Lost my way with 6 mo old EASY

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!

I feel like I haven't left the forum since my DS was 4 months old. I had amazing help in extending DS short naps and improving night sleep so I definitely look to this forum as my source of solving baby mysteries!

We went through a terrible sleep regression and things improved somewhat throughout the 5 month mark expect for chronic ENW which at this point I have accepted as a norm haha

My concern lies in the A times for my almost 6.5 month old. He went through or still is going through a major growth spurt and it feels like I can't get his A times right. I tried the set nap route for two weeks which I like but again I can't seem to get the A times right where I get restorative naps each time. I get a mixed bag; some days good naps, some days one good nap and one rubbish nap, and other days a double whammy of bad naps. I used to be able to resettle pretty well but the last few days it has taken me upwards of 20 minutes to resettle, but most of the time he fights it so hard that I just move on. The times he wakes up varies from 33-42 minutes. I honestly can't tell if it's OT or UT. In addition, NW have increased. They occur at different times but I do get long NW where he just wants to stay up and cries when I try to resettle. He averages 3-5 NW! I don't always feed; I pat him or let him fuss until he falls asleep again. But I do feed if its been 3 hrs or more since that's how long he typically goes in the daytime. He falls asleep with minimal help. Usually I sing a lullaby as he drifts off; the most I do is shh pat. It used to take him 2-5 minutes to fall asleep; but in the last two weeks it has increased where now it can take at least 15 minutes because all he wants to do is roll and practice trying to crawl. 

He dropped the CN weeks ago and is currently teething. I also started solids this week. All in all lots of transitions right now so I need help with tweaking the routine.

Here is the typical EASY:

WU 7:30/8
E
A
S 10/10:30-11:30/noon (mostly broken 36-42 minutes (sometimes wakes up at 33 minutes); sometimes he will sleep until 1:15; rarely to 1.5 these days)
E
A
S 2/2:30-3:30/4 p.m (this one is the more reliable nap where it can be 1:15-1:45; however last two days its been just over an hour; sometimes a quick resettle at around 36-42 minutes into the nap)
E
A 1 tablespoon of solids
E (top up)
S 6:30/7 pm (rarely happens due to time being pushed back from resettling and naps shortened or lengthened after resettling)

Anything that stands out? Or is this something that I just need to accept for the time being.

[creations]

Hi there
It's a bit hard to tell from your EASY just how long the A times are right now. If it's 7.30am-10.30, 3hrs then that ought to be enough to give some good naps really.  But if it's 7.30 - 10.00, 2.5hrs then this is perhaps too short for a 6.5 month old.
You said you were running on set naps, how about just shifting the set nap 15 mins later (set naps do change times just not daily, when the A time needs extending you move the set nap time)?
So something like:
WU 7.30
A 2hr 45
S 10.15 - 11.45
A 2hr 45
S 2.30 - 4.00
A 2hr 30
BT 7.30

Looking at your times though, seems your LO might have something like a 37 min sleep cycle which may be giving 2 cycles in that 1hr 15min nap, so you could be looking then at 3 cycles making a close to that 1hr 45 length nap you mentioned.  That sounds like a restorative nap, I'd aim for that if you can.

FWIW mine always woke every evening, making noise, stretching noises, grumbling, crying, all sorts of noises in the evening hours. It happened pretty much every night regardless of how great his routine was, there was just no stopping it, he is just a noisy sleeper.  Often not settling into a real proper sleep until midnight. Tiring for me but honestly you can try every kind of OT/UT routine change and not stop it if he is just a restless sleeper like mine.

You do have a lot going on right now, you know that, so I'd go for the time tweak but keep expectations low.
I'd suggest moving the solids meal to earlier in the day, an hour after the WU milk or an hour after the mid morning milk is a good time to try solids. LOs tend to be more interested in food earlier in the day but also there is less chance of wind or digestion disturbing sleep if it's earlier in the day (any adverse reactions you have all day to notice and sort out too rather than it being in the night).
hope this helps

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi creations!

Thanks so much for the quick reply...can you hear the confusion in my message? Lol

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. He is currently doing 2.5 A for the first two A times then 3 hours to BT. We have been at this for about 2.5 weeks. So I may need to tweak the A time for a longer nap. To clarify are you suggesting to aim for 1:45 nap or a 1:15 nap. I agree one sleep cycle seems to be at the 36-37 mark. Usually when he overcomes this hump and the 43 minute hump I know he's going for the full nap.
Looking at the sample routine you posted, you lengthened both A times to 2.75 then shortened last A to 2.5. Is that correct? Or is it 3.5 A before a 7:30 BT? Should I shorten/lengthen the last A to BT?

Thank you for sharing your experience. It actually helps to hear I'm not the only one and it's not something that I am necessarily doing or not doing. I can definitely try the tweak and see if that improves things. I can also  try to feed solids earlier and see if that improves the situation.

[creations]

Bit short on time right now but will try to answer:

So I may need to tweak the A time for a longer nap. To clarify are you suggesting to aim for 1:45 nap or a 1:15 nap.

I'd increase to 2hrs 45 for first A and see how it goes, also second A if it works out well.
Yes I'd aim for longer than 1.5hrs so goign by the sleep cycles it might end up 1hr 45 rather than 1.5 or 2hrs which is more common.

you lengthened both A times to 2.75 then shortened last A to 2.5. Is that correct? Or is it 3.5 A before a 7:30 BT? Should I shorten/lengthen the last A to BT?

If you know from experience that your baby needs a longer A time to bed then continue to give the longer A time to bed. Other wise it can be the same length as the others or it can be a bit shorter. Sorry that is clear as mud but some like it long, some like it short. The sample is only a guide for you to adjust based on your baby as an individual.
If you have not tried a shorter A time to bed it may be worth a try for a few days - it could actually reduce those early evening night wakes, although mine liked a short A time to bed and still made noise in the evening regardless.  If his A to bed was longer though he had terrible trouble so there is a difference between 'just' making noise and there being a problem with OT at BT.

You don't want to drastically change everything if you have found something which works for you but equally the routine looks like it needs a tweak.  Hopefully you can find your way using the information and your own experience and knowledge of your LO.

Very cute photo by the way

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you! mY DH took this photo which is one of my favorites of DS.

Thank you so much for the sound advice, I do appreciate it! I can definitely try an increase for the first A and see. I increased today and got a 33 minute nap which is a funny number bc I'm not sure if it's OT or UT. He did wake up fussy.  I resettled after almost 15 minutes. At what point do I say ok he may need another increase because 2.75 is still not enough?

Honestly I have no idea if my DS likes a shorter A to bed but I was thinking I would start with 2.5 or 2.75 to bed since 3 hrs A seemed to have caused DS being super hyper and difficult to settle as well as a ENW only 30-40 minutes after BT then an uphill battle of keeping him asleep for the early part of the night.
Like your DS he would finally sleep a longer stretch anywhere between 10:30-11:30.

Yesterday we had short naps all day due to being on the go and ended up doing a shorter A to bed which worked out better; went from 5 to 3; not ideal but definitely better. I did have an EW at around 4:30 that lasted 45 minutes. I tied shh pat but it was not working. Finally, I nursed him since we hit the 3.5 mark from the last feed. Do you think that was OT related?

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I increased today and got a 33 minute nap which is a funny number bc I'm not sure if it's OT or UT. He did wake up fussy.  I resettled after almost 15 minutes. At what point do I say ok he may need another increase because 2.75 is still not enough?

I wouldn't increase again yet. Hold for several days before changing it, he might need time to adjust.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok that definitely sounds like a plan!

Would you recommend keeping the rest of the routine as is; in particular the A before BT?

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!

I wanted to give you an update:

Today I did the first A of 2.75 again and got a full 1.5 hr nap!! NO RESETTLING!! The second one was a bit UT but that's because I didn't do a 2.75 A so I will try that again tomorrow. Also I think the tweaking is starting to help NW. Last night he woke 30 minutes after BT(which was 7 p.m.) which hopefully will get resolved soon; BUT after resettling he didn't wake up until around 11 for a feed and then 5 am for a feed...BIG improvement from the last couple of weeks.

You mentioned I should aim for 1.75 hr naps due to his sleep cycle length so does that mean I will probably have to increase A again in a couple of days? Or should I just stick to the current new A?

Thank you again!!!

[creations]

Great update
It's not vital to get a 1hr 45 min nap that was just a guess really, 1hr 30 is fine if LO seems fine.  If mood seems off then you might look for a tweak.
I wouldn't increase A time to bed at this point unless there is BT resistance.

You might need to increase A time in a couple of days anyway, this often happens, it is increased get a long nap then the nap goes short again and A needs another little increase, it's just LO adapting to the new time. Each increase remember to hold it there a few days and to observe the nap length and LOs mood.

As you've seen the first nap lengthen it's a good time to increase second A time just as you have said
Great!

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you so much for the advice! I am definitely seeing improvements in the morning nap. Although today he woke up after just over an hour. He wasn't crying but was fussy. He kept trying to self settle but maybe not tired enough? This is day 3 of trying out 2.75 A in the am. Should I stick with it for another day or increase again by 15 minutes tomorrow?

Maybe because last night wasn't so great.  I think it was a UT/OT situation. He was waking every 2 hours!  Yesterday's routine is as followed:

WU 8:30
A 2.75
S 10:45-12:15
A 2:38
S 3:26-5pm (woke at 47 minutes but I was so determined for no CN (they never fair very well) that I resettled with APOP it did take upwards of 15 minutes to do so)
A 3:10
S 8:10 pm (would NOT settle; took around 20 minutes after putting him down at 2:50A; I think I have to decrease this A overall (currently at 3 hours) since I got another NW after 30 minutes)

From there it was 5 NW! He would not stay asleep. I should note that he slept 12.5 hours the night before. Perhaps too much sleep overnight or day sleep? Or something else? What do you think?

I'm hoping tonight won't be a repeat. I'm tired! I know he's capable of sleeping longer stretches bc he did it the night before.

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WU 8:30
A 2.75
S 10:45-12:15

Is this correct?  8.30 to 10.45 is 2hr 15 A time ??

Increasing the second A time may help with the first nap so I would increase second A time first.
If first nap continues to be short then yes increase again.
I would go for an earlier BT.  It's ok to do it quite a bit earlier if the naps have not been great, I know it's hard to reach the end of the day when naps have been short.

[JennVanessa1083]

Sorry! I meant 11:15-12:45; I forgot he woke a half hour later that day; but yes 2.75 A.

I tried 2.75 A for the second but he fell asleep much faster that usual which meant a 2:40 A. He woke up after 47 minutes fussy but I resettled within 10 minutes. Does 5 minutes make s difference? Tomorrow I'll aim again for second A at 2.75? Or should I increase first A, second A, or both to 3 hrs A?

I feel like he's rapidly changing A times and I can't keep up!

I'm going to try a 2.75 A before BT and hope for the best!

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As you've only just increased the second A time I wouldn't increase it again to 3hrs just yet, hold a few days on 2hr 45.
Increasing second A time might have the effect of helping to extend nap 1 but over a few days not immediately. If you want to wait a few days to see then you can, if you feel increasing first A time is needed then go ahead tomorrow as he has already had a couple of days on the 2hr 45 on that A time.
Don't forget, this is just guidance based on the info you give, you are the one there with him, it's ok to listen to your gut too

A times can increase rapidly. Then they seem to settle again. You'll soon be back in a routine which feels more predictable.

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you! I'm hopeful we will get the routine sorted 

I do appreciate your guidance. It helps having a more seasoned perspective on things. I'm a FTM and new to BW so I'm constantly second guessing myself. I'm going to give the first A one more day of 2.75 then increase if I need to and maintain second A at 2.75 for a couple more days. The last A ill try for 2.75 and see if that helps. I think 3 hr A before bed has not worked for weeks so cutting back may help.

I was wondering on the days with one bad nap, do I have to do a CN? What about two bad naps? I never quite got his A after a CN right so I shudder when I think of offering one again.

Thank you again!!

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It helps having a more seasoned perspective on things. I'm a FTM and new to BW so I'm constantly second guessing myself.

I was exactly the same ...still am!

If you have 2 bad naps you can try for a CN but some LOs won't take one or (if it makes you shudder) you might not want to offer one because you know it wont' be well received. If you try for one and it's refused I'd say your best bet is to move directly on to the BT routine. So feed wash/bath, pjs and into bed for the night. This might be 2 hrs earlier than usual BT, it can seem a bit scary but generally it turns out ok and gives LO a chance to catch up on some of that lost day sleep.  It can be hard to fit in the BT routine after a failed CN so you just get through it fast as you can without panicking.

good luck for today