11 week old and routine, no way to fix it

[josephfc]

Hello. I recently posted in the general sleep page about our daughter. She was a good sleeper until one day she started waking wvery 30 minutes and needing to be rocked to sleep. I've had some good advice from that post but I'm really having trouble. To keep things simple and concise I'm going to bullet point my questions/the issues.

We only started to put a routine in place a few days ago so there really isn't a routine there at all.
We still don't really know how much A time she can handle.
We had one of two long naps with a 1h45 A time but haven't been able to repeat it. Naps are 40-45m long.
I think my wind wind down routine is bad. It takes 40 minutes from trying to get her to sleep to her falling asleep. Either I'm starting too early or I don't have a strong enough routine. She has fallen asleep in her cot but I sing, rock, shush for 10-15 then she lays in her cot for 15-20 seemingly wide awake.
I have a 3 year old who goes to preschool and fitting a routine around pick ups is seemingly impossible. I just can't make it fit.
Preschooler also won't behave himself when I'm trying to get her to settle.
Her last nap creates a very long last A time but not long enough to fit a cat nap in. And the last fees also clashed. She has fallen asleep afte me her bottle most nights since we tried to did a routine.

I'm head is swimming and today I've started to feel panicked and sick from it all. I've only been at t about three days. I'm just so fed up and I can't focus myself on the task. Even writing this and trying to vocalise all the problems and questions is too hard for me to think about.

We aim for 730-730 days with first nap being around 9/915 (school drop off is 9am). After that it all goes to pot.

[lauradj]

Hi there!  Please try not to be too hard on yourself, the first three months are always the most challenging.  Is it possible that the A time is too long for your LO?  Generally we suggest an A time of 1.5 max for a 12 week old.  Did you try less and get UT naps?  Regarding settling your LO, if you have a video monitor, try not to watch it too closely.  Keep in mind that Tracy said it takes most LO's at least 20 mins to really fall asleep.  They may fuss, they may move around etc. you don't have to go in just because they're not actually asleep. 
My wind down with each boy changed as they got older.  When they were still very young, I would do a book on the couch, take them into their room, put them in their sleep sack, draw the curtains, turn on the white noise and cuddle them for a minute or so. After that I would lay them in the crib and quietly leave.  Now I do the same things but I read DS2 a story once he's in his sleep sack, instead of on the couch, and I draw the curtains after.  Very small changes but it sets the mood better as he's older.  I'm pretty sure I did the same with DS1.
What are your drop off/pick up times for day care?  At such a young age babies do need a lot of sleep.  Perhaps we can work on a rough schedule that might work for you.   

[josephfc]

Thank you for responding. I wasn't very coherent last night, I wasn't very well. This all seems so simple (EASY) to follow but there are so many complexities I just can't see through it. I appreciate any help you can offer. What I needs to find something g that works for the family and that doesn't allow me to get fixated on minute and seconds throughout the day.

School pick ups are different each day. Monday and Friday there are no pick ups at all. Tuesday 9 and 12. Wednesday 9 and 315. Thursday 1215 and 315. before 9am DS is needy and there's quite a rush to get him out of the door. Fortunately school is a two minute walk so we're out of the house just 15-20 minutes. She doesnt slee in the pray easily and wakes up when transferred from the carrier.

Wake up changes daily, unfortunately there are more 550-6am wake ups than 715-730 and it's very difficult to get her back to sleep. This morning she managed a 10 minute nap and was wide awake.

I've aimed for 1h30 but she rarely settles until 1h40/45. But the. My settling. Routine doesn't seem adequate so it could be down to that.

Yesterday's routine looked like this:

Wake 730
E 810
S 920 (35m)
A 955
E 1105
S 1145 (25m in pram, woke as soon as we walked out the door)
A 1210
S 110 (15m beside herself, rocked to sleep)
S 135 (35m)
A 210
E 230
S 455 (48m)
A 445
E 610
S 635 (5m really struggle to get her to sleep)
E 710
S 725

She woke at 1am then 550 when before she had been sleeping until 3/4am and then 730. This is before we started having sleep problems, we didn't havemuchofarlutine we just went with the flow but then she started fighting sleep and only napping on me and for 25-30m.

So far today:

Wake 550
E 610
S 640 (10m)
S 835
A 855 (30m)
940 and she's only just seeming interested in eating. I've struggled to get her to take more than 4/5 oz when she was showing she was moving to 6oz. Is it possible she is moving to 4hr rather than 3h easy?

I've discovered my app (easier than writing down) can export info so hopefully you can see the attachments. 1 is Wednesday 2 is Tuesday, 3 Monday.

[josephfc]

Thank you by the way!

[josephfc]

So we have discovered that DD can in fact self settle and will fall asleep on her own if left. Thank you for the advice on short routine and leave. I'd been patting and shushing so much and didn't realise I was just keeping her awake. So now a very short wind down and leave her in her cot to go to sleep. She settles after 5-10 minutes if we time it right. If we don't she has a complete meltdown and needs to be held for naps. Her short nap/OT cycle means naps get shorter and shorter throughout the day and by bedtime she's exhausted and won't settle on her own for bedtime. We also end up with a long A time before bed (she refuses to nap at the end of the day) so she is even more exhausted by bedtime.

Unfortunately I still have idea what a good A time is for her. She isn't sleeping beyond 50 minutes, usually 40 minutes and I can't see a pattern to any of it. Her morning wake up changes daily. If she wakes at 6/630 it's very difficult to settle her back to sleep but then there are days when she will sleep later than that. I don't know how to establish a reasonable morning wake up time (6/630 is not it!)

She has started to make 3.5 hours between feeds and that's wreaking havoc with the entire routine too. I just don't know how to get everything on track! I've attached the routines below.

1 Friday, 2 Saturday, 3 today.

[lauradj]

Hi there!  Sorry for the response delay, it's been a crazy busy weekend.
Ok, as you're daughter is hovering near 12 weeks, she could probably handle  1hr 20 mins to 1hr 30mins of A time.  If you choose a time and stick with it you will likely see naps improve in length, HOWEVER I'm afraid you have entered the dreaded short nap phase.  It doesn't usually last too long but I found 3 months was the time when both boys went through a phase for about 3-4 weeks where nothing I did made a lick of difference to their nap length.  Once a day I would usually get a somewhat decent nap of 1.5hrs but the other two were 30-45 minutes.  It drove me nuts with the first boy, with the second I knew what to expect and just kept on trucking. 
You could try to do a set 12 hr day.  I do 7-7 with the boys because it works for our house.  If DS is awake but just hanging out in his crib, I leave him there while I make the bottle, then I go in at 7 or just before.  DS1 now knows that the morning routine is: Mommy showers, then gets DS2, then DS1.  It can take a month or so for it to all fall into place but if you're consistent, they'll learn what to expect.
With regards to school pick ups.  If you're very close to the school, is there another family that could bring your other child home on the mid-day pick up, or whatever day the timing is poorest for you?  Is your LO old enough to walk home with an older student who is a neighbour?
I wouldn't worry so much about the amount your LO is taking in. 4-6oz is just fine for this age and it may be that you just don't have a baby with a big appetite.  My kids are these skinny little things but they're happy and healthy. 

[josephfc]

Hello. That's OK, thank you for replying!

So would I stick to the A time the whole day, even after a short nap? Or adjust accordingly after the first nap?

It's reassuring to hear that it may just be a phase and that there could be an end. DS took 30m naps for 8 months but that was down to us APing for so long.

We are aiming for a 12hr day but her wake up times are so varied and I'm reluctant to wake her early if she isn't getting enough sleep in the day. She only seems to get 11 hours on a night at the minute no matter what we do. I'm hoping it's because her first A has been too short and extending it might get her to sleep that little bit longer.

There isn't anyone to help with school pick ups, just me. I'll just have to wait for a time when naps align and hope a bit of AP Tuesday to Thursday isn't too damaging to her independent sleep. She is getting very good at that at least.

As for feeding she is quite happy going 3.5 hours between bottles and will then take a full feed of 6oz. Fitting this around short naps is difficult though!

We'll see how things go for a few days. 30m nap so far this morning unfortunately.

Thank you.

[lauradj]

After a short nap I would adjust a little but nothing substantial.  I keep a really close eye for tired signs but at best I'd shave off 20 minutes from the A time, nothing more.  I seem to recall both boys waking earlier than I'd like for the first three months or so but as they settled into their routine, they started sleeping later.  If they ever sleep past 7am though, I know they're sick.  We are not a sleep in family (though 8am sounds lovely)   

[josephfc]

Thank you for the tips! I've noticed today that a routine is falling in tom place, albeit a short napping one. We'll just ride out for a few weeks and hope it's a developmental thing.

8am at the minute is more a practicality than a sleep in. If only DS would get with the program!

[lauradj]

You are very welcome!  Fingers crossed everything continues to improve 

[josephfc]

We hit a bit of a bump in the road, after a great Saturday.

On Friday and Saturday night she slept 830-8ish and on Satursday we had 1.5/2hr naps all day. Then on Sunday she was a bit fussy and had to be rocked for all of her naps. Her A times are all over the place, she gets grumpy and screams after 50 minutes when usually she's very settle and contents. Last night she woke at 12am and 540 and both times needed feeding before she'd settle and then she just laid for 1.5 hours before settling herself back to sleep both times.

She's 13 weeks tomorrow, is it possible she's going through a growth spurt?

[lauradj]

Definitely!  12/14 weeks is prime time for a growth spurt.  During those times, help your baby out however you can, just make sure you don't fall back on old habits.  GS's usually only last for a few days to a week, and then they're over.