7.5 month old NW all night long- HELP- Can't do it anymore!

[eogan0622]

Hi All,

I'm really frustrated right now- I feel like I've been posting the same thing for 3 months!  My DD is 7.5 months and is waking up CONSTANTLY throughout the night.  Some nights it is just 2 or 3 times and these have become our "GOOD" nights.  She is still feeding 2x a night, but I don't think she needs to.  When she wakes up and it's not feeding time, DH usually is the one to go in and try to calm her- we started PU/PD at 5 months but we don't even really do that anymore.  We hold her until she calms down and she usually passes out on us and then we put her back. No rocking or pacifier at night, unless we're totally desperate.  Basically it's a huge mess and often, when DH goes down to calm her, he's down there for 45 min + and I end up having to go down and feed her after all.  It is really bad and I can't figure out what to do.  Last night, DH was away so I was all alone.  I was up with her at 8, 9, 10, 12:15, and 2:15-4:30 and then up for the day at 6:50.  OMG.  Nothing I did to soothe her was working and she was wide awake from 2:15-4:30. 

I really need a new plan.  I know PU/PD changes when they are older, but the brief paragraph in the PU/PD section isn't painting a good enough picture for me- does anyone have experience doing PU/PD with older babies?

Her EASY right now is typically:

645: WU
7:30: E
8:30: Solids
9:15-10:30: S (we do set naps)
11:00 E
12:00: Solids
1:30-3:00: S
3:00: E
4:00: solids (sometimes)
6:15: bathtime/bedtime routine
6:30: E

We really need help.  I don't want to do CC or CIO but I feel like I'm out of answers!!!  Please any advice or suggestions would help.

[Kellyjs]

So sorry you're feeling down, it is tough when they wake up that often. You do know cc or CIO isn't the answer don't you? We will find another way.

I can see you do set naps and that's fine, but have you noticed there's quite a difference between your first and last A? Has she always liked a longer. A to BT?

With that many NW's I would assume discomfort. Have you ruled out teething at all? Failing that I wonder if you have a prop now and she's relying on you to fall back to sleep at night. When DD was little I made it my mission to make sure she wakes up in her room exactly how she fell asleep. So I made sure I wasn't there when she fell asleep. I'm thinking perhaps as she falls asleep on either of you, then wakes up in bed on her own it's disturbing her a little wdyt? This is a prime age for separation anxiety, have you noticed any of that during the day? Xx

Eta.. I'm just reading over your previous posts. Am I right in thinking the NW's have gotten worse since the naps are longer and since you implemented the set naps? X

[eogan0622]

Hi,

Thanks for your response.  I do know that CC and CIO are not the answer and not the path I want to take.  I'm just tired and frustrated. 

Since doing set naps- I don't know if she "likes" a longer A to BT?  But I'm not quite sure how to avoid it? I try to do bath and bedtime routine 3 hrs after she gets up, but maybe I need to scale it back?  My concern is that early BT will lead to EW?

I, too, have been assuming discomfort, since I am 99% sure her bottom 2 teeth are coming in....but it's been forever, and I feel like I still need a way to manage the NW since she'll be teething on and off for at least another year! Yikes!

I do definitely notice some separation anxiety during the day.  She no longer can tolerate when DH puts her to bed, so I always have to end up going in and putting her down.  I totally agree, I wish she was falling asleep on her own in the crib- and she really was for awhile while we were in the throes of PU/PD...but now I don't even know how to restart with her!

And in regards to your last questions about worsening as the naps are longer- I can't honestly pinpoint when things have been getting worse- It seems like within a week we'll have 1-2 "good" or "better" nights and the rest are awful. I can't really confirm if it's nap length related or what!

What is your advice for moving forward? What's the best way to re-start the PU/PD process or whatever process with a 7.5 month old?!

[Kellyjs]

Ok let's work on the separation anxiety during the day. There are a few things you can do to help that. I'll post a link for you to have a read through.

Separation Anxiety

Problem is, that last A is nearing 4hrs rather than 3 isn't it? I wonder if we look at extending that first. A and shaving the same amount if time off the end? Wdyt? So set the new nap times for 9.30 and 1.45 pm and hopefully that'll bring the last A a little shorter as BT will still be at the same time after a wu from the nap at 3.15pm. Does that work with family life?

Wrt NW's I would go back to pu/pd and prepare to stick with it for a week. It will be tough but I do think she might be relying on you to help her back to sleep. At this age we only really pd if she stands up and actually use our voice a lot more and try and soothe in her bed rather than picking up. It will involve crying I'm presuming but it will get better ok? Choose a sleepy phrase like 'it's time for sleep now darling' or similar and work on gradually leaving the room, of course returning immediately if she starts crying. Hand on her again, repeat your sleepy phrase and go to leave again. Rinse and repeat basically xx

How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

[eogan0622]

Hi,

Thanks for your suggestions! Yesterday I put her down 3 hrs after last nap of the day, which was 6:15, and it only took 1x PU/PD and she was out.  She woke up 1 hr later and DH did PU/PD a few times and she was back down within 10 mins.  She got up at 12:30 am and 3:30 am and I fed her both times, then she woke up for the day at 7.  Overall, much better.  However, I would like to push that 1st feeding out, as I think she can go at least 8 hrs between feeds. 

Do you think I should start doing this?  Do PU/PD until we hit that 2am mark?

I put her down at 9:30 today for nap, she fell asleep at 9:40 so hopefully this will push our day back a little!

[Kellyjs]

Excellent, if we can find the right A time to BT it'll make everything so much better for you all. This definitely sounds like we're heading down the right path doesn't it?

She's BF isn't she? I think we'd expect for two NF's for a while yet, but you know her best. If you feel she isn't hungry you could try the pu/pd but tbh if she's settling well after those feeds I'd probably keep them for now whilst we sort out the day time routine. Wdyt? Obviously don't feed more often than twice but that 12.30am one looks ok as it's a decent time after BT. We can look at weaning the 3am one in time. Is she still taking a decent  feed upon wu in the morning? If not, we can look at reducing the time BF for the 3am one.

How did that first nap go? You may find once she starts sleeping a bit better at night, she'll want to lengthen that first A even more too, just to keep us on our toes of course  xx

[eogan0622]

Hi Again,

Thanks! 

Well her first nap today was not great.  She woke up at 35 mins and has figured out how to go from belly to sitting to pulling up on crib.  I could not get her down, tried for 30+ mins, and then threw in the towel.  But she seemed in good spirits and went down for her 2nd nap at 1:00, asleep at 1:15 and slept for 1 hr 15 mins no wake up.  In order to last until bed time, I APOP'd a little 15 min CN at 4:45.  She went down for bed at 6:45 and it took 20 mins PU/PD (from DH) to get her to sleep.

I'll try again tomorrow for the 9:30 1st nap- hopefully I can get a longer nap out of her.

Thanks for your suggestions re: nighttime feedings.  She definitely eats a lot each feed, so maybe I need to keep things the same for now.  She's been taking a little more solids during the day so maybe things will just even out on their own.  She does still take a good feed in the AM- if she eats at 4am, I usually wait until 30-40 mins after she wakes up for the day to feed her instead of right away. 

So do you think that I should just go ahead and feed her when she wakes for the first time, even if it's as early as 1130?

[Kellyjs]

Mine never liked to be fed straight away after wu either. It's just the way some are.

Wrt the NFs I would pick those two times you're prepared to feed and use pu/pd for all other NW's. If it is 20mins or so earlier I would just feed as I'd prefer it being a little earlier myself so I could catch some sleep before the next feed. She probably won't wake at actually the same time every night but if you have it in your head you're prepared to feed after 11.30pm once, then after say 3am once then at least then you have a plan before you attend to her iykwim? I think it's always nice to have a plan 

Argh the pulling up stuff is yucky for sleep for a week or two. It totally throws things up in the air. It can also be a sign of UT because if they are tired enough they'd just sleep yk? Instead of all that nonsense  . Do practise teaching her to get back down in your A time though. It really helps. We used to play ring o ring roses (just standing holding hands) then when the bit came to 'we all fall down' I eased her down with my hands, just pulling every so slightly down so she sat on her bum. It really helped us too as we had chronic UT issues when that was going on and the fact she could get back down in the crib on her own stopped the freaked out crying!

Good luck tomorrow, keep me posted xx

[eogan0622]

Will try that plan tonight for feedings.


Seems that naps have now taken a turn for the worst as well.  I have at least one nap a day that involves me having to extend after 30 minute wake up- and it's getting harder and harder to get her back down.  From my previous posts on other threads, I was trying to extend the naps no matter what, just to get the time of the naps down- so I've been sitting with her, giving her pacifier, doing what she needs to help her fall back asleep.  Should I stop this and start PU/PD again?  Some naps she is able to go at it alone the whole time, no wake up at all.  But most she wakes..usually at 35-40 min mark.  Should I re-post on nap board?

[Kellyjs]

More than happy to help you out wrt naps here if you'd like? If you wouldn't mind posting what the last 2 days looked like in easy format I'll take a look for you. DD was the princess of short naps, drove me nuts  xx

[eogan0622]

Sure thing- thanks.  Also, last night went *great*.  Put her down early, since she got up early from nap #2.  Down at 6pm.  Up to eat at 12:50 and 3:30 and then slept until 7. 

EASY for the past 2 days:

Tuesday:
6:50: WU
7:00: E
8:30: solids
9:40-10:15: S (couldn't get back down)
10:45: E
1:00: E
1:15-2:30: S
4:16: E
4:40-5:00: CN
6:30: E
7:00: S

*NW: 7:30, 9:00, 11:35, 1:00, 3:55

Wednesday:
7:00 WU
7:20: E
8:30: Solids
9:25-11:00: S (10:00-10:20 WU, able to get back down after 20 mins)
11:10: E
12:15: Solids
1:30: E (knew she wouldn't last through a nap without another feed- she only eats 5-6 mins/feed during the day)
1:55-2:30: S- tried for 45 mins to get her back down, but no success
4:30: E
5:00: Solids (a little rice cereal)
5:30: bath/etc
5:50: E
6:05 pm: S

*NW: 12:50, 3:15

[Kellyjs]

I'm actually a little surprised by your easy.

From what it shows 3.5hrs to BT after a short nap and no OT NW's?? I think we have to concentrate on getting rid of that CN don't we? It's obviously causing you and her more issues than it's worth.

I think we're going have to play around with that first A. I'm unsure if that first nap on day one is OT or not. At 7.5mo I'd expect that first A to be about right at 3+ hrs but the fact you couldn't get her to go back down leads me to believe UT is at play. That being said, you did manage to get her back down after a shorter A, so I think we'll try and find a middle ground wdyt? Perhaps try 2hrs 35mims first A?

I would also look at extending that second A actually. 3hrs seems to give you an UT nap? Even after a short or long nap beforehand. Let's try 3hr 15mins and see if that helps? In either case it should shift the day later for you so that last  a to BT isn't so long and there will be no need for a CN? Wdyt? Want to give it a go and let me know how it goes? I wonder if she's trying to tell us she likes a shorter A first thing then progressively longer ones throughout the day, but time will tell xx

[eogan0622]

Yes, she seems to surprise me every day.  Something that may have worked the day before might not the next day.  Always keeping me guessing. 

I'd say 90% of our days we are down to 2 naps- it's only if she has a really crappy nap that I have to add one in to get her to BT, and then I try to keep in 20 mins or under.  Occasionally it's in the car or front back etc but I'd say in the last 2 weeks she's only had to have 2 CN.

Another good night last night, up at 1:00 and 4:20 to eat.

Today, we're trying your suggestions for A times.

6:55: WU
9:30-10:45: S (no wake ups)
1:50-3:10: S (no wake ups)--> she never makes it past 1hr 15 mins when she sleeps straight thru.

Thoughts?

I'm going to do BT at 6:30 tonight again.

[Kellyjs]

This looks great, well done you. How did the night go?

It could well be that's her 2 sleep cycles, but we'll keep an eye on it. In any case it's longer than an hour so definitely considered restorative and much better than where you were a few weeks ago isn't it? I'd hold these A times for the next couple of days and see if she settles into it. It may be we have to extend again but we'll reassess in the next day or two xx

[eogan0622]

Good! Things are definitely improving.  The evening after my last reply was good- PD at 6:30pm and slept until 12:30, fed, and then up at 2:45- did PU/PD, then fed at 5:30, back to sleep until 6:45.

6:45: WU
8:30: solids
8:50: E (had fed last at 5:30)
9:20-10:30: S
10:50: E
1:05: E (was not feeling solids today, topped of before nap)
1:35-2:55: S
3:30: E
5:00: solids
6:35: S

NW: 12:00 (fed), 2:30 (PU/PD for 1 or 2x), 5:30 (fed)

*at 5:30 feed she was wide awake, put back down to sleep, was up on/off until 6:20.  Slept 6:20-7:20.

She seems to keep waking at the 12:00 time and at the 2:30 time- but is able to get back down at 2:30 and go until 5ish for a feed.  However, that 5:00 feed seems to wake her up more...any thoughts around this?