Need to get back on track with self soothing without a dummy (7 months old)

[freewheelnat]

So my DD will turn 7 months in a few days and she is on 2 naps a day. She dropped her 3rd nap about 5 weeks ago (basically refused it every day for 10 days, at which point we gave up trying), and since then, she hasn't recovered the ability to self soothe without her dummy.

Backstory:
- at 10 weeks, we had problems with naps (crying / rocking her to sleep), put her on the 3 hour easy schedule
- at 3 months, we managed to get her to fall asleep in her crib without crying, using pat/shh and dummy as needed
- at 4 months, we managed to get rid of her reliance on dummy and she self settled for 90% of her naps/bedtime without a dummy (we weaned her the dummy by systematically removing dummy once asleep or almost asleep)
- I went back to work at 4 1/2 months, so we got a nanny, we had a couple of bad weeks for her naps, went back to dummy
- at 5 months, she had kind of gotten back the ability to self settle, without a dummy, for about 50% of her naps/bedtime (we weaned her the dummy by systematically removing dummy once asleep or almost asleep but process wasn't finished)
- at 5 months 1/2, she started refusing her 3rd nap, and so she was overtired a lot. We stopped trying to wean her off her dummy as our main concern was overtiredness and helping her get as much sleep as possible.
- now, at almost 7 months, we often start her wind down about 2 hr 45 minutes after wake up, but no matter how good or bad the wind down is, she always needs her dummy. She will be super calm and happy during the wind down, including when we put her in her crib, but as soon as we close curtains and leave room, she starts fussing and it escalates to crying within a minute. She seems to have "forgotten" about her thumb/fingers as a way to self soothe.

As I've got 2 weeks off for the holidays, I'd like to try weaning her off her dummy again, and sort any other issues in her schedule.

What would your advice be for weaning her off her dummy? At 4 months, I did it by going back in and taking it out once she was asleep, or almost asleep. Also, this is what I did at 5 months. Is this the correct way to do it for a 7 months old? Any other advice?

Additional information:
- we moved her to her own bedroom a few days ago so we're really conscious about not breaking the trust she has in us (she has taken to her new bedroom very well so far)
- we dropped her dreamfeed, which she had been awake for for for many weeks and which we had slowly decreased and brought forward, a few days ago too --> she woke up for it first night but not second night, she doesn't seem hungrier in morning, she wakes up at her usual time
- she's currently being weaned: she's taking really well to various purees (she has had many things such as fish, beef, chicken, as well as loads of veggies and fruits), but she's not doing so well with blw (she plays with the food but doesn't attempt to eat it)
- she has been teething for 2 months now but it's not disturbing her sleep (yet)

Her schedule, on a typical day:
E: awake about 6.30, milk (240 ml) at about 6.45
(she sometimes sleeps in but unfortunately, this is rare! If she wakes up before 5am, I normally don't need to intervene, she settles herself back to sleep, but if she wakes up after 5am, I normally need to give her a dummy, and she usually falls back asleep)
A: until 8
E: 8: breakfast (solids)
A: until 9.15, start wind down, in crib about 9.25, asleep about 9.30 with dummy (so total awake time 3 hours)
S: 9.30 until 11
E: milk (180ml) at about 11.15
A: until 12.30
E: 12.30: lunch (solids)
A: until 1.45, start wind down, in crib about 1.55, asleep about 2.00 with dummy (so total awake time 3 hours)
S: 2.00 until 3.30
E: milk (180ml) at about 3.45
A: until 5
E: dinner (solids)
A: until 6
Start bedtime routine at 6, in crib by 6.20-6.30, asleep  by 6.45 (with dummy) (so total awake time 3 hours 15 minutes)

[amayzie]

bumping this for you- as someone with BTDT experience with dummies might be able to jump in

BUT- i'm thinking you might need to give her a little more support to settle without the dummy- sort of a step backwards to come forard. There are a couple of ways to do this. When i've weaned extra breastfeeds in the past i've used a 'do anything but feed' approach- so either using something like shh-pat, pick up put down or even just rocking to sleep again in order to get them at least asleep without the prop that you are trying to avoid. They get so used to their props that they are hard to break- but it can be done. What support are you currently giving other than the dummy at bed time- and do you end up giving the dummy just so she'll go to sleep?

[freewheelnat]

Thanks for reply, I got very busy with Xmas so only saw it today!

"and do you end up giving the dummy just so she'll go to sleep?" --> yes, very much so, textbook case of accidental parenting, doing what is easy short term...

I used to use pat/shhh but it stopped working 1 month ago, seems to annoy her more than calm her now,, not sure if it needs to be done differently as they grow older 

She's had good nights this week, seems like dropping the dream feed was the right thing to do, she has slept 6pm until 6am most nights this week, so the move to her own bedroom + dropping the dreamfeed has worked 

She still needs her dummy to fall asleep, but she is fine once asleep. This morning, I have started using again my previous strategy of removing the dummy once asleep as this worked well 2 months ago, I'll see how it goes.

[trimbler]

Hey there, sorry you haven't had replies with btdt experience yet, I'm afraid I can't give that either but will ask around Seems like you've got her on a lovely routine though, and it doesn't sound like the dummy is causing any problems at the moment, so I'd almost be inclined to say don't worry about it too much If she were waking frequently because she'd lost it and needed it to resettle, that would be different, you'd probably need to either teach her to replug or to wean it, but I know of many LOs older than yours for whom the dummy doesn't seem to be a problem... But then again, I suspect it's easier to wean when they're younger than when they're older, so if weaning now is important to you, I'm sure we can find someone with experience to walk through that with you If shh pat doesn't seem to work well any more, you could try adjusting it a bit (eg use words instead of shh, or use a still hand rather than patting), or try PUPD.

How's it been going the last few days?

[freewheelnat]

Thanks for your reply. Indeed, her dummy isn't a huge problem because as you said, she doesn't constantly wake up for it, but ideally, I would like her to be able to fall back asleep at 5am without her dummy. Last night, for example, I had to get up at 5.25 to give her her dummy - it used to be easy when she was in her crib on my side of the bed (just had to sit on the edge of the bed, could do this half asleep) but now that she's in her own room, I have to stand up and I'm fully awake by the time I get back to bed   

There's been some progress last few days. She still needs her dummy to fall asleep but rather than crying for it straight away, there are now a few minutes when it seems that she may self settle without it. From memory, this is what happened before and then it got to the point when she did self settle without it, so I'm carrying on with this tactic for one more week. If it doesn't work, I think I'll give up because as you said, her dummy isn't causing too many problems at night.

Re pat/shh, I have tried variations of it. Putting hand on her chest saying nothing seems the best but doesn't work as well as pat/shhh used to work. I did PUPD a few months ago, but it wasn't as effective as pat/shhh. I may need to try again but I'm not too keen on it because I have a bad back at the moment 

[trimbler]

Sorry very little time right now but I wondered if you could post your routine, in case those EWs are a sign that she needs a routine tweak? Sounds like good progress on the dummy front, I think

[freewheelnat]

I posted schedule in my original post. I'm unsure which extra details about routine you need to assess, let me know.

This week, she has shifted to a 7pm-7am routine, but it's same as original post, except everything is shifted by 1 hour.

[trimbler]

Oh dear sorry of course! So when she wakes at 5ish she just takes her dummy and falls back to sleep easily until 7am?

[freewheelnat]

So when she wakes at 5ish she just takes her dummy and falls back to sleep easily until 7am?

Yes, she's normally back asleep within 1 minute. She doesn't always wake up at 5 (last night, I didn't hear her until 6.20, gave her dummy, back asleep until 6.55) but this is common for me to hear her between 5 and 5.30 and I need to give her her dummy for her to fall back asleep (when I try not to, it just escalates into either light crying or her chatting to herself and wanting to start the day). When she used to be able to self settle without her dummy, I would often hear her around 5am too but she would fall back asleep without my help.

[trimbler]

I guess I just wondered whether she may need a tiny push in one of her A times? How long has she been on her current routine? It may of course just be that she needs to either wean from the dummy or learn to replug herself (some mums will put several dummies in the cot to increase the chance of their LO finding one), but if she's starting to wake around 5 more regularly it could be a sign to look at those A times... See how you feel, has the progress continued over the last few days? Do you feel you'd like someone with specific dummy experience to pop on for extra help - if so just let me know and I'll ask around

[freewheelnat]

Thanks, I've kind of given up on the dummy weaning for now as progress didn't continue but, amazingly enough, she's been more likely to first wake up at 6am rather than 5am, so her reliance on her dummy hasn't disturbed my nights much.

She's been on her current routine for about 5 or 6 weeks now. For the last few days, she has started crying during nappy change before nap/bedtime - do you think that could be because she's under tired and protesting? I also think she is teething more, and she has also started SA and when I do her nappy change, I first put her in her crib while I go wash my hands, and usually the crying starts then (that's a new thing - before she just laid there watching her mobile go without a peep). It's all a bit confusing sometimes, but I guess it can't hurt much to push her awake time and see how it goes! Would you suggest a 15 minutes push, or less, or more?

[trimbler]

That's great news about the later WU Yes I would make a push, it sounds like she may be ready for one  although as you say there could be SA contributing too. I'd say definitely no more than a 15min push in just one of the A times to start with - does she protest more for nap or BT? My DS was really sensitive to small changes so sometimes I'd even just push by 5mins and that might be enough to reduce the protest. Or of course it may be that she doesn't like you leaving her to wash your hands - is there any way you could bring her with you so that she can at least see you - our bathroom's tiny but I used to sit mine outside the door whilst I washed my hands with the door open so we could maintain visual contact. Tbh I don't think you're having big routine problems at the moment so if you do want to try a push, keep it small as I'd hate to break something that's working Or leave as is for the time being, and see if that early morning continues to improve with time.