10 month old bread and bottle phase:)

[Bella89]

Hi Ladies,
I feel like we have some trouble with solids at 10 months that few mamas posted about before, but I stil wanted to start my own topic.

My DS old eats solids since he was 6 months. He used to eat a lot, but now he is going through teething that also is causing runny nose:/ He eats only bread (Plain, without butter or jam)and takes a bottle for 5 days in a row:/ He ate so many different kinds of food, and ate a lot when you ask me.
Of course, I always offer whatever I cooked, but he is done with 1 teaspoon - soups, sweet potato, fruit, oatmeal with juice or fruit (he used to love it), plain fruit, meat, nothing. Then he would just not eat - he is not pushing for bread I just give it to him so he would fill up on something more than milk.

I know teething can cause trouble, and I am ok with waiting that out, but my question is?
1. Do I increase milk intake? - he takes around 30oz now that he doesn't like solids.
2. Do I offer milk at night? - he doean't eat at night since he is 8months, but when he cries at night I don't know if it's these darn teeth or hunger:/ I don't want to offer too fast.
3. How long it can last!!??

Thank you!

[creations]

Oh dear, if he's having a hard time with teething then it is quite normal to go off solid food for a while.
Have you maybe tried starting the meal with a small portion of bread and then offering other foods?  Sometimes once the appetite gets going with their 'go to' food that they can't resist they actually feel more inclined to have a go at something else.

I would not expect him to be hungry at night if he has not had a night feed for a few months. He might like a sip of water or the crying is likely to be discomfort from teething and frustration of being awake (crying because he wants to be asleep).
I did have a short phase of my DS being hungry at night around 10.5/11 months but this was after 4 nights in hospital when he was very poorly and had barely taken sips of water and milk (no solids) for 5 days, he had taken only just enough to keep himself off a drip or feeding tube.  Following this he needed night feeds for a few days, maybe even a week but this was a baby who had missed out on a lot of food and was still very poorly.

Perhaps if he has not shown interest in another few days you can begin by putting something on his bread? pate or hummus are high protein, cheese melted onto toast?  or offer him something to dip into?

[Bella89]

I tried both ways - bread first or after meal. Nothing. Also, he is not that into eating by himself with fingers (except bread of course), maybe it's because we did pures when he was 6. I always give him something to eat with fingers when I feed him, but he doesn't like the feel of i.e. banana smashed between his fingers, starts to throw things or fusses in his high chair. So that would be "no" on things on his bread:/ I tried dif things  butter, jam and he throws it away. I thing he just likes the feel of the bread on his gums.

Thanks for your advice! I think I found myself in a bit of a corner situation right now, because I fed him 2 nights in a row at 2am. I really have to back right away from that, because as we know that would get me in a sq1 right back:/ He gets up at 1 and stands in the crib, cries a little or more, talked to me, plays and at 3 he is tired. When I pick him up his eyes close and he drifts off, when I put him down he cries again:( I will try with water, but that didn't help night1. He had a full egg scrambled this morning, so I am a little hopeful about todays' appetite:)

What do you think about milk? Should I add extra meal? He is on 3 8z bottles.

[creations]

If it was me I'd rather he had more milk in the day than having milk feeds at night. Does he drain his bottles in the day?

Scrambled egg is excellent for breakfast - that's a great portion size too!
In fact, I should have thought earlier about suggesting offering foods in the morning. Often LOs take solids more willingly earlier in the day, breakfast, snack and lunch times rather than evening meal.

You can perhaps try some finger foods which feel more dry to the touch, bread stick (although it is bread again it would at least offer a different texture to keep his interest going, mine liked the hardness of a bread stick when teething), things like steamed green beans are quite 'dry' on the outside for holding and don't mush up in fingers.  Also pasta without any sauce, it may not seem too appealing to adults but babies can hold the drier pasta more easily and again it doesn't mush so much in their hands.  Little pancakes feel dry and bread like but you could add some grated apple, pear or carrot.  How about eggy bread (french toast)?
I'm not saying cook up lots and lots of different things, just a few suggestions you might try whilst he is off his food.

I wouldn't think the worst of this teething with a stuffed nose and feeling rotten like he does would last much more than a week.  Taking an egg could be a good sign of beginning to come out of it. I would really think that his appetite will return soon.

[Bella89]

Thank you for your tips of FF. This is a topic that I am slowly running out of ideas to be honest. French toast sounds good, I will try that as well.
He doesn't want to eat by himslelf:/ I encourage him to hold his bottle but he would just get mad and look at me like "hey, it's your job isn't it?". He is a stubborn little thing;]

I think he slowly eats more. Instead of 1 spoon he would have 5, so that's an improvement:)

He is not draining his bottles. There was a time he would need 9oz in the morning, but now he always eats 6/8. I add formula to oatmeal, so I guess that counts as an extra portion. D you think I can start cooking oatmeal on cows milk instead? I know I would have to be careful, but I would really like to go on cows milk after he is 1, so I wonder if I can start adding some to his food. He already eats eggs on cows milk (I add it for the moisture since his scrambled eggs are steamed cooked).

[creations]

Cows milk is totally fine to cook with from 6 months (unless there are allergies which I see there are not) so yes you can use it in his cereal and any other cooking you do, it just isn't suitable for the main milk feeds as it is not complete like formula is.

It does sound like he is taking some more solids so perhaps he is perking up again

Do you eat with him?  It is helpful to see you eat to encourage him to self feed.  I ate with my fingers some times, depending what the food was, just to show my DS it was ok.  I also gave him pre-loaded fork or spoon of food for him to bring to his mouth himself.
I think it is a bit different with the bottle. Whilst some LOs will self feed a bottle under supervision it is such a lovely cuddle time, I only very rarely encouraged mine to hold his bottle (only after swimming I think, so he could eat whilst I dress by him as he was so hungry he couldn't wait but I was dripping wet and freezing).

There are some finger food ideas here:
Finger Foods (6 months+)
My 'go to' food was batches of pancakes which I layered with baking parchment and froze so I could lift out a few in the morning ready to use later in the day.  Bean burgers/patties the same, oaty chews, mini muffins (fruit or veggie)...there were not very many things I batch cooked to freeze but those things were really useful, all quite 'dry' to hold and didn't make too much mess for eating out and about.
Frittata is another egg meal, add some grated cheese and any soft left over veggies from maybe the day before to whisked egg and oven bake. One egg in a little ramekin is a big portion for a LO.

[Bella89]

Hi,
I wanted to let you know that we're back to normal. It was 1,5 weeks of weird food issues and now we're back to normal - eating lots!
No teeth so far, so I don't really know what was the reason. But maybe it doesn't always have to be teeth coming out, just growing inside gums? I wonder...
Anyhow, I was wondering if you could look into our feeding routine and tell me all what you think. It all seems ok, but I wonder what happened with 4h easy. I know it turns into EAESY when they grow up, but I wonder if everything is ok and DS is not a snacker.

8WU
8:30 8-9oz formula
10 breakfast: good amount (oatmeal size of a fist or 1 egg or 2 toasts...)
11:30 8-9 oz formula
12:2:30 nap
3:00 dinner (fist size of whatever, sorry for the naming of a portion but I don't know how to name it, I might be 7-8oz maybe?)
5:00 supper (similar to breakfast food, sandwich)
7:00 9-10 oz formula
7:30 BT

What do you think?
Thank you!

[creations]

I wanted to let you know that we're back to normal.

Wonderful - amazing isn't it how we can worry so much and it seems to go on for so long and then it turns out to be 1.5 wks and back to normal!  I worried just the same with my DS!  Still do!

Your routine looks fine. When they have milk and solids it always looks like they are eating every couple of hours and can appear like snacking but it's just normal. Between now and 12 months you might switch that 11.30 milk for a solids snack with drink of water or milk in a cup.  It might even turn into an early lunch before the nap, with a snack after the nap.  Some people do split lunches - half before nap half after - it depends really when your LO is hungriest.
Really, looking fine.  At 12 months you'd be looking at 3 meals, 2 snacks and 1 or 2 milks...it does seem like lots of meal times but their tummies are still small so they do need the regular intake.  There's often a bit of a reduction in intake around 1yo ish which is common so don't worry too much if he seems to have less of an appetite for a while then too

[Bella89]

Thank you so much!
Just to make sure, what you're saying is I can go down to 2 bottles as I get closer to 12 months and replace it with light lunches?
I would like that, more grown up food. He seems to like it. Even more solid things like cooked meat.
But I have to say, in some cases, when I don't have time or he doesn't like what I've made, I would just give him extra bottle instead of solids to fill him up. I don't feel so bad about it, I know milk is nutritious.
What I would do without you:)!

[creations]

Just to make sure, what you're saying is I can go down to 2 bottles as I get closer to 12 months and replace it with light lunches?

Yes that's it.  A guidance for 'snacks' is say a quarter of an apple or a bread stick, a sugar free mini muffin, a finger of cheese. Some LOs will need a bigger snack, half apple or a banana, which is also fine.
With mine if the snack was very big (where mine had more like lunch instead of snack in the mid-morning) I made sure it was more than fruit, I made things like mini lentil or bean burgers which were easy to take out and about with me and still small and easy to eat with fingers but had some protein, veg and carbs in them.

At/by 12 months LO will be joining in family meals just the way you have them (although cook with low/no salt, not much sugar) plus a couple of snack plus a milk or 2.  Meat is fine, they can gum on hunks of meat with out any or many teeth and still suck out the goodness, fish too, just make sure no bones.

Guidance is to drop bottles at 12 months but he does still need milk. Some find LO won't take a good portion of milk from a cup so like to keep one of those bottles longer to ensure the milk feed is maintained.  Bottles are not a problem so long as it's just the feed and not walking around sucking on a bottle all day long, yk.  I dropped the BT bottle at 12 months (gave a cup of milk and solid snack an hour earlier) and switched the WU bottle to a WU milk with a straw at 13 months. I used the straw as mine would take a full good milk drink with it where as the cup milk was just a small amount.  Some keep the BT bottle instead. It's up to you.

[Bella89]

Bean burger?! I really have to find a recipe for that one! Sounds nutritious. I am not good at making things to eat for him. I run out of ideas and good will;]

I bought a straw cup, I think it was tomee tippee. I think I threw it away already. It was junk, even I didn't know how I'm suppose to drink from it. I am looking for a good one. Can you recommend it?
Thanks.

That's some great advice!!

[creations]

I bought a straw cup,

All the various cups I tried were useless apart form the regular sippy cup (without valve).  For a straw I used those disposable coloured straws which the bendy bit. I put the milk in a sports type bottle (it was an animal one so he liked it but the lid and spout/top was useless) and just held it upright with the straw in it, so it wasn't sealed or anything, and he sat up on my knee whilst we both held it.  He also loved choosing his own colour straw each day.  It sounds kind of wasteful to use disposable straws but the straw cup/bottles i bought I could never be really sure all the milk was cleaned out of the straw, I worried about bacteria etc. The disposable straws I rinsed in soapy water (but didn't re-use for drinking) and collected for crafts.  Took a while but eventually when he was older we made some great stuff with those straws.

Bean burgers you can just drain a can of beans (eg kidney beans in water, no salt/sugar added, they are precooked) mash, add some left over veggies, add an egg and some flour (add herbs or spices if you like) then depending how thick the mixture is either shape with your hand or pour the 'batter' into a hot pan like pancakes, or dollop into mini muffin tray to oven bake.  When cooled you can freeze them, do single layer then baking parchment then single layer, this way you can defrost them in singles rather than all at once.
I'm sure there must be exciting recipes on-line but I usually just made it up as I went along, cooked beans, cooked veg, you can't really go wrong as it's all safe.
Maybe try a falafal recipe (chick pea patties), they're nice, I added spices too but not so much as a full recipe, and I never added salt.

I think there may be a recipe or two on the finger food thread.

[Bella89]

So we're on bread and milk again:/ I do my best, but he's getting so stubborn lately! I cook various things and it all just go to waste He has 2xformula and 1 bottle of cows' milk. He is ok with that.

I try to give him cows' milk before his nap in straw cup. He learned how to drink from it, but just not drink milk from anything else than bottle He never drinks much from any cup. Few sips and off to play again. He gets so angry, screams at me like "hey, we dring water from this cup!". So I'm trying to have 2 cups. 1 for milk and one from water. But it's just for 2 days now and still not working:(

I have a question about solid food when he has these no food episodes. He was such a good eater. I never had to correct his posture or habits when he ate. Now he just squirms in the chair, turns his head and cries until I give him bread. I think it's also because he want's more finger food - this I encourage.
Do you have any advice on good eating habbits?
I don't want to feed him by fooling him to take a spoon of something. Stronger voice doesn't work and I obviously don't want to yell.
Should I just stop feeding him and try in 10 min i.e. to let him know that we only eat if we behave well? Sometimes he get's so angry in the chair that I think I could loose it in a second!

[creations]

Hugs. I can sense your frustration.

Honestly, all you can do is provide a good diet.  It's your job to provide healthy balanced food and his job to eat, you can't make him eat.

Under 12 months he shouldn't really be having cow's milk as a drink from a cup or bottle, it should really be formula until 12 months, but I can see that he is almost 12 months so perhaps that is why you give cow's milk, please note though that it is not as nutritious as formula so if he is not eating solid food he may do better with formula which is made with balanced nutrients and vitamins.

Either he is going through a phase of teething giving pain which means he is just off his food and his appetite will return, or he has less of an appetite overall (this does happen at 1yo) and you will see a more prolonged phase of less appetite but he will still be well, or you may need a tweak to your eating routine.  if you'd like to post your EASY times and what he is eating I may be able to offer some suggestions.

My main advice is to take a step back, there is absolutely no point in getting yourself wound up about this.  He is not going to starve himself, he knows he needs food to live and you can trust he will eat a sufficient amount.  This is not something for you to be angry about, it just won't get you anywhere (other than more angry).  If you shout or deny him food you risk damaging your bond, take a breath and ask yourself if it is worth that?  If he is squirming in his chair the chances are he wants to get down anyway, so why not just let him down and move on to the next activity, walk away and count to ten if you need to but when you go back leave the frustration of non-eating behind you and enjoy your time with him.

WRT good eating habits.  A good diet is provided by you.  This is your role. If you feel that there is too much  bread stop giving it. That's it.  If there is really no problem with how much bread he eats then give it without trying to get him to eat something else first.  Bread isn't unhealthy, it's not like he's eating gummy sweets all day yk?  But you decide how much is a reasonable toddler portion (I'd say half a slice) and serve it with his meal and do not give more.
Table manners are another issue.  Just as with other aspects of our LOs development and the BW ethos, we need to be respectful of our LOs as little human beings, and to expect what they can manage at each stage of their lives and development.  It sounds like your LO is squirming in his chair and refusing to eat... so I would look at lack of appetite at that time, maybe he needs to wee or poo and the chair position is not comfortable for him (mine used to sign toilet at that age and I'd get him out of the chair and he'd use the potty and then come back to eat happily and sit nicely once he had relieved himself), lifting him down saying something like "I wonder do you need to use your nappy/wee/poo? Lets try again in a few minutes" or perhaps he already needs a nappy change?
Honestly using a firm voice or shouting is not going to help, it will rapidly become a power struggle which you can't win.
If he doesn't like spooned food stop using a spoon for a while - this doesn't mean he won't be able to eat soup as an adult it just means right now he wants finger foods and to self feed.
If he wants down from his chair I'd just accept meal time is over, pack up what you made into tubs and pop them in the fridge.
if you feel bad about the waste reduce what you offer. One piece of food on his tray/plate at a time.  When he has eaten it serve a second piece.  The rest is in a clean serving dish so the food can be wrapped and kept until later or the next day.

Whilst it's ok to try again in 10 mins just in case he did need a wee or something, I would not keep trying in 10 mins and another 10 mins.  Just do it once is my suggestion.  You do not want to be feeding all day long. Meals at set times and ok if he wanted to go off for a few mins then shows he would like to come back fair enough for a few times, observe and see what his reason is, game interrupted? Nappy?  Something else? Learn from those observations and adapt the routine if possible. If not then just offer at set times, once and that's it.

more hugs xxx

[Bella89]

OMG you can't imagine how greatful I am about your clear and quick reply!!!! I could hug you for this.
I cook and cook this various meals and he ignores it for the past 3 days. I think he has like 3 slices of white bread a day. It can't be whole grain-I learned that already;)! I know it's too much. He doesn't have constipation trouble yet, but I'd rather be careful.

I plan on cooking veggie soup tomorrow (he likes it best) and baking some whole grain blueberry mini muffins ( I would assume it would be similar to bread in his mouth and hands:)

About cows milk. I think I will go with furmula through this time, but I slowly increased the amount as he is going into 1y. Also, I use organic, real milk, so I think I just feel better about it. I know he needs his vitamins, but beside these few days he ate lots of various foods so that was never a concern.

I definitely have to observe more. I know when he is hungry I can just call him and he would come and stand by the chair waiting for me to lift him up. I think I have to encourage this. I think I will offer one more time in like 30 min after potty or nappy change if needed. That being said, what would you do if you offer a meal and LO would not even take a bite? Would you offer something else or let LO skip a meal at that time? I think I have to stop offering bread if he doeant want anything because it encourages him to refuse other foods as he knows he can make me give him bread.

I know eating habbits are important now. I dont want to chase him around with a spoon or force anything. I think I got upset talking to a friend that said about her 6month old that when she turns her head or squirms she would just use a firm voice and make her sit straight. Sometimes, it just would not work. I know it my heart that it's not form my DS. He doesn't like when I raise my voice i.e. when I sign danger.

This is from today:
7 WU, getting dressed, washed up - both of us:)
8 8oz formula
9:30 scrumbled egg, he had 2 spoons of it and slice of bread
12:00 8oz of cows milk
12:20-3 nap
3:15 dinner- he had none and we went to my parents
4:30 I offered once more and he had 2 spoons of rabbit meat in cheese sause, refused pasta as I started cooking it for his fingers while I spoon the meat.
5:00 he had 3/4 of banana and a cookie, he seem to be interested in my mashroom soup that I had but I let him just feel a taste as it's mashrooms and I dont feel comfortable having it yet.
6:00 5 min nap in the car
6:30 bath
7:00 9 oz of formula
8:30 asleep ( he is usually asleep by 8, but that nap threw him off)

Thank you, thank you, thank you!