Distracted baby, impossible to sleep train, please help.

[Fifilottie]

Hello,

This is the first time I have posted on here and really hope there is someone who can solve my problems. It is a feed and sleep combined problem as they have become intertwined.

I started DS on EASY at about 6 weeks( I had major feeding issues to focus on previous, he is bf) It worked really well. He never comfort  sucked and chose his thumb for that. I had started shh patting and that was going ok. He knew it meant sleep although it still took on average 10 to 15 mins. I had to tweak EASY around school run pram excursions and the fact that he isn't the angel baby with long naps but 45 mind, despite my effort of WtoS, extending etc...I relaxed and figured he may get there and would do PU/PD at four months. He is now four and half months and a month ago it all went wrong. I feel like a failure.

He became a distracted feeder, arching his back, looking around etc....even in a dark room, he would find some glimmer of light or a epicene of my clothing. He would act hungry, trying to eat my shoulder but refused to feed. In the end, after having a starving baby who tried to make up for the lost calories in the day I suffered, and still, a few more night wakenings. In the end I discovered he would feed in the day when sleepy and that was it. So now I have had to reject EASY and he is obsessed with nursing to sleep. I can sometime feed him on waking but not always. These are the only times I can feed him. Our routine has gone to pot, nothing is predictable and I can't go anywhere, which is awful for my 5 yo. Has anyone been able to turn this around without starving their baby, please help.

Apologies as this is a feed, sleep question. .thank you x

[zissi]

hi there, I feel for you. we had major feeding issues too and from 2-4 months my LO would only dreamfeed or when just awake. this changed gradually, however I still have to feed her lying down in the dark bedroom but she would take feeds now as well when awake and hungry enough. she was tongue tied which meant she wasn't able to transfer milk effectively. this is still the case but she is less fussy now at the breast and I got around the issue by offering her feeds constantly and let her feed whenever she wanted at night too as like in your case the sleepy feeds were the best. what sort of BF issues did you have?

[Fifilottie]

Thank you for your reply. It is reassuring that someone else has been through this and understand how frustrating it is.  I have re read my post and seen it says major bf issues previous. Maybe I am exaggerating but they felt major at the time. .was shallow latch issues I think, therefore crack, sores and ended up in hospital with severe mastitus and an abcess. This is part of the reason that I feel so dismayed with his refusals as I have tried so hard to not give it up and it became easy. .as a result though he does get a bedtime bottle as previously my soreness just couldn't handle cluster feeds. I wondered if the bottle had caused the issues but he fusses over them when awake and alert( I tested it out) . I am so worried that feeding to sleep is creating a rod for my own back reg. his ability to self sooth. Has your LO been able to self sooth or does she still depend on nursing?

Thank u x

[anna*]

How old is your baby?

[Fifilottie]

He is 4 and a half months.

[anna*]

Can you nurse him before his nap and put him in his crib awake? I know of quite a few mums who do AES rather than EAS, but the key is not feeding to sleep, so you can still feed before the nap but then use shush-pat or PUPD to settle him to sleep.

[Fifilottie]

Hello,

Yes I think I will try an AES idea and try and rouse him slightly before putting him down. I have tried this a bit but was tricky to wake him.mayve I need to persevere more. Had an awful night last night where he woke at three and I couldn't get him back to sleep until 5, using every method under the sun. Even feeding to sleep didn't work at 3 alhough I thought he should be hungry as he only took four ounces of expressed milk for dreamfeed(or rather his 10 0 clock feed as he wakes for it now. .should I drop this, is it not working now?) He has hardly fed in the night and taken only a few gulps from me this morning, and wouldn't do that until half an hour ago, even in the dark room he was distracted. He woke up at 5.45 this morning and  after trying to get him back to sleep for an hour and a half And feed him, he resisted and I had to get my daughter up so had to give up. I then tried to get her ready while rocking him in the pram and the she screamed and woke him up. He should be incredibly over tired. Am gonna go up and try and get him down for a well needed nap soon. Not sure what is going on. Hardly feeding, hardly sleeping yet still able to smile at times. At the end of my tether so sad as every time I pick him up he tries to eat me and when it comes to the crunch, even getting him position, he arches. Feel so sorry for him as I don't understand him. .again, this seems to have become a feeding issue also. Should I try a bottle again in case it is breast refusal?. Such a shame. . Any thoughts very much appreciated I don't know what to do x

[anna*]

Maybe put a post up on the breastfeeding board?

[*Liz*]

I used AES with my 2nd child - she was always super drowsy but stirring when I put her in the crib - worked much better for all of us  . She also short napped if not fed before sleep, but with the AES pattern she was just great.

She never developed any prop issues. I may have got lucky I know, but equally even if I had I could have solved it later on anyway.

4 months is a terrible age for being distracted though  .

[zissi]

I think the bottle may be the issue as he prefers the faster flow there. we never gave bottles but my LO was fussy at the breast anyway from very early on as she could not get the milk fast enough. can you cut out the bottle and see how it goes? also try feeding in the bath, while walking around etc. have a look at this link: http://kellymom.com/hot-topics/fussy-while-nursing/. Know its so frustrating. 4.5 months is a prime age for distractible babies, so it could be only that?

[zissi]

so what we do is, I give her a feed before her nap but make sure she goes into the cot awake, it usually takes another 5 mins of shush pat to settle her and I also feed her straight after waking up to ensure that she gets enough milk. so she feeds probably every 1.5 hrs but in my opinion hunger comes first and you can still sleep train when your LO is a bit older. we did it at 6 months and it worked like a charme.

[becj86]

How was LO during that waking from 3-5am? Wanting to sleep or wanting to play?

[Fifilottie]

Thank you for your replies x

I tried the bottle today during a time when I thought he might be hungry but he sort of bit at it and let the milk run out of his mouth. This was in a light room though. He only really shows me any hunger cues when I go to his room when tired or on the sofa where I used to feed him. .unless I am completely not understanding his cues. .possible...oops sorry again, going down the feeding root again.

- I have also started feeding on wake ups as I am never sure he gets enough on a sleepy feed. .anyway on to sleep. . .so with you there zissi. .makes me feel less worried but he won't always do it.

Awful day of naps(and feeds) couldn't even feed to sleep, or shh pat, or rock. Ended up putting him in a sling. He had 50 minutes sleep today and that was broken over three failed naps, although four attempted. He has gone to sleep on his bottle tonight and took a staggering 8 oz. fingers crosses for tonight, as we all are, I am exhausted x

Last night between 3 and 5 it was more like he wanted to play but got moody tired after an hour and a half, like he would in the day and then slept another 45 mins. .bit like a daytime nap . So confused.

[*Liz*]

Do you want to post your day in an EAS type style? I suspect you are ending up feeding too often and trying to get naps too often, but impossible to say without seeing the timing really  .

[Fifilottie]

Hi again.

Liz,  I will post what has happened on the past two days. It isn't a very good routine, I think I know that. He was so good at the three hour EASY at three months so it is a shame. His wake up times have never been consist ant though, they range between 5.45 and 8. To be honest that probably shows where I am also going wrong. have had a better weekend with feeding though.

So, Friday NW at 4 so I put him in the koo dii(pop up cot) so I could lie next to him with a hand on his chest. I was exhausted and couldn't manage. He cried but slept until 8.00. I therefore rested felt ready to tackle the feed to sleep thing and try to feed only on waking.

Friday NW , 10, 4pm(sat)'
W 8.00
E 8.  - 8.15 ish, good feed (yes!) in dark bedroom.
A 8.15 - 9.30
Shh pat to sleep, he fought a lot so this mingled with a bit of PU/PD whilst bouncing(cheating I know but my focus was to show that he didn't need to feed to sleep)ended up lying him the koo dii and lay next to him.
S 10.15( it took me that long) -11
E. 11 - 11.15, good feed again
A 11.15 - 12.30
Used method above to get him to sleep
S 12.55 - 13.30
E 13.30 - 13.45 good feed
A 13.45 until 15.30 ( we went out shopping with daughter)
S 15.30 - 16.00 in the car on the way home,
E 16.10 - 16.20 with a struggle as had to transfer from car seat up to his dark bedroom and was already stimulated etc..
A 16.20
E 18.20 formula - 7oz
S 19.00 just needed a little bit of shh patting as winding stirred him slightly.

NW strangely he didn't wake bet 9 and 10 as usual so dreamfeed at 10.40, took only 4 oz, mixed formula and expressed. Also woke again at 2.45, not interested in feeding so used previous methods to get him back to sleep, back to sleep at 4.00.
W- 7am
E 7 until 7.20 , good feed but fell back to sleep until 8.30, a first.
A 8.30 - 10.00
( had to change today as nap times coincided with feed times)
E 10.00-10.20( he came off before sleep so shh patted, pupd, rocked to sleep.
S 10.40 - 11.20
A 11.20 - 12 50
E 12.50 - 12.555 ish, struggled to feed
S 13.10 woke at 14.00, tried feeding again, fed for five mins and fell back to sleep until 14.30
A 14.30 until 16.00
S 16.10 until 16.40pram sleep
E 16.45 17.00 good feed, and and he fed in the lounge and although my daughter was quiet she popped the telly on. DS got lots of praise for this. So, so pleased, it has been so long since I could feed in the lounge.
A 17.00 - 18.30
E 18.30 formula 7 oz, think he would have taken more but didnt want to over feed or for him to fall asleep on the bottle
S 7.20 , after shh patting. He was very calm. .
. .and let's see what the night brings.

As you can see the 'routine' is all over the place, it all changed when he started to only feed when sleepy a month ago of more. I think my whole day is predicted by wake up times and when he chooses to feed. The last two days are unusual as he usually wakes up at 6 ish ( 2 or 3 NW )and I struggle to get him back to sleep. Sometimes he won't eat first thing though if I have fed in the night and then this changes things. Nothing is set in stone. You can probably see that i have got all muddled up, so I guess in that sense, surely he feels that way too.

Sorry for long post and hope it makes sense and that you can help, thank you x