How do I get my 11 month old back on track after regression?

[Kellyjs]

I think it's always nicer having people to talk to on here than IRL. Some don't want to hear all the ins and outs whereas we love the details  . It's saved my sanity on more than one occasion so if I can pay it forward, it makes me feel great too  .

I'd definitely add a couple of ounces in to the bottle if she's draining them. We want her to stop eating when she's full rather than if the milk has run out. It really will get better soon though, it's so much easier when the milk feeds aren't a factor anymore but I have a feeling yours might like to keep them a little longer than some  .

I also think once we finally get to one nap things will settle down a lot more. It might be a tricky couple of months, but it's not forever yk? I actually miss the NF's with DD. Once the one nap is in place the NW's and NF's should start to settle down anyway, if not we can always make a plan for that when the time comes xx

[Jmpratt]

Such a good update!!!

Last few days, LO has slept from 8-8, only waking 1.5 hrs in!! Best sleep in months! I think this proves your theory was right. Trying not to be too hard on myself and just so happy.

She has slept in later and today went like this:

Wu 8
Nap 1-230
Bt 745!!
She was ot so needed some more help going to sleep but has been asleep for 4 hrs now 😊 hoping the night goes ok but know if she's shifting to one nap it might get rough.

She's been going to sleep beautifully on her own the last few nights.
Hard time believing she's transitioning already but it appears that way.

Thanks again, your help is invaluable.

Any thoughts about the 1.5 hr into bt wake up?

More updates soon.

[Kellyjs]

This is amazing! Yay!  honestly this is down to your hard work.

I do think there's a little bit of OT as you said by the end of the day. I wouldn't want to shorten the day much more tbh as there's only so much sleep you can expect overnight.

I think that nap needs to be pushed further out soon. You could wait a couple of days, or just sneak a cheeky extra 15mins in on that first A today? Ideally we want that nap to be closer to 2hrs then I think that'll help with the shorter A to BT and give you a 12-hr day xx

Perhaps in time something like this:

Wu 8
Nap 1.30-3.30
BT 8

[Jmpratt]

Ok Kellysj!  I've tried to write like 5 times now and hoping I get to finish so it this time.

So I think you were right about the WU's being actual hunger.  I started giving her a bottle at BT (4 oz) and she had just 1 WU 1.5 hrs in for 2 nights but then slept through til 745-8 both days.  Then she started she fling and taking a late nap at 1-230/240 and stayed up til BT.  Here's our issue now that's probably the cpsticky situation you mentioned.  She hasn't been able to soothe herself after 5 hrs of wake time so I have nursed or rocked her to sleep.  Then she wakes bu probably bc of that,  one night it was 4 times.

Here was her schedule yesterday and today:

Sat
WU 8
nap 1115-1230
CN 4-430
BT 830 (tried at730 but not tired and wanted to get out of chair, had to rock at 830 no self soothing)
WU at 1130 to eat
WU at 6 to eat, wouldn't settle til 645, back to sleep, didn't want to do this but didn't want her to wake for the day at 630, let me know what you would do

Sun
WU 830
Nap 12-2 (our schedule affected this, I should've kept her up til 1230-1 so nap was closer to BT)
I decided against nap and we would just do early bedtime.  She shows no signs at 545 or 6 so I thought maybe she was doing 5 hr wake time after such a long nap.  (I also could have capped nap like we talked about.  I wanted to try the 1 nap thing if she's trying to transition).
BT 740
Tried at 645 and not interested, couldn't self soothe at 730 so I rocked. 

Would l Be to hear your thoughts.  I know it's gonna take some time for her to transitiOn.   My frustration is that she and I get a week maybe 5 days where she's putti herself right to sleep, sleeping 8-12 hr stretches (1 night of 12 hrs) and then poof back to "square 1" so to speak.  It's an important goal of mine to help her self soothe while staying with her.  I don't feel like that's happening bc of the changes that can throw her right off. 

my question is do other LO's not sttn more than a hand full of times while doing the method? 

When would you have tried BT with LO if she named from 12-2?? 

Thanks so much! Feeling exhausted and frustrated,
Julie

[Jmpratt]

I am just realizing that there is a second page!  I thought my first update didn't post and hadn't seen your reply then either.  I know what I did not do right then for the past 2 days, I was going backwards not pushing forwards.  Any thoughts about the question about sttn though?

She's been up at 1030 and 1145-wide awake and talking at 1145 🙁 I know the schedule today and my choices have to do with it....but she was screaming like she was in pain and stopped as soon as I came in put her arms up to be picked up and started talking.  I can't stop feeling like we're reinforcing that we'll help her back to sleep every time.  We still feed her most times of and I made sure she had enough feedings today.

So tired. 

Daycare will probably get her back on track and then we'll see. 

Thanks! 

[Kellyjs]

Hey Julie, I'm so sorry you're having NW's again 

I'm wonder if the molars are trying to make n appearance? They can bounce around under there for a little while causing grief before they come through. I remember at this age we had some nightmare type WU's. Only just reminded myself as have just had it pop up on another thread. It may be nightmares but also you've got the 1yo developmental leap coming up too I would suspect?

Ok so the BT bottle is a winner isn't it?! Yay!

So the wide awake screaming thing happened after the one nap day? It's a difficult one to judge wrt your question about STTN as yours has been notoriously bad at it I'm afraid. Yes, we do expect some OT during the transiiton but generally it should be ok to get them back off to sleep as long as the OT doesn't build up too much.

Can you keep an eye on how much ONS she's getting too? Logging all the NW's and how long she's up for too. I want to make a plan where we can find out how much night sleep we can expect so we're not setting ourselves up for failure iykwim?

With a nap of 2hrs at that time I would've tried a 11.5hr day in the early stages of the transition so BT
7/7.15pm. You're doing absolutely everything right, I just want to reassure you of that ok? It's a tricky situation and we all muddle through, it just seems horrendous at the time.

Fwiw I didn't get the right A time for DD last thing for the transition for ages. Actually still don't think I have it right. She's a madam in that she takes 30mins to fall asleep no matter what A time I use. As lomg as she's happy, I just sit downstairs hearing her sing (badly) and only go to her if she's upset. It's just something I've had to deal with.

Ok, yes I do think your routine is going a little bit in the opposite direction, but we need to find what works best for her night sleep. It does seem like the two nap routine is robbing her night sleep quite drastically now isn't it? How well is she going down for naps atm? Is it easier at a certain time? You mention difficulty after 5hrs A, is that just to BT?

Sorry if this is a bit jumbled and has lots of questions! DD seems intent on playing with mummy rather than daddy atm  xx

[Jmpratt]

First of all, you never have to apologize for anything!  The help you give and time you invest is very appreciated.  Hope you get some rest too! 

Yes to all of the things you suggested it might be, teething, walking, talking, dreams.  My LO slept through the the night when she was swaddled....then it all changed of course.  Are spirited babies poor independent sleepers?  She's had a week here and there over the last 6 months but it doesn't seem to stick. 

What is ONS?  Overnight something? 

Here are the last 2 days schedules including wake ups and details:

Starting with Sunday-Monday
NW 1130 fed and right back to sleep
NW 1230 tried to rock, wouldn't settle, finally fed, up for 30 min
EW 515 nursed, took 30 to settle back

Monday
WU 8
Nap 115-235
BT 8, cried for about 10-15 min with me next to crib then fell asleep while holding my finger
NW #1 930, up for about 20 min, tried to settle the same way i did at BT, very distressed, I fed her bc I thought she meant get be hungry, fell back to sleep easily with bottle.
NW #2 12am up for 30-40 min, dad did bottle, didn't settle , crying again, I went in and nursed, back to sleep til 740am

Tuesday
WU 740
Added bottle in am to rule out that f she's still waking for feedings
Nap 1045-1150
CN 225-3
BT 8, crying, seemed more distressed, wouldn't settle by herself, rocked her to sleep
She yawned around 630 but I didn't think she would go to bed that early and tried it the night before and she didn't see tired enough.

NW 9pm, nursed, right back to sleep

So it looks like 2 patterns are emerging: early event WU's from OT? And more wakefulness/ harder to settle at 12am WU.  OT too? 

Help! 

This reply is lots of stuff too but it took effort for me to write it!

Let me know what else would be helpful to know.  I got some support from a mommy friend today and am feeling More accepting of where things are and I'm still acting to help her figure it out!

Thanks as usual!

[Kellyjs]

Ha ha I always get people with that one. ONS is overnight sleep 

Ok, I think this tells us on one nap days the A time to BT is too long. If we're to continue with one nap days, I think we have to keep pushing the first nap out and reducing the last A to BT.

Even with the short CN ending at 3, I think that too long of an. A too.

Perhaps what we do it increase your length of day and look at keeping the two nap days a little longer wdyt? Is she nearing her birthday? I remember DD went through a period of sleeping a lot more around her birthday. She'd already transitioned to one nap though. I did help someone recently and we managed to keep the 2 naps for a little longer due to the 1yo developmental leap and the need for more sleep. I have a feeling that's what we're going have to do here.

So how do you feel about set naps? It could take all the guess work out of the A times for now? We'd set them where we know she is comfortable, but also be prepared to tweak it. I think if we set them and hold it for a week or so we might be able to see a more reliable pattern? Xx

[Jmpratt]

That makes sense and sounds better than trying to force it and having terrible bt's and ONS!.  What time would the set naps be? 11 and 4?

I tried it today

WU 7
Nap 11-1230 (went easy at 11)
CN 420-450 (poor scheduling on my part)
BT tbd!  She is up and it's 745. I'm shooting for 830-845

Tx!!!

[Kellyjs]

This looks great actually, especially where the naps are. How did the BT go? Any OT NW's in the beginning of the night?

I do think we'll have to play around with where BT needs to be, but it'll definitely help having the other two naps set, so we can just work on one thing. I'm thinking it might have to be earlier than 8.30pm, I would've said closer to 8, but be interested to hear what happened.

Ahhh and you got me this time with the tbd acronym! Had to google it  I thought it meant 'total bloody disaster'!! Shows how pessimistic I am  xx

[Jmpratt]

Lol I think the more common acronym is tba to be announced....glad you figured it out.  I coulda used yours lots of times over th past year!!

So I agree, 8 might have been better.  I was just basing it off of a time but forgot about her 13 hr days.

BT was 850, she screamed for about 10 min and then fell asleep. 
NW 930 😔 Rocked and settled easier than usual (normally 1.5 hrs after BT)
NW 130 (normally 1230) nursed and right back to sleep
Ew 330 normally 2/230, screaming, bottle, took about 20-30 min to get back
WU 645 nursed, doused til 715 up for day

You thInk more NW and ew's from late nap?

Btw she's definitely teething.

So her WU's were all an hour off from what she's been doing, and she went to bed an hour or so later than she has for past few days-week.  You think she's just in a rhythm?  Or hunger signals but not actually ally hungry bc we've added more f the dings during the day.

Thx

[Jmpratt]

So today....

I told my daycare provider to try for 2 naps as opposed to 1. 

WU 645 officially
Nap 1150-1230 (40)
Nap 2-315 (1.15)
BT 745, less than 10 min of crying and then to sleep holding my finger
WU cried out at 805, then put herself back to sleep 👍

So as a was sitting next to her crib, I was giving th Bt's more thought (always right?!).

My first question is if a baby expects to fall asleep the way she did at BT, is she waking up during the light sleep and expecting me to be there holding her finger? I have been wanting to do gradual withdrawal but she hasn't put herself to sleep with the first phase consistently enough for me to move to the next phase, giving her my. Finger only for a few seconds, then just using my words, then moving away from crib, etc. 

Do you think his might have anything to do with her WU's?  I know you've been referring to OT and UT causing wake ups but just wondered if you knew where things were with how much I assist. 

She's done pretty well for 3 nights so I might try tomorrow to do less and see how she does. 

Any thoughts on any of these things!  Thanks as always

Hope your week is going well and no total or any bloody disasters 😉

[Kellyjs]

I think that first NW was more related to the long A to BT. At least we know that's too long for her after a short nap. The others could well be teething related now, especially that early morning one. It's when they're in light sleep and more likely to wake because of the pain. Some find a dream med (ibuprofen) works. I've never gotten it right. End up squirting it all over the place. You could try medicating at the 2am ish NW? And see if that helps the EW too.

I'm actually a really big believer that a bubba should go to sleep and wake up in the same environment. So, yes I think some might be a part of 'where's mummy gone'. We'd do the same thing as adults wouldn't we? I also like to tell DD where I'm going ALL the time, even in the day. I've never just got up and left the room. I think it's really important in establishing trust.

Wrt gradual withdrawal, I definitely think this will be the best route for you. Even if you're just sat next to her using your words as well as the finger for now. The BT will be difficult until we can find the right A time, I think it'll get much better when she's not OT by then and with your plan of gradually moving further away.

So today looked good, I'm really hoping the night went well? Only so well it can go with teething I suppose xx

[Jmpratt]

Never heard of a dream med!! Don't think I would be good at it either. And I'm not even sure if the Advil works! She wakes up 4 hrs after I've given it to her. 

Last night was a bit better but still 2 nw's.

BT was 745
NW 805, put herself right back wo me
NW 12, rocked her, no feed! Took 15-20 min and hard on the back but glad to settle wo bottle
NW 545 tried to rock again, settled but woke in crib so daddy gave a bottle, took around 45 min and fell asleep on him (I'm sure bc of how late it was!)

WU 715
Nap 1120-1225 (65 min)
Nap 315-4
CN in car on way home from daycare 530-545, hard to rouse! Ugh

Gonna shoot for 8-815 BT based on 4 hrs of a time, the CN, and 13 hr day

Gonna try to do a bit less at BT.  I appreciate the reminder to tell her where I'm going during the day, I do but probably not every time!

There it is, my daily check in!

Thanks

[Kellyjs]

I think we're actually getting somewhere yk? It's really starting to show a pattern isn't it? I wonder if the night is better or worse tonight after that little CN on the way home. I'd probably do BT a little earlier based on the fact the naps were shorter today but that's me! I'd probably have shot for 7.30pm xx