4 month old trouble with A time

[Bella89]

First of all, take a step back and think about it. How can you be an awful mother when you have so many concerns and you are trying to make it the best for her? You simply can't be You are doing a great job!!!

Sometimes when we take from many resources and read through so much we get confused. 1 source says something while the other says opposite

About her falling asleep. From what you say she is capable of falling asleep by herself but it takes time. I would just give her that time, because we all need time to learn. This is her time to get to know the proccess. Use a clue- "Mommy if I'm not crying, I'm fine:)" If she cries for help - settle her. If she just lays down - leave her be. It's your job to let her get the timing right, because she can't go to bed herself, but it seems to me that she doesn't need much help with settling. It will take less and less time for her to fall asleep now. You will see.

That's true, it's a vicious cycle. She had gaps in night sleep, so she tried to catch up by extra early nap. Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to break that cycle is to OT them a little to make it better in a long term. Believe me, I've been there. You story sounds exactly like my DS, but I noticed the fact that I have to extend that first A time when he started WU at 4 and made me extremely OT:)

Let me know when she WU tomorrow. If she had 4x30 min naps and is aleep by 7pm today she is tired. She might wake at night, but if she WU tomorrow at 6:30 try not putting her down before 8:30 and aim for 8:45 (asleep, so you can start the routine 15 min earlier). WDYT?

[Azurose]

Thank you Bella, saying that really makes me feel better. I love her and my husband more than anything in this world, I can't stand to see her so unhappy and tired. Right now I feel like crap she's been so sad and crying much more than she used to. It's hard to stick with it, I feel so helpless. Should I hold her and use the paci for 1 nap just to get her out of her ot? Or should I just keep trying?

I agree, much of the info I come across is contradictory. It's difficult knowing what to actually do.

I have noticed an exceptionally early bed makes her wake extra early before. So I do try to stretch it out over the day to make it close to a 700 bed. Later would be great too though. Will OT still be such a big issue as time goes on? Will she be able to handle it better later and be able to sleep longer than 30 mins?

I'm so scared that I'm actually making everything worse for her by not helping her rest at all... she can hardly get by 2 hours now before getting tired. But I keep her up to make it close to the next which being ot makes her Nap short of course.

(1/29/16)
Night waking: 3:00 and 6:00 resleep 6:30
WU :700

Sleep 8:52 (can she stay awake this long after a 30 min stretch like she did?)

WU 9:38 renap 10:04 wake 10:20 (started doing a thing where if she naps 30 mins leave her 30 mins to have her an hour in bed she seems to still be tired of course and naps after a but but supposedly it's supposed to help her not wake after 1 cycle.)

Sleep 11:46 (very fussy prior to this time, if she renapped for a short period would you count the wake time after that nap or the one before? )

Wu 12:26

Sleep 3:35

WU 4:00 around 530 and up she is screaming on and off

Sleep 704

Sorry for all the questions

Edit: I apologize if I seem up and down, I have ppd and it really shows through if I can't sleep. I've been rather hazy lately and I don't know why I didn't extend her first nap further... I totally forgot. Sorry Kelly if it appears I ignored you I will work on a consistent 2 hr 15 min or more first nap. And try for longer during the day. Unless stretching it later in the day is a bad idea to pursue now that she's extremely ot?

[Bella89]

Please, do not appologize. I am here for you because I want to:)You stop worry about us, you worry about you and your baby. Lots of hugs for you. You seem so tired and broken. Believe me it will get better in time, but for now... DO you think there is someone that can help you out? Mother, sister, friend or DH taking a day off to let you catch up on sleep?

Now let me answer some of your questions:

Should I hold her and use the paci for 1 nap just to get her out of her ot? Or should I just keep trying?

If you feel like she is OT and pacifier helps her. If you do not care about paci right now, if she has it or not. By all means use it! When LOs are OT they need some extra help to rest. Let's get her well rested and worry about paci later (but only if you want to do that.

Will OT still be such a big issue as time goes on? Will she be able to handle it better later and be able to sleep longer than 30 mins?

It will last until you get her on the right track. From my experience, it might take max 1 week:/ (it might be 2 days). If you ask in a long run, when LOs are older they take OT better. My 1 yo DS gives me clear signs when needs to lay down so it's easier.

I'm so scared that I'm actually making everything worse for her by not helping her rest at all...

Believe me, you are not. What she needs right now is a predictable day, routine that she will hold on to. That also means that if she has too many opportunities to nap she will just do quick naps.

(1/29/16)
Night waking: 3:00 and 6:00 resleep 6:30
WU :700

Here I have a question for you. Would you be able to start your day at 6 for 3-4 days? It doesn't mean that we want her to WU at 6, it's to let her body know, that if she wakes it's when the day starts (i.e. when my DS WU at 5, I started the day that time and he quickly got the idea). I mean, are you not too tired? Also, I feel like she didn't need that 30min, because when LO renap like that when they need it thay are asleep for 1h-1,5h.

Sleep 8:52 (can she stay awake this long after a 30 min stretch like she did?)

Yes, I am sure that she can, because later in the day she did 3h A time and by this moment she has almost 12h of night sleep:)

Sleep 11:46 (very fussy prior to this time, if she renapped for a short period would you count the wake time after that nap or the one before? )

I personaly count A time from the moment I pick DS from the crib and dress him to when he closes his eyes again. So any awake time between naps I ignore.

Let me sum up. She had 4 naps yesterday that summed up in 2h and 7 min. She has around 11,5h of ONS. Totak 13,5 of day sleep. How much time do you think she needs to be ok, 15 or 16 h? Let's make that happen:)

This is the plan if you want to try 6am:
6:00 WU (maybe she will wake later, who knows) You get up and start your day
8:20 nap1 Let's assume 40min
9-11:20 A
11:20-12:00 nap2 let's assume 40 min again
12-2:20 A
3:00 - 3:40 nap3 she has good A time here, so let's use it in her advantage:)
3:40-6 A time
6:00 you start putting her to bed, bath bottle... Maybe it's early, but it won't last. You'll see how it will shift.

Let me know what you think about it?
You can obviously move everything by 1h if WU at 7.

What do you think about it?
Let me know about how today went.

You can do this Azurose. This is just a part when you have to fight harder. Not for anybody, but for her, for you and your family.
Trust me. There is no 5yo that screems for naps. They just go to bed and say "bye bye mamma, see you tomorrow"

[Azurose]

I'm sorry, it's just I am so glad for the help I don't want it to seem otherwise. Thank you, hugs to you too. I know it'll get better, it has since the newborn stage. My sister offers to watch her for the night but she believes a baby sleeps when they want to. I'm sure if I ask her she could work sone thing out though. My husband works nights but he did try and help me nap during the day but for some reason it Is extremely difficult for me. I have a busy and sensitive mind I guess, even tonight I woke up at 4:00 just because the shower was dripping... lol

I have decided if the paci stays it's ok, I'll keep letting her self sooth for most naps but it'll put my mind at ease.
 
I'm glad it'll get easier I can, but can't wait for then.

Yes I understand fully, I've been trying to get her on schedule but the unpredictability is proving difficult.

Start the day at 6 or whenever she wakes up? Yes I'm very tired by that time, I used to nap when she did which used to be a long while but now I can't. It's getting a bit easier though as time goes on to wake so early. Not necessarily stay awake, but to wake up lol

Ok I'll keep that in mind, that 30 mins of sleep is fine even with a longer A time.

Thank you again for the EASY, it is very helpful

Yes it won't last forever, and I dont think she'll die from lack of sleep so in due time it'll work out. Thank you so much.

(1/31/16)
Wake 622 lay at 830 nap 836 wake 910 nap 1150 wake 1228 renap 1237 wake 1254 nap 324 wake 350 lay at 628 sleep 646 wake 540 wake

1/31/16
6:22 WU
8:36 nap1
9:10-11:20 A
11:50-12:54 nap2 broken in between and used aid
12-2:20 A
3:24 - 3:50 nap3
3:40-6 A time
I lay her down at 6:28 and she slept at 6:44 and she woke up this morning at 5:40. Why would she wake earlier? Maybe I should stick to it and see if she'll sleep 12 hours or is she biologically set to 11 hours? Will keep trying make her wake earlier?

[Bella89]

Yay, great job on these A times yesterday!! 2h 10 min- 3h. How did she take it?
You are doing really good And hey, 6.22 is always better than 6

Why would she wake earlier? Maybe I should stick to it and see if she'll sleep 12 hours or is she biologically set to 11 hours? Will keep trying make her wake earlier?

And here it all starts - the pain of the transition. Unfortunately, it's a very common and normal part of the transition. It was for me and my DS.
What is going on is: She is used to short A times so now she gets tired (I don't think we can call it OT yet) when we try to make them longer. Then she is OT and has an EW. What should happen this week (you should notice it by the end, friday maybe if you keep going) is that she will get use to A times, her naps will be longer (I think she will go up to 50 min, and then we can work on moving from 1 cleep cycle to another), be better rested and sleep better at night.
So, goodbye EW Let's hope it will go our way!
Also, when you will extend A times (around wed or thur you should add another 10 min, whenever you are comfortable with) and the naps will be longer, you will notice that the BT will move closer to 7 or 8 (depending on your family plan). So it will be easier as well.

Does that make sense at all? What do you think?

Yes, lack of sleep is horrible. It gets to us so badly. If you could ask someone to come in, even for the afternoon, so you could take a 1h-2h nap this could help a lot! Also, it's easier for someone else to stick to A time you know? Like, my DH, if I tell him that my DS needs 2h of play time she is up to it! (We would probably rush to the crib with the first yawn:)

I know what you mean with the light sleep. Even when my DH is settling my DS I still don't sleep angry that I would do it better and faster (which is not true ofcourse:)

Keep me posted!

[Azurose]

Thank you, I tried for 2h 20 mins but started her for sleep around 10 to 15 min earlier but she is so tired she falls asleep close to 6 minutes. She doesn't scream like she used to, she just gets really fussy and hyper but I now walk on the eliptical with her in my arms for like 15 20 mins to keep her calm and relax her. Dual purpose though

With the EW should I feed her back to sleep or start the day? Won't it shift everything earlier? If she wakes at 540 should I put her to sleep around 800 or 820 still?

I can't wait until things iron out. If they do lol so much is happening so fast I don't blame her for being wakeful! Lol she rolled from front to back the other day and she's learning to sit up.

I'll try again tomorrow for closer to 2h 20m now that I know it'll take less time to sleep. Do you mean to add a 10 min onto the 2h 20m or add it onto my 2h 10 min now?

That does make sense, I can't wait to see the linger naps lol even if it's only 50m. She's so much happier when shes better rested.

Yes my DH does watch her for me in the mornings to try and let me sleep. And yes I do the same, thinking I could do the routine better or faster! Lol

[Bella89]

I am glad to hear you see some results! Good job there!
If she wakes at 5:40 try to resettle her back to sleep for as long as you think you normaly would. But don't take extra measures like swinging or rocking. If she won't fall back to sleep or you feel like she is ready to play, start the day. But I wouldn't feed her right away. Rather dress her, wash her up and give her some time (if she is not crying out of hunger of course). Around 6:30 I would feed her (Then 6:40 2 days after that, so shift everything in time).

If she wakes 5:40, I would put her down for her nap at 8:00, but if you feel like she is ok - try 8:10. If she is tired, it's better not to push it too much. That time will shift by itself when we add another 10-15 min.

I am not sure if I get you right, but if she has 2h 10 min of play and then you go and it takes 10 min for her to close her eyes, I would add 10 min to her play time. Some LOs do better in 15 min increments. You'll see what you're dealing with.

Let's hope for the best!

[Azurose]

Ok, I will try that next time it happens.

On the EASY schedule it has only 2 hours after wake at 7, how come we are trying to extend that too? To get to 9:00 eventually? What if we make it to where 9 is a nap should I still try for 2 h 20 m even if it's over? Or always get her ready at 9 even if her A time is under 2h?

This is what we had today, I don't think she is quite ready for morning nap being 2h 20m yet she almost fell asleep when I was carrying her but got overtired right as I lay her down and she had trouble getting to sleep.

(2/2/16)
Wake 640 lay at 850 ot nap 910 wake 935 renap 1008 wake 1016 lay at 1240 nap 1243 wake 200 lay at 443 nap 458? wake 519? Lay at 634 sleep 652

Night waking 4:30
6:40 WU
Lay down at 8:50 nap 9:10 OT
9:35 WU
12:43 nap no pacifier, lay in my lap and never woke after 30m
2:00 wu
4:58 nap
5:19 wu
Lay down at 6:34 slept at 6:52
If a day went this way, almost on schedule I thibk should I lay her down a bit later since it takes 20m or so to go to sleep?

 This seems to be helping thank you!

[Bella89]

On the EASY schedule it has only 2 hours after wake at 7, how come we are trying to extend that too? To get to 9:00 eventually? What if we make it to where 9 is a nap should I still try for 2 h 20 m even if it's over? Or always get her ready at 9 even if her A time is under 2h?

Well, the schedule in a book is to give us a guideline. But even if there would be a perfect 4mo baby that would follow it to the letter, a 5mo would be too old for that:) So yes, If she would wake at 7, ultimately you want to extend her morning A time to go over that 9:00, maybe to be 9:30? It depends what your DD is ready for. If you feel like 2h20min is still to much - don't go against your feelings. But remember that not extending it might get you to EW again:/

Wow that was a great nap!! Wonderful. Let's see what happens next. I just hope that great nap was not from OT in the morning. Hmm.

Yes, if you see that she wakes up a little earlier put her down sooner. If she wakes closer to 7 start BT routine later. We don't want her to be OT from a day being too long:/

I'm glad it starts working:) How are you?

[Azurose]

I see, we're more aiming for this right?

A: 7am-10am
S: 10:00-11:30
A: 11:30-2:30
S: 2:30-4pm
A: 4pm-7pm

Yes i will work on 2h 10-15 m for a couple day then try 2h 20 m or more. I see a goal here and we are working towards it!

It couldve been an ot nap, since it was faster and earlier than usual. But I'm glad she got some rest

I am doing better, thank you. still tired but got some sleepiness knocked off.

[Bella89]

That sounds like a good plan:) Great job!

The plan you posted is likely work for an older baby, but yes. It will change in time. Looks great, doesn't it When you start solids, the process will add meals to a plan and she will more likely get to another milk feed too (read: tummy full->better sleep:)

Have a look at average A times:
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Keep me posted!

[Azurose]

Yes that is in the 3-2 nap transition area. Says between 5-8 months is when that should happen. It seems a ways off for her yet

She is definitely interested in solids now, Friday we are going to get the stuff to start her on it. I am so excited!

I hope she gets used to the awake time soon, I will definitely keep you notified on when that happens. thank you!

[Azurose]

It seemed her naps have been lengthening with her longer A time. She finally would have an hour and a half in the afternoon. Her morning nap is a little longer but not quite an hour yet, needs to extend the time even more i am guessing.

Then she got sick and began teething! My poor baby feels miserable. Should I allow her to nap sooner as she is tired from the two or should I try and stick to the schedule? What's best for such situations? Also, how long does it average to cut their first tooth?

Edit: another concern I am having is she started rolling onto her tummy to sleep and I often see her face down or positioned where it looks like she can't breathe...

it's making me wake up periodically through the night worried sick about her. Sometimes I watch and it seems she'll stay there several minutes clearly not getting oxygen until she either moves finally or I get too worried and help her lol

Does she just need to learn how to sleep properly as she had been a back sleeper? It's been a week now but I still worry.

[Bella89]

Hi there!
Glad to hear some good news!!

So it really depends what you wanna do, but when my DS is teething or sick I let him sleep whenever he wants. It's just like us wanting to stay in bed when sick. DS gets to 4h naps a day sometimes then !! And sleeps through the night. Teeth can cause sleepiness and runny nose, so I wonder if it's the illness or just teething. When DS has runny nose his tooth cuts through 1-1.5 weeks later.

There is really no timings when it comes to teeth. They can grow and stop and grow again. I feel like teeth cut through 3 days whick are the worst, but they feel pain way sooner than that. When you see a white bump on a gum means it's almost there.When you see w grey line on that white it's 3 days:) That's how I know, but it's not a rule.Last time I was putting numbing gel on my DS's upper 2 and a lower one cut through, so as you can see I'm not an expert

About rolling over. I think they all go over that 1-2 weeks when they learn how to roll over and get frustrated by it too. Not knowing how to sleep on their tummies. You have to be careful. If you see that she is not handling it well, you have to watch her. My DS was crying histerically wanting for me to roll him back again:/ But maybe she will figure it out sooner than you know! For now, you have to look after her

[Azurose]

I see, I have been letting her sleep when she feels like it now thank you. my husband and I were sick briefly so I wasn't sure if she got it too but it could just be teething as well she doesn't seem sick like we were. She has two little bumps on her upper gum and is very irritable with a runny nose and is having trouble sleeping now. I think she's in some pretty bad pain.

She is avery to roll from both ways so she flips if she wants thank goodness. She also seems to be doing much better with tummy sleep now too.