Please help!! 18mo EW's - we're all exhausted

[*foxy*]

Hi

DS is 18mo and waking between 5 and 5.30 every morning. Nothing seems to work to help fix this but maybe we're not doing something quite right

Wake 5-5.30
Nap 10.30-12.30 ish
BT 6-6.30

He wakes our DD too who is 5 and struggling to cope at school because she's so tired.
DS has never sttn. He wakes around 4 times. He starts in his room - we stay with him until asleep. If he wakes before we're in bed then we resettle in his room. If we're in bed he comes in with one of us. He has milk during the night - he had a whole bottle last night but this varies. Some nights he barely has anything.

Does he need an earlier BT? Or tweek his naps? I work 3 days a week so don't have control those days. He sleeps ok with the cm. Usually 1-1.5 hours 2 days a week then has a good nap with grandparents 1 day a week.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!:

[jessmum46]

Move the whole day later like DST.  It's a totally fine routine, it's just all too early so perpetuating an early to bed/early rise cycle.  With mine I'd just push a whole hour all at once and put up with a day or two of OT until they adjust - so nap  is 11.30, BT 7/7.30 and not before, you stick to those times until everything settles.  If more gradual suits you that's ok too.

How are you feeling about sleep training for the NWs?

[*foxy*]

Thank you jessmum - we'll start today!

What are your suggestions to tackle the NW's?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

How does he go to sleep for naps and bedtime? Independently? Personally I would want to cut the bottle out as by this age there is no need for it and that eliminates one prop at least. Are you wanting to stop bringing him into bed with you?

[michaeljacknnugg]

I'd move his day later, too. My DS was (is!) an early bird too, but on a day when he woke at 5 he'd still make it to a 1pm or even 2pm nap at that age. Long morning A, shorter in the afternoon worked for us.

[*foxy*]

Heidi - he's never been an independent sleeper. He struggled with reflux and CMPI (still does) so he always needed help to settle. How would you cut out the bottle? Just reduce the amount over a few nights? Yeah if he could stay in his bed I think it would be better for everyone. We've just been so exhausted and poorly that we done whatever just to get some sleep.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Oh I know how that goes! I just wondered if you were wanting to stop it or not!

For the bottle - does he have fairly good receptive language? Personally if he did I would talk about it during the day and just go cold turkey as at this age no matter if you cut down by ounces he probably won't give it up until you just stop giving it and he will be mad about it no matter when you do it! If he hasn't been an independent sleeper then I think gradual withdrawal would be the way to go.

[*foxy*]

Don't get me wrong, I love the cuddles. He snuggles up and says 'duddles' and is so cute but at the same time we need sleep! He does understand a lot so I think I could give that a go with him and see what happens. He does love a drink of milk though

[*foxy*]

Does this get worse before it gets better?! BT was 7.30pm and he's up at 4.30am. Woke his older sister who has to go to school and is already exhausted so I'm crying, she's crying and ds is crying because we're all knackered

[jessmum46]

Was that with cutting out the bottle?  Yes I'd say that would be what you'd expect.  With toddlers it's not a case of one or two nights of 'new rules' unfortunately, you need to stick it out for a good week or two.  Sorry it's a tough morning for you all, just keep the end goal in sight.  If you can get through this you can ALL have a good sleep and you really deserve that.  Think long term xxx

[*foxy*]

Hi. Thank you - I know it's for the end result. It's just really hard! Thank god I'm not at work today!

That wasn't with cutting the bottle. Just a later BT. He's been teething so hasn't eaten much during the day. I didn't think it was a good time to cut it?
I've pushed him as far as I can today with his nap. He was awake at 4.30, it's now 11 and he was falling asleep in my arms, we've been out but he's really struggling. I'm hoping he'll have a good long nap. Is that an ok nap time?

Yesterday at the CM's he had 20 mins sleep in the morning then 1 hour in the afternoon 3-4pm. He's with her again tomorrow - I've explained what we're trying to do. He's with grandparents on Thursday so they can be more accommodating.

[jessmum46]

It's ok I think to have a quick morning CN to get you through to proper nap time when you are trying to push the day on (if he's still willing/able to take two naps).  If you get another 4.30 morning for example I might have done a quick 15-20 mins around 9am to get through to a later nap at 11.30/12 and help push your day onwards.  But only as a one-off, not as a regular thing at this age.  Just for comparison our day usually looks like WU 6.30ish, nap 11.45/12 for 1.5-2.5h, BT 7. 

It's up to you about the bottle really.  If you want to push the day forward first then go for it with the bottle then by all means do.  I wouldn't wait for the 'perfect' time though - at this age there will always be teeth, colds, developmental leaps etc etc - you could wait forever and never get on with it if you see what I mean.  I'd go ahead when you are ready, even if teething.  You aren't starving him, I'm presuming he has ample opportunity to eat and drink during the day?  If he's hungry but only wanting milk because his teeth hurt, give the milk in the daytime.  The fact he has milk overnight may in fact be fuelling the not eating so well in the day - if the night time calorie opportunities go away he may well eat ok even if teething. 

Hugs, I know how tired you must be after 18 months of this.  But keep going, we are all here cheerleading and wishing you a good nights sleep xx

[*foxy*]

Thank you Katherine

He was at the CM's yesterday which was kind of a shame as he woke at 5.45 but cuddled quietly until 6.20 which was great and meant DD had a better sleep too.
He had 2 short naps at the CM's - think it was 9.30-10 and then 11.40-12.10 so not great. BT was 7 and he slept until midnight which was great but then was up every hour avd awake from 4.30. He's with grandparents today so I'm not in control. I have asked OH to tell them to try either a short nap early and then a later one or a long nap about 11.30. The problem is they have to leave their house at about 2.15 to go and collect dd from school so ds' nap can't be too late. I'm pleased about him sleeping until midnight - he's done that twice now but then he's usually awful after that.

[*foxy*]

Hi

He's still waking at 5.30   His nap is around 12-2 then BT at 7. The last 3:days we have stuck to that. The 2 days before that I was at work and he had 2 30 min naps. Friday he had almost 3 hours bc he was so tired.

Not sure what to do? Do we cut the nap a little? I just feel he needs a catch up on the days I'm at home so would feel awful waking him but if that's what needs to be done then I'll do it

[jessmum46]

I think I'd stick with it for a good week before changing anything, he may take a while to shift his body clock.  What do you do with him at 5.30am when he wakes?

[*foxy*]

Ok thank you. We him in bed at 5.30 and try to ignore him but also try to keep him quiet so that he doesn't wake dd!

[*foxy*]

Still waking at 4.30-5am no matter what the naps are like its the same. I'm thinking of going cold turkey with his milk during the night?  Don't know what else to do. We are sticking to a 7pm BT. We're exhausted

[jessmum46]

I would do the cold turkey on the milk, can't get worse can it?  But then I would also push on with GW and get him falling asleep on his own in the room x