How do I get my 11 month old back on track after regression?

[Jmpratt]

I've had lots of help from Martini and Kellyjs a month back so if either of you can recall or go back and read my posts, that would be great. I tried to message Martini directly but am not sure it worked.  However I will accept any and all insight!!

I started pantleys no cry around 7 months.  I did gentle removal method then weaning from rocking them pu/pd then gradual withdrawal which is finally what worked for us for 1 week until we travelled and then got sick....we began nursing or feeding to sleep again and LO seems back to square 1.  Trouble settling at BT and 2-3 NW's.  I tried to go right back to gradual withdrawal after she was better but she did not go for it since it was so far from nursing or feeding to sleep.  Do I need to got hrough all the steps again with her?

Also, she is stretching out her A times, 4 hours in am and in pm.  If she takes long nap in am then it's hard to fit a Cn in and then have 4 hrs of wake time before bed so there's this issue too. 

Plus we think she is teething!  A perfect storm.  I just want to check and see how I can help her get back to self soothing.

Yesterday
WU 745
Nap 11-1230
Nap 4-5 too late, didn't fall asleep in car as I hoped
BT 830, nursed to sleep after crying
NW at 12 and 2, bottle big times and took 30-45 min to settle back to sleep
Nw at 545 but put herself back to sleep

Today
WU 7-730
Nap 11-1215
Nap 230-330
BT 730, nursed, pantleys gentle removal, in crib before completely asleep


Lots of fluctuation.  Don't think she's ready for transition to 1 nap yet. 

Thanks so much.

Julie

[Kellyjs]

Hi Julie, nice to *see you again 

Don't worry, you've been through this before, you can do it again. It'll be much quicker this time.

I actually think your problem lies in the 2-1 transition. Yes she's not quite ready for one nap but I feel we need to tweak the routine a little more for you. I'll post the link about the 2-1 for you to have a read through but basically we need to work towards one nap. In doing that, I would suggest extending that first A then capping that second nap a little more. Even if it's just 15mims in the morning (extending by), then only doing a 45mims CN in the afternoon. Wdyt? A good place to start? You've also got room to increase the length of your day too. It's very usual to have 13hr days during transitions, so we could go that route? It's totally up to you Xx

From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

[Jmpratt]

Thanks for your response Kelly!!

This sounds doable.  So you don't think it has anything to do with a sucking sleep association?

Also a few questions.
To extend the am nap, I extend her a time?
Is it ok to feed to sleep for Cn?
You said I've done it before and can do it again, should I be weaning from sleep associations while tweeting nap schedule?
Last, at daycare she has difficulty taking a long nap CN of noise.  She has been extending her A times and then just decreased A time between 1st and 2nd nap. 

Thanks, very sleep deprived but grateful mama here

[Jmpratt]

Omt, would this be a sample schedule?  If not could you post one that would be a 13 he day with the naps you are suggesting?

Wu 7
Nap 1115-1245
Nap 345-430
BT 8

[Kellyjs]

I would stop it altogether just like you did last time. You can feed to sleep for the CN if necessary, but ideally if we can find a routine that fits for a few weeks before it needs tweaking again, hopefully we can break the association altogether.

That looks like a good routine. I might bring BT earlier than 8 for now. Perhaps try for 7.30pm for a few days and see how that works. We have got room to extend it more but I'm always wary of extending the last A, I'd prefer to extend either the first or second to try and get a decent nap in without you having to feed her off to sleep xx

[Jmpratt]

Things are going great!

I put her to bed after 4 hrs A time and she put herself to sleep with no crying!! I was ecstatic.  And thought that I could just try to have her CN over by 4 430 and that would work.  But I see what you are saying.  She slept through except 1x, had to nurse might have been teething but no wakefulness and settled back to sleep easily. 

Could you send a sample schedule?

WU 7
Nap 1115-1245
CN 4-430
BT 730

7?

How late is too late for CN? What's a reasonable A time Btween CN and BT?

Thanks so so much.  I'm so happy and thankful for your help. 

[Kellyjs]

Yay 

The BT might need tweaking a bit as I said, but it think we'll try what you said as a routine to begin with. That looks great. A 4-4.30pm CN will be just fine for a 7.30pm BT. Remember they usually need a shorter A after a shorter nap, so I do think this will work just fine. I had something similar with DD when she started the transition although she did prefer a slightly shorter A to BT than that, but knowing yours I think 3hrs would work well. Remember to watch out for OT NW's in the beginning part of the night. If that happens we'll shorten the last. A a little. Keep me posted ok? Xx

[Jmpratt]

Great thanks. 

In the meantime, LO is just waking up from her nap 11-1pm!  I'm very curious how she'll do with a CN after a 2 hr nap.  Any thoughts?  If she doesn't go down try EBT?  I did try this once last week at 6 or 630 and she woke after 49 min and didn't go back to bed til 9. But may be it'll work now after getting back on track.

 I'll definitely be keeping you posted!

[Jmpratt]

So here's how things ended up:

WU 7
Nap 11-1
CN 4-430
BT put herself to sleep at 845 (I started around 815 and she struggled but fell to sleep)

I'm thinking I need to cap the first nap? I was not ready for her to sleep 2 hrs, it's very rare. And I knew she wouldn't be able to from 1pm to BT.

Any suggestions for tweets or do I just keep pushing the first nap back? Cap CN at 20 min?

She rarely gets 2.5 hrs of daytime sleep so it makes sense that she didn't fall to sleep til 4.75 hrs of A time.  Or she was ot with just 30 min nap and 7.75 hrs of wake time. My guess was

Thanks

[Kellyjs]

Yes I had to cap the first nap too in order to get a CN in. It's a bit annoying I know 

I would cap at 1.5hrs until we can look at moving the nap further out so it's not such a long A to BT causing you that issue again. I think we're a few weeks off that sticky situation hopefully xx

[Jmpratt]

Ok I'm realizing that I'm checking in daily and I really appreciate the hand holding.  I thought about the fact that I'm needing someone to hold my hand while LO Ned's me to hold hers!

Here's what I'm thinking after today: she is pulling 13 hr days and sleeping 11 hrs.  So if this is the case, I can try calculating bedtime 13 hrs from her WU time and see if that's a good window.

WU around 730, give or take bc she rolled around talking in her bed until 745, based on BT, I'll bet it was 715.
Nap 11-1225 (she woke herself up probably bc she hadn't been up as long)
CN 4-430
BT 815 (tried at 730, not tired and wanted to get out of chair and walk around, put in crib at 8 and rolled around talking and playing then put herself to sleep after 15) nights crying!!

Overall it went well and it's all more information right?

Did you mean that it will take a few weeks to transition to 1 nap?  Sticky situation of late BT or upcoming sticky situation? Just clarifying.

[Kellyjs]

Sticky situation where the nap is late enough for one nap but not quite, and there's no room for a CN before BT!

That's really good to know that 11hrs is the NT sleep, it helps us try and sort the days out for you. I think we should hold what you did there for another 2 days and see if a pattern emerges? It might be that some earlier waking in the morning might start to happen, we'll just keep an eye on that. Any OT NW's in the beginning half of the night last night that you noticed? That is quite a long A after only 30mins CN, I'm thinking we'll need to shift the naps later soon but I'd like to see how she does for thnext couple of days if ok? Xx

[Jmpratt]

Yes to EW! 1130 and 2am for the last 3 nights at least. Is that OT? Or maybe teething. 

She has put herself to sleep very easily for 3 nights now since I'm basing BT on the 13 hr day.  We feed her when she wakes and if we try to rock her or do what I did at BT (sitting next to crib parting bed letting her hold my finger some) she doesn't settle.  If she settles she's up again in 30-40 min 😩

Any thoughts on weaning the night fed endings or do you think it's bc of OT and once we get that under control she won't wake?

I don't like feeding her at night but rocking her breaks my back and doesn't work and I'm exhausted to boot. 

Any ideas would be great! 

[Kellyjs]

Actually I wouldn't expect this to be OT per se. I'd expect OT NW's to be after the first sleep cycle or two after BT.

Have you tried ibuprofen for teething just in case?

Does she get enough milk feeds in during the day? Just wondering because I wouldn't expect her to wake up after the next sleep cycle again if you manage to settle her without feeding. That, to me, sounds like what a 4-6mo would do when we just try and resettle and we know then they are hungry because they wake again yk?

If you had a prop with the feedings I'd expect for her to wake up more often. Hmmm  Xx

[Jmpratt]

This makes a lot of sense and I've considered it as possibility since I've started to supplement with formula and trying to figure out the right amount.  Pcp says splashed on her weight she does not need to eat overnight at least in the middle of the night.  But it would make sense if she wakes up 3 hrs after BT feeding for another feeding and then almost 3 hrs later for one last one then sleeps for 5 hrs (which is considered sttn right?).  I'm going to add another feeding or another 1-2 oz to her feelings and see if that helps. 

We tried Advil or Tylenol at BT to see if that helped but it didn't seem to.  However that was before she started settling on her own at BT so I'm going to try it again. 

Thanks so much for your daily check ins and responses!!  I refer to you as my mommy friend online but more like a mentor.  It has meant so much to have this site since I don't have family or friends who do have done this method. 

I'll keep you posted!!