (fussiest feed ever and heaps of spilling whilst drinking)

So hard and confusing to know what A time to work to. if I do 1.5hrs is that just the A outside of her room?

I can't believe your daughter showed no tired signs for 4hrs! Audrey cries so much I don't know what's what!!

[labrodyk]

the rest of yesterday was:

S: 12.30-1.15 pm. Replugged and patted and slept until 3
E:
A
S: 4.30pm into sling and dozed on and off until 5.10
A: bath
E: 6.20
S: 6.45 into bed but cried so much; asleep by 7 after replugging a hundred times

NF: 1.00am
S: 1.20am - 4.00am
NF: 4.00am
S: 4.30am - 5.50am
S: 5.50am - 6.50am (replugged dummy)
S: 6.55am - 7.35am (replugged dummy)

E: 7.40am - was really fussy and didn't want to drink anything
A: was tired and grumpy after only 30 minutes awake
S: Into bed at 8.45am (1hr10min awake). Crying and fussing, spitting dummy until almost 9.00am then slept 40 minutes again. I couldn't be bothered trying to resettle so I got her up but she won't stop crying so I took her back to bed and tried to resettle until 10.30 but she wouldn't so she's up again.
E: 10.30am - not hungry and drank barely 50ml/2oz

What can I do to help her with this morning sleep. I'm going around in circles with tired signs and A times and nothing seems to be working. I probably should have got her up at 6.50 but I'm absolutely shattered and was waiting for my toddler to come in at 7.00am. Didn't think she'd go back to sleep to be honest.

Do I also just have a major dummy dependence issue?!
 

[grace annes mommy]

I can't believe your daughter showed no tired signs for 4hrs! Audrey cries so much I don't know what's what!!

DD2 does roll with it pretty well.  Your Audrey sounds so much like my DD1, though so I really feel for you right now.  DD1 ended up with reflux and food intolerances that were really hard to sort out.  But also part of her crying and crying was temperment.  Spirited/touchy thing.  FWIW, she's quite an amazing 7 year old, but it was a long road.  Do you have an idea about Audrey's temperment yet?

Do I also just have a major dummy dependence issue?!

Possible, I guess.  I know the dummy can be soothing for refluxers, though so that may be why she seems to need it so much?  You could take it away but she may be that much harder to settle...  I don't know, honestly.  What do you think? 

If she fell back asleep at 6:50, I think that's totally fine. She probably wasn't quite ready to get up.  Our first nap of the day has been short here too.  My DD1 also did this.  It's so annoying sorting out A times after a short first nap!  What we've ended up doing today was a catnap in the a.m., then the other naps were longer with the last one ending at 5pm.  So I didn't bother with the catnap before bed and did an earlier bt. 

TBH, your EASY doesn't look terrible.  I know it's frustrating to have to keep resettling, but I think it's pretty common at this age.  Your nights are also what we were getting a few weeks ago.  Then we hit a nasty WW last week, but things have improved since.  It's that she's so fussy, right?  Having to resettle constantly plus all the crying in between is so draining.  I've been there.  That's why I keep wondering about discomfort - reflux/allergies/something else going on...

[labrodyk]

My Audrey is exactly the same as my DS except worse. He is super spirited/touchy/grouchy and also had severe silent reflux and food intolerances as he got older! However, we didn't have the added issue of the dummy so once we finally got him to sleep, he was asleep!! He is a ridiculously intelligent 3yo now and still drives me to the brink of insanity but it was a ridiculously long road and I've blocked most of it out.

Today's naps were;
9.00am - 9.40am
11.30am - 12.05pm
3.45pm - 5.35pm

BT 7.00pm. Spat the dummy and cried every two minutes until 7.25 but woke crying at 8.00pm. Replugged again and hoping she goes to sleep.

I tried to go without the dummy this afternoon and it's like her lifeline, she wouldn't stop crying through shush/pat or even in my arms. Her eyes are constantly wide open. I want her to have it but only if she can keep hold of it! It's the same situation with her feeding in that her suck is terrible but I don't know how to fix that....

I don't mind resettling if she would do it but I did she just keeps her eyes wide open looking around and crying and fighting her wrap, kicking her legs around and just not wanting a bar of me other than picking her up and taking her out of her room. I do that, and she's grizzly and crying and not happy to just sit or lay anywhere.

I'm also not sure what I'm even doing with my EASY - 3, 3.5,4 hours? Today was 3 without all the naps but she barely drank a thing. Sleeps and feeds are much better at 4hrs but I can't get here there. By the time I've gotten her to sleep and stay asleep I don't know whether to wake her either!

[grace annes mommy]

My Audrey is exactly the same as my DS except worse. He is super spirited/touchy/grouchy and also had severe silent reflux and food intolerances as he got older! However, we didn't have the added issue of the dummy so once we finally got him to sleep, he was asleep!! He is a ridiculously intelligent 3yo now and still drives me to the brink of insanity but it was a ridiculously long road and I've blocked most of it out.

THis is my DD1.  Except it took us 7 years to block it out, lol.

I'm not sure what to tell you about her suck.  I'm assuming they checked for tongue tie when they corrected the lip tie? 

What's her sleeping set-up? In the crib?  In her room? In your room?  Blackout blinds?  White noise?  Just thinking if she's a touchy sleeper like my DD1, maybe we can tweak things?

At this age, I think she's still 'supposed' to be on 3 hr EASY.  But you could always change the pattern if she's not hungry yet.  You could even feed before naps just not feed to sleep.

[labrodyk]

Except it took us 7 years to block it out, lol.

LOL! Why do we go back a second time knowing how difficult it was the first time?!

I'm not sure what to tell you about her suck.  I'm assuming they checked for tongue tie when they corrected the lip tie?

Yes, her tongue is fine apparently! Despite the terrible feeding she is putting on weight well and steadily so I'm just going to let go of the stress of that and put it down to her being less than lady-like with her feeding.

What's her sleeping set-up? In the crib?  In her room? In your room?  Blackout blinds?  White noise?  Just thinking if she's a touchy sleeper like my DD1, maybe we can tweak things?

Ok, so she's in an adjoining room without a door to my room. Whether you call it a room, more like a walk in wardrobe (we live in a a very small 1940's home). It fits her crib, change table and a chair but very squishy. I assume she doesn't know any better given she's the smallest thing in the room .  She has black out blinds but some light can filter in through the open doorway from my room but I've put up a dark towel to try and combat that. White noise/lullaby music, doesn't seem to make much of a difference but we have lullabys on - only because she's so close to us that DH and I find it hard to sleep with the white noise.

At this age, I think she's still 'supposed' to be on 3 hr EASY.  But you could always change the pattern if she's not hungry yet.  You could even feed before naps just not feed to sleep.

So I should be waking her at that 3hr mark? It's just that by the time I settle or resettle, she's awake again! She also feeds a lot better closer to 4 hourly. I fed her this morning at the 3hr mark when she woke up and she was so disinterested. We are doing a bit of feeding sporadically (not to sleep of course) and includes a few feeds before a nap.

This is why I'm finding our EASY so horrific. I'd hardly call it an EASY. more of a mess than anything! Today looked like this as we were out at the health nurse, then christmas shopping so a MASSIVE crash in the afternoon and woke after 40minutes at bedtime;

NF: 12.30
NW: 3.00 - replugged and went straight back to sleep. Should I have fed her here?
NF: 5.50 - took a while to resettle with multiple dummy replugs.

WU: 8.00
E: very little; topped up throught awake time but really didn't want anything
A: Health nurse appointment
S: 10.30 for 20 minutes in the car
A: pram at the shops
S: 12.00 - 12.30
E: 1.00; still fed poorly (probably from lack of sleep and acted disinterested)
A: pram/car
S: 2.00 - 2.45. Resettled with multiple replugs until she finally slept from 3pm-6pm
E: 6.00
A: bath
S: 7.20, asleep by 7.30 but woke at 8.00pm and we spent another 45-60 minutes replugging and settling (leaving the room to see what she'd do) until she finally went to sleep again.

Will see what the night brings....

Just also wanted to say thank you for the ongoing support. I know i sound like negative nancy but I really am doing my best...

[grace annes mommy]

Audrey's room sounds just like my DD1's "nursery"  It was basically a closet, couldn't even fit a chair.  She didn't mind.    Her room sounds nice and dark which is good.  I'm wondering about maybe doing white noise for naps as it blocks out more sound than lullabies.  If it drives you batty at night, you could always just do lullabies at night.  We use a really loud fan which has been a lifesaver as my DD1 stomps around the house constantly.  Is her crib mattress elevated?  Have you considered trying to have her sleep in something else like a bassinet or rockandplay?  Just wondering if it might be cozier since she's still little.

How does she settle for sleep?  Is she self settling once her dummy's in?  For short naps, have you tried going in before she starts stirring and patting or replugging?

I can definitely see that her days are a bit all over the place.  I'm wondering if set eating times would help mold the day a bit.  Maybe try a 3.5/4hr feeding schedule since she seems less interested at 3hrs since she's gaining well. The first feed might be a top up depending on her night feeds. You may end up feeding right before some naps which I think is fine at this point.  But if you try to feed at appx. the same time each day for a few days, it might help a pattern emerge.  I would probably only wake her from a nap at 4.5 hrs since the last feed, just for the sake of fitting them all in before bed.  I would shoot for an A of 1 hr 15/30 after a good sleep and shorter as needed after a short nap. 

Just also wanted to say thank you for the ongoing support. I know i sound like negative nancy but I really am doing my best...

You're doing a great job!  Taking care of these LOs is such hard work.  Be sure you're taking care of yourself too.