Page 230 Transitioning to 4hr all wrong?

[princesscarla1]

Ive been looking to the answer to this but can't seem to find it anywhere, so apologise if its been asked so many times.

Im transitioning my 16 week old to 4 hour routine, today I've started on 8-11 days but the timings seem all wrong. Tracey has the nap length in brackets but the just don't add up to the actual schedule she is giving.

Does anyone have the correct timings?

thanks in advance

[Bella89]

Hi,
I am pretty sure Tracy is advising not to follow a specific timeing. So it all depends on the wake up time and so on.
Could you write your day in an EASY format:
I.e.
7:00 WU and feed
7:20-9:30 A time
9:30-11 nap.....

Maybe I can help:)

[princesscarla1]

thanks bella

The truth is I've been trying to do EASY since my lg was about 12 weeks old, she's now 16 weeks tomorrow. Silly me bought the baby whisperer how to calm, connect and communicate, thinking it was the book I needed. Only about 2 weeks ago i realised i needed baby whisperer solves all your problems. Since reading solves all your problems, I've realised the other book hasn't gave me enough info to really establish a good routine and I've been basically making it up as i go along just trying to respond to my lg cues and and sticking to a 3 hr feeding schedule. I wasn't starting each day at the same time and basically putting her down when i thought. We have constantly battled 30 min/45 minute naps since starting.

Even though i haven't been sticking with a routine as such I didn't want to through my little one straight into a 4 hour routine incase she couldn't cope with it, i don't think she could. Hence why i was trying to transition her.

Despite our lack of routine, we have always had a 7pm bed time, df at 11 and now we are down to either one feed in the night and sometimes she sleeps though till 6. If she wakes at 6 i pop her paci in and she gets up anywhere between 7-8.

She was born a big baby and likes her grub, when i tried a 3.5 hour routine and even now she only feeds for about 10 minutes.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

[creations]

Hi there, welcome to BW

There is a typo in the timings in one of the books, I have not checked my book to specifically make sure it is the one you refer to but I'm pretty sure it is.  As Tracy is no longer with us typoes are not corrected with newer editions. More recent research into certain areas of feeding, sleeping and so on have also not been included in the books as they are not updated. We believe Tracy would have taken all the more recent research and guidelines into account if she had had the opportunity to update with re-prints or new editions. On the forum we try to offer the most up to date information even if it is different to what is in the books, we continue the ethos of BW even if some of the advice is not 100% 'to the book'.
This information might help you:
Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY
(I believe I corrected the times in this FAQ a while back to show a possible routine, however please take it as guidance not a set schedule to be followed word for word)
You might find this helpful
3-4hr EASY Transition – In 5 Minute Increments
This one is always useful to refer back to for guidance
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

However, as Bella has said, Tracy did not intend the timings to be specific and followed like a strict schedule, rather you take into account your own LO as an individual. Here you can have support which will be tailored to your individual needs and questions and based on your LOs sleep needs and character.
As Bella has said, if you could show your LOs current EAS times we will be able to support you through the transition to the 4hr EASY and adapt it to work from where you are now to where you need to get to without making a big jump to 4hr.

If you could also expand a little on the feeding point.  Looks like you are now feeding every 3.5hrs is that right?  And do you feel LO is not hungry enough at this time or is it she finds it difficult to get to the 3.5hrs without crying for food?  Or is it something else?  Are you breast feeding?

Bella has been great support for other mums in the BW community, I'm sure you are in safe hands with her advice   Other members might jump in too if they feel they have something to add.
I hope this helps.

[princesscarla1]

thank you creations

We have been trying out a 3.5 routine about 2 weeks ago but have been suffering lots of 45 minute naps. I put her down when she is fussy and flailing limbs, no matter what time i put her down we just can't seem to get beyond 45 minutes at each nap time sometimes she wakes up smiling but still tired, sometimes she is crying and sometimes settles. As I said we have been starting it all different times each day.

I don't think feeding is an issue, she seems to be fine feeding every 3.5, she doesnt cry or give any feeding cues that she is ready to eat and only lasts about 10 minutes, she is bf.

For 8 days we where trying to adhere as much as we could to tracy's transition plan. Feel awful as feel as though I'm messing my little one about so much and still not getting anywhere:(

[creations]

Please post your EAS times as they happen. Either myself or Bella will have a look and help you.
If you don't have your EAS times then please begin an observation period, 2 days where you do whatever you usually do (follow the clock or follow cues adapt as LO needs to adapt or whatever its is) and just write down each time, accurately, add any little notes by the side, like if you try to resettle or if she was grouchy et.  So something like:
WU 7.30
E 7.30
A 7.30 - 8.30, 1hr
S 8.30 - 9.15 woke crying would not resettle
E 11.00
A 9.15 - 11.15
S 11.15 fell asleep feeding...
...or whatever happens. A time is eyes open to eyes closed the full amount of time awake including nappy change, wind down and eating time. S is eyes shut and asleep to eyes open. Note any mid nap wake ups at what time and if you can resettle.

So 2 days of observation, you can save the 2 days times and post in one go or post each day, it's fine either way.
We can review those and will be able to suggest how to move on.

Please also let us know if she falls to sleep independently or if you help her, and how you help (shush/pat, sing song, rock whatever).

Whilst you are receiving support it is very helpful if you would continue to note down your EAS times and any brief notes, you won't have to post the times every single day but when we feel we could do with a peek at them we will ask and it will be helpful for you to have them available.  You might also begin to see patterns yourself, I know I did when I wrote down the times. I only ever recorded our EAS times when we went through bad patches, routine tweaks, nap dropping, as soon as we were through the difficulty I stopped recording again.

I don't want to overwhelm you like there is so much work to do writing times down but it is all we have to go one here, it is quite amazing how much the community is able to help one another without even meeting the babies.  I have had so much help on these forums over the years.

[princesscarla1]

thank you so much, I'm making myself some logs now and will start recording tomorrow and will post back

[creations]

There are some blank recording sheets somewhere on the site if you want me to hunt them down for you?
I always just used note pad and wrote the times as they happened.

[creations]

Here, I never used them but perhaps you will like one of them
EASY Log downloads

[princesscarla1]

thank you

im printing now.

If at 3.5 hours ish she doesnt show any feeding cues (she doesnt normally) should i hold off feeding her until she gives me cues?

[creations]

You can, yes.  It is not vital to move to 4hrly E, some can't manage it until more like 6 months old, if your LO can manage it then that's equally fine.  This is why we like to respond to each member, LOs are all different.  You don't have to make her eat at 3.5hrs but you also don't have to force her to wait until 4hrs.

[princesscarla1]

great thank you, i wasn't sure if i should push the feeding. I will wait till she starts showing feeding cues thank you you've made me feel a bit more positive

[creations]

You're welcome - we all feel a bit lost from time to time, that's why it's so great to be able to share information and support with so many others.

[princesscarla1]

Totally appreciate this isn't much info to go off. But here goes

E 7:00
A 7:00 - 8:15
S 8:15 - 9.30 (Woke 9 - resettled in cot)
E 10:25
A 9:30 - 11:15
S 11:15 - 12.50
E 1:40
A 12.50 - 2:45
S 2:45 - 4:10 (Woke 3.20 resettled in cot, grumpy upon walking at 4:10, wouldn't resettle)
E 4:45
A 4:10 - 5:30
S 5:30 - 6:00 Catnap, hard to settle seemed OT, frustrated, burying/shaking head
E 6:15
S 8:30 - OT, would not settle.

Unfortunately the A time at 12:50 - 2:45 my mum came round and I walked the dogs whilst she had lo. When i got back mum was in babys face waving her arms about, definitely think she over stimulated her as before then the day seemed to going great and baby seems really calm and content. After that we went down hill with a really fussy baby which continued through the night and she woke about 4 times which had a knock on effect today
 
Thanks in advance

[creations]

Actually doesn't look bad at all.  It can't be helped when relatives are visiting and they don't want LO to sleep, I know it's frustrating though!!

The guidance A time for 4 months is around 1hr 45 to 2hrs
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
I would suggest gently increasing A time until you get to around 1hr 45 and see how things are. To increase A time we usually suggest increasing in 15 min increments rather htan a big jump, hold at the extra 15 mins for 2 or 3 days and then increase again.  If you increase the first A time to 1hr 30 you might see that nap improve, ie transition without help or increase to 1hr 30 sleep.  I see your second A time is already at 1hr 45 and the nap is just over 1.5hr which is great.

So, I know the CN wasn't easy but from there I would have tried to get her into bed much earlier. Often we can see the last A time getting too long because of unsettled or short naps earlier in the day.  With a 6pm WU from teh nap I would have aimed for 7.30 BT (to be asleep by then).  With 2hr 30 A time before bed it's not a surprise she was OT by then.
It's ok, we all have these days.  It's not going to ruin everything for ever.
Keep going as you are with the recording and little increases when the time is right and watch for that last A time.

[princesscarla1]

Thanks creations. That's really helped. She managed 2 hours this morning first time ever! I had tried getting her down much earlier after her catnap but she was having none of it I normally have her down about 7 or 7:30. If we need to put a catnap in before bed how long would recommend I put her to bed afterwards? For example, say she wakes from her nap about 4, she won't be last till 7, so should I put her down for a catnap about 5?

[creations]

She managed 2 hours this morning

Lovely
A warning, sometimes when increasing the A time naps lengthen and then seem to shorten again after a few days. This can be a sign that she has adjusted to the new A time and needs another increase, just see how it goes but wanted you to know in advance, esp with Xmas coming up and there may be a day or two without support.

say she wakes from her nap about 4, she won't be last till 7, so should I put her down for a catnap about 5?

Do you think she would accept a CN only 1hr after her nap? If you do then fine, go for it. Otherwise perhaps a CN at 5.30-6.00 and BT at 7.30 at a guess.  If there is great resistance to the CN then the plan B would be to move directly on to the BT routine. so lets say a failed nap at 5 and you have tried for 30 mins, it's 5.30 and she's been awake since 4, so 1.5hrs. I would feed bath and get her into bed ASAP aiming for 6pm latest.  You might skip the bath on a day like that and just do a top and tail wash.

Seems like you are doing well only 4 days since you posted and already some success.  I hope it continues for you
Hope this helps.
(and make the most of the Y time if she naps well!)

[princesscarla1]

Fab. I always get confused around that time of what to do. I find that she fights her BT if she goes for her CN at 5:30-6, but it might be overtiredness from waking earlier at naps.

Thank you again. I'd be still feeling helpless without your help.

Have a wonderful christmas

[creations]

You have a lovely Christmas too - and come by with an update - we can pick up again after the big day x (I'm not often gone for long)

[princesscarla1]

Hope you had a wonderful christmas. Well we've been doing absolutely fab! however night walking are becoming more frequent.

When lg was very little I was breast feeding to sleep. Feeling exhausted we decided to introduce a dummy. I know she's been dependant on for about 9 weeks now (now 18 weeks) but it did give me a rest and did get her to sleep.

I really belief the dummy is a prop, both to fall asleep and also for waking. I really think I need to take it away so tried today, she's screamed at nap times since and won't sleep at all.

I'm worried to take the dummy off her for SIDS but feel in the long run its the best thing to do. She does where a snuza hero breathing monitor which alarms me if she stops breathing.

She been trying to such her thumb from day one. So unsure what to do

[creations]

Oh it's good to hear you're doing well

Can I suggest you begin a new thread for the dummy question?  It really isn't an area I am all that familiar with as my LO didn't want one. I know Tracy's method with using the dummy so it doesn't become a prop but once it is a prop with such a young LO I'm not much use.  With an older LO I'd suggest gradual wean or cold turkey but the SIDS guidance is not to drop the dummy before 6 months - or please check, the guidance may actually be not to drop cold turkey before 6 months.  You can't rely on a breathing monitor from what I've read...so really I am not much use on this question.  Sorry.
I'm sure if you begin a thread on props someone with some experience in this area will be able to offer support.