Author Topic: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs  (Read 11000 times)

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Offline Atomic1010

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2016, 09:26:39 am »
I think you are right and coffee will be the way forward! ;D

Anyway I'm having some issues, for a change..

His settling for naps, bedtime and NWs is awful. He rolls around the cot crying and crying. Bedtime has always been an issue but for the NWs I could usually settle him in the cot without too much trouble now it's taking ages. Last night on one occasion it took an hour of crying befor I decided to feed him to sleep as he was getting more and more upset.  I don't think he has anymore teeth coming through. He still has the tail end of a cold but it's not bothering him in the day soi don't think this is making him uncomfortable at night,but I could be wrong.

And he has started waking between 5-6 I.e an hour earlier than normal. This started last weekend.

At the moment the day looks like this
5.20 awake
9.10 - 10.30 sleep
2.10-3.10 sleep
7.10 asleep after 30mins crying which is pretty standard.

Generally NWs are still every 2 hrs and I was wondering whether I should try W2S as he is clearly in a bad habit and the settling I'm trying to do with him in the cot isn't working?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 09:28:43 am by Atomic1010 »

Offline trimbler

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #106 on: February 27, 2016, 21:33:57 pm »
(((Hugs))) I still can't help wondering whether he's in some discomfort at night? How do you feel about the reflux? Any foods he might be reacting to?

I also wondered where you're heading with the routine? Last time you posted it I think you were capping the morning nap to get a nice long pm nap? But the morning naps have got longer again now? Is that to help him catch up from the nights? Are you getting him up as soon as he wakes in the morning (eg 5:20) or letting him have calm time before getting him up? You may find that capping the morning nap actually helps him to sleep a bit later in the morning again. Do you fix that nap time? It used to be closer to 3h A, didn't it? I think I'd personally try fixing it at whatever time suits, but don't let him use it to catch up on his night sleep - let him do that during his afternoon nap, if he will. Can you try to go back to that routine you posted last week or whenever it was, don't worry if he wakes early, try to just keep him in his cot or even having a nurse but don't switch lights on etc and get up properly until the consistent time of your choosing, can't quite remember what it was before but it seemed good then. I still feel like if only he could get a longer pm nap, he might be able to make it to BT having had enough A time but without getting OT. Things just seemed to me to be working better during those days, before the most recent teething/cold episode? If he does manage to catch up like that and get back onto a more even keel, you may need to start capping that first nap a bit more, perhaps 45mins - maybe also then bringing the pm nap a little earlier so he's not OT for it, but the idea would be that he might then be more tired for it and sleep longer... Use EBT where necessary to avoid OT, too.

Maybe I'm way off track, but that kind of night time behaviour would tend to be a combination of OT and discomfort here :-\ which is also what we're going through now actually, so I'm sorry if I'm especially rambly - as you know all too well, it's hard to think when you haven't slept enough... :-*



Offline Atomic1010

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #107 on: February 28, 2016, 20:00:58 pm »
Oh dear I'm sorry to hear you have been having some disturbed nights too - hope you are soon through it :-*

You may be right about the discomfort and I'm wondering if he may be teething again. I can't see any inflamed gums although it's hard to get a good look but he has been pulling his ear and biting a lot in the last couple of days...and when he is rolling around in bed crying at each wake up he is often putting his hands in his mouth. I've given him ibuprofen before bed tonight so see if that helps him.

Yes sometimes I give him a longer morning nap if he wakes very early. If he wakes after 6.30am I have been capping the morning nap at 30 minutes which is one sleep cycle for him. When he wakes early he is upset so I have been bringing him into bed and giving him a feed in the hope he drops off again but invariably he has his milk and then is all smiles and we sit quietly in the dark until 6am ish when I put a low light on and change his nappy.

What you put about not letting him catch up on sleep with a longer morning nap, keeping it short instead and bringing the afternoon nap forward might be worth a go. He seems to be able to do a 4hr A time quite comfortably now so that may work out.

Thanks again for all your help. I do appreciate it  :)

Offline trimbler

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #108 on: February 28, 2016, 20:28:03 pm »
Aw poor thing, yes that does sound like it could be teething - yet again :-\

Have a try at keeping that first nap short, then, and maybe go for the pm nap a touch earlier than you normally would with a 'nice' WU and 30min first nap, but I don't think you'll want to bring it too much earlier, idk, perhaps 15mins earlier or something? Since he'll have had that quiet time before 'officially' getting up, and you still want him to be tired enough to take a really good long nap. What's your usual routine with a 30min am nap?



Offline Atomic1010

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #109 on: March 01, 2016, 09:33:34 am »
Ok I am baffled. Sunday night was AMAZING with just 3 wake ups. Felt like a new woman yesterday  ;D Then last night, absolutely awful again :( We had a similar routine both days...albeit Sunday was a busier day seeing friends so maybe LO was more tired by BT.

Sunday
5.45 Awake
9-10 (woken)
2.15-3.15
7.10 Asleep
NWs at 11.30, 3, 4 and 5 awake for day.

Monday
5 am Awake
9.20-10.20 (woken)
2.35-3.10 woke crying so bf to resettle then slept 3.15-3.45 (woken)
7.15 Asleep
NWs at 8.30, 9.30, 10, 12, 2, 3-3.30, 4.40, 5.40

I tried to keep a similar pattern yesterday to that of Sunday given Sunday night was so good. I wonder though looking at it now if the first A time was too long for him and then he was OT?  I have just put him down for morning nap today with a shorter A time so see how we go.  I just cant work it out how one night was great and the next rubbish.  There is also the long running problem of him waking more frequently after 2am. Its like he has had enough sleep at that point so we have UT WUs?

In answer to your question this is an example of how a day looks with a 30 min capped am nap, which I only did once last week..seems I generally capped it after 1 hour so he was woken up about 10.30ish.

6.10 Awake
10-10.30
2.30-3.05 woke crying. bf to resettle then 3.25-3.55
7.10 Asleep
NWs 9.30, 11.40-12, 3.30 -4 then roughly every half an hour til 5.45

With him waking around 5.30 in the past couple of weeks Im not sure I want to do a 30 min capped nap as it will move the pm nap too far forward and give him a long A time before BT. I cant really bring BT forward by more than half an hour as I have DS1 to collect from nursery and sort...so think i will keep it capped at an hour and give that a go.

The odd good nights we have had over the past 2 months just seem to happen randomly as looking back through the diary I keep I cant see any clues as to whether he likes a short first A, long middle A or short A time before BT. I just dont understand how it can be so random, albeit all the teeth and illness we have had the past couple of months has thrown things about.

Im wondering if his BT needs to be later so he is more tired? He is 10.5 months old now.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 09:38:15 am by Atomic1010 »

Offline trimbler

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #110 on: March 01, 2016, 14:37:03 pm »
Oh dear it's so tough isn't it :-\ Looking at Sunday, he had a 14h day so that may have contributed to the OT. I'd actually hope that with a shorter first nap and bringing the pm nap a bit earlier, he may sleep longer for that nap, so he'd wake up from the nap around he same time but more refreshed, because it was longer, iyswim? I realise it does feel like rather a gamble, though. Just looking at that day you posted with the 30min am nap, I suspect that 4h A time afterwards was a bit long for him, hence the 35min WU crying. I'd hesitate to move BT later with WU so early, tbh?



Offline Atomic1010

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #111 on: March 01, 2016, 19:36:21 pm »
Yeh you have a good point about Bt. Tbh I've been looking back through the sleep diary I have kept for months and I have come to the conclusion that his poor Night sleep is nothing to do with daytime routine give its been going on for 6 months I tried various things in the day.
We have only had three decent nights with 3 wake ups in 60 days  :(. I've been doing this sleep training continuously for almost 2 weeks now and have seen no improvement yet, and I just don't know what else to try.
I think I might have to reluctantly give controlled crying a go which OH had suggested we do at Easter when he is off work if no improvement before then. I just don't know anymore  :(

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #112 on: March 02, 2016, 08:46:24 am »
Hugs lovely, just popping on to offer some support. You know we don't support CC and I think you know in your heart it's not a magic fix :-* please don't go that route, we can help you through this :)

It strikes me that this is now a super-long thread and I imagine that things have moved on somewhat from the original post, in age if not in sleep improvement.  You've had fab advice from Trimbler all the way along but I'm wondering if it might help to have a few different sets of eyes on your situation? 

Could you start up a new thread (let me know if you need help) and just summarise for us briefly how old LO is now, what a typical day looks like, how LO settles to sleep currently (rocking, patting, you being in the room etc etc) and what kind of sleep training you have been trying?  I haven't read your whole thread but my gut instinct - and I had a tricky sleeper in DS - is that you have some sort of combination of chronic OT and a hidden prop or two, plus possibly some sort of discomfort.  Sometimes just stepping back and seeing where you are now rather than where you were a month or two ago can bring things to light that you hadn't considered :)

I'll look out for your post x

Offline trimbler

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #113 on: March 02, 2016, 21:30:17 pm »
Thanks Katherine, that sounds like a good idea - step back and look at things afresh :)

(((Hugs))) Atomic it's been a really rough ride, hasn't it, but we'll keep walking with you through this :-*



Offline Atomic1010

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #114 on: March 03, 2016, 09:42:34 am »
Hi both. Thanks for your messages. I agree I do need to take a step back. In fact that's what I've been doing the last few days reviewing the sleep diary and my posts.

It's been 7 months now that I have had issues with LO and his NWs, which is a long time. It's started to affect my relationship with OH, my health (I now have a skin issue and am having to use steroid cream every day) and my memory (forgetting people's names, leaving my car keys in the car when parked). I'm often quite down with the situation and I've had a couple of instances where I've screamed at LO for not going to sleep, which is just awful. I also have to be in bed by 8.30pm so I can try and get enough sleep in, so I spend little time with OH when he is home from work and there is no chance of any evenings out and having a babysitter. We are just in limbo.

In short, with returning to work soon as well, the situation can't continue as its not in mine, or LOs interests. And things are not improving significantly with time.

Thankfully we seem to be back on track with naps. But I think now is the time for me to investigate other sleep training methods for the nights. Whether that be CC (which I'm not keen on) or gradual withdrawal, whatever...to see whether another method might help us.

Trimbler has been so wonderful in supporting and sticking by me, and I have really reallyappreciated it, but I think that there's no further advice she, or anyone, can offer with the nights now. I'm going to take a few days to read around other sleep training methods for the night, and in the meantime continue with what I have been doing, and see how I feel then  :)

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs
« Reply #115 on: March 03, 2016, 19:31:07 pm »
Ok Hun, just know we are here and happy to support you with gentle methods that will respect that bond of trust between you and LO :-* look after yourself x