Exhausted mum needs helps with 8month old 1-2 hr NWs

[trimbler]

Oh (((hugs))) sleep deprivation is awful Can DH take over at all in the night? I really struggle to handle sleep deprivation so when my DD's sleep has been bad for a few nights I sleep in the living room as DH copes with it better, sometimes he doesn't even wake up to it but he will wake if she really needs someone.

[Kellyjs]

Huge ((hugs)) from here too. I second DH takes over for a bit. We always think we have to do everything all the time, I'm guilty of that one. I didn't have a lie in until DD was 18mo! If you feel he can't do the night shift, perhaps he takes over the A time in the morning so you can go back to bed and get a few hours in?? xx

[Atomic1010]

Thanks both for your kind words. Rough night again last night up every hour and awake from 12.30-2.30 which I didn't understand as he was so tired. So this morning he work up with conjunctivitis in one eye which soon spread to the other so he isn't having much fun. His reflux has been awful too at night.  Think I will be in for a few rotten nights til his eyes improve. LO gets really upset if DH tries to settle him in the night so I might have to take the brunt of it for the time being and get DH to help in the morning so I can get a lie in for an hour if DS1 lets me!

In terms of sleep training when I saw a paediatrician a month ago when LO was poorly he gave me a bit of a talking to about why LO was waking so much and why I hadn't done lots of sleep training, and he was saying I should sleep train through teething but this doesn't seem right to me? But then LO will be teething on and off for months so perhaps he is right and I should carry on once LO has got over the conjunctivitis?

[Kellyjs]

Oh I love it when doctors and health visitors put their two cents in!  . No you can't actively sleep train as they are in pain and it is rather difficult to set a precedent when they're ill or otherwise. Many of these also recommend CIO or CC so tbh i take what they say with a pinch of salt.

There will always be periods of teething, so we just pick a time like before where he is only waking once or twice. You cant possibly be expected to ST when you're up with him every single hour of the night. That's just pain, plain and simple and that little bubba needs you. Once we do get through this bout of conjunctivitis, we'll revisit again. But, I'm actually a little relieved something has presented itself such as this because at least now we can see a reason! Please don't be hard on yourself, you're honestly doing so well. I think I'd have lost the plot by now 

Did the doctor mention increasing his reflux dose? I remember we wanted to reduce it last time didn't he?

Please try and get your lie in. Even if you just stay in bed and read a book (ahh maybe not that as doubt you'll finish it  ), or a trashy magazine and allow yourself some Y time. Dad's actually love ths one on one time, I didn't give DH enough opportunity when DD was little thinking I had to be there every single second. Hindsight is a beautiful thing, but hell I would've definitely had more sleep!! xx

[Atomic1010]

That's what I thought re training. Paed also said I shouldn't have him on reflux meds given his age and he made me feel pretty rubbish. But think he is wrong on both points and clearly all his children must sleep like angels given he was so patronising! Hopefully we can get back on track this week with ST...or at least soon. DH is putting me under a littlpressure to do CC or CIO because he says what I have been doing isn't working and need to try something else. I'm not sure as I think in part it might be due to my lack of consistency at nights at each WU but I am desperate for all these NWs to end or reduce, when things get back to normal. Thanks again.

[Kellyjs]

Of course I'd never advocate CC or CIO, it's not fair on the LO. Tracy believed it could break the bonds of trust between a LO and its caregiver. He's in pain atm, to ask him to also feel abandoned, will just make matters worse for you come BT or any time you try and leave him alone to sleep. If it helps ask your DH to read this link xx

Cry it out (CIO): 10 reasons why it is not for us

Research on why 'cry it out' and 'controlled crying' is NOT recommended!

[Atomic1010]

Thanks that's helpful. DH wasn't suggesting we do that whilst LO is poorly as he understands that the little guy is going to need some extra hugs and attention right now :-)

[Atomic1010]

Ok well LO's conjunctivitis and minor cold had just about gone. He is still working on two teeth but they don't seem to be bothering him too much. Therefore, I've decided to get back onto the sleep training tonight. I've decided to do with what I was going to do before in terms of feeding at 11 and 3 only tonight and helping LO settle in the cot in between those times. Then I plan to move the feed times back half an hour each night until I am just feeding once at 2am When I help him to settle I'm going to just shhh as touching him seems to encourage hand holding, his latest thing. Do you think this is ok?

I'm going to try and give it a good go as I know my own inconsistency with the training in the last few weeks hasn't helped. It has to work as the sleep issues are now causing me health issues (skin rash on back of hands and legs) and problems in my relationship with DH, who has been really understanding but is frustrated with the situation and we seem to get cross with each other and argue whenever the sleep issue comes up - which is every day.  If we don't see any improvement this week I think we are going to do CC as we need things to change  Our HV, who is lovely and v supportive, has also been saying that she thinks CC may be the only solution so we will see.

I could really do with some words of support as I need to stick to this! 

[trimbler]

Oh (((hugs))) I know this has been such a rough journey for you Glad to hear the cold and conjunctivitis are gone now We're still here and I really hope that your DH is on board to give you the support that you need right now - will he take on some of the settling, at the weekend for example?

Your plan sounds good to me, if you can really stick to it - I understand that you haven't always had the opportunity to do so with ill health etc, but you really won't know if it can work until you do expect some bumps but if you can stay consistent then it will pay off in the end. One thing to ponder - I remember seeing Kelly suggesting this recently - if he likes to hold your hand to go to sleep, can you do it so that your hand it on top, so that you can gradually reduce the pressure over time?

Do keep us posted with routines etc whilst you're doing this, we are here to support you in doing the best you can for your LO, which we don't believe is CC, although I do hear you that you're at the end of your tether

[Kellyjs]

Here with you too hun, keep us posted and as Trimbler said, keep a log of the days and nights and what you do and let's crack this!  xx

[Atomic1010]

Thanks so much both 

Last two nights have been rough but I have just about stuck to my plan and fed only at 10.30 and 2.30, but I have also fed at 4. Rest of the time, and there have been a lot of NWS (every hour almost for first half of night), I have helped him settle in cot and tried to avoid hand holding however every time I put hand in to do pat bit of shh pat he grabs it and it's hard to wrestle it free, but I do try.

He has clearly been uncomfortable at night and daytime naps are awful with him waking every 30 mins so something is bothering him. He still has a little conjunctivitis which returned yesterday and a slight cough, and teeth on the way so can only assume it's one of those.  Hence I've snuck in an unplanned extra feed. Going to try moving 10.30 one back 30 mins tonight as I've noticed that he doesn't seem to be feeding much then and this will mean later feed goes back. I'm taking it slower than planned as LO has been so unsettled.

So no progress in terms of reducing NWs, but least I'm not picking him up at every waking now...

Here is Monday's routine as last two days involved naps in car as out and about. I'm not recording feeds as doing 3 meals a day and 3-4 bfs a day.

6.15 Awake
9.15 - 11 S Bf to sleep as wouldn't settle. This is unusual for morning nap as normally he settles fine.
2-3.45 S bf to sleep as wouldn't settle then woke crying after 60 mins and rocked back. This happens at nearly all afternoon naps now for last 3 wks.
7.10 asleep.  Took up at 6.30 but difficulty settling

Night wakings at 10.10, awake 1.10-3 struggling to settle but drifted off a number of times only to wake after 5 minutes, awake 5-5.30 off and on, 6.30, then late waking up at 8.

[trimbler]

Oh (((hugs))) it will be especially tough during the first few days, especially if he is in discomfort - I know you're keen to make this work but if he's still really in pain then you're right to go slowly - just checking you are giving pain meds? Do you need to up them at all, do you think? Within the recommended dose of course! Use both paracetamol and ibuprofen?

[Atomic1010]

Hi i gave him ibuprofen before bed on Tuesday and Wednesday nights and calpol in the middle of the night but they made no difference to the number of NWs so I decided not to give him any last night.

He woke first at 9am and settled himself fairly quickly which was great. He then woke at 11.30 so I fed as planned. Next wake up was the killer 1.44-3.15!!! He dropped off a few times only to wake again a few minutes later. Towards the end of the waking he started to get quite upset and couldn't settle so I fed him as it was planned and I think he was so OT dropping off himself would have taken longer. He then woke at 5.30 and up for the day at 7.

He can't seem to sleep longer than 2 hrs at night. I'm not sure whether it's a bad habit now or whether there's something wrong with him   I know I've only done 3 nights of this but I don't feel I'm getting anywhere.

[Kellyjs]

((hugs)) for the long NW, We've just had one of those and it is yucky.

How old is he now? I'm wondering if that first nap might be a little early? He's sleeping well for his naps (when he does go down), that perhaps it's time for a bump in A times so he can self-settle and we don't go backwards in feeding to sleep every time?

the day length is good at 13hrs, but it may be that we have to consider two long naps isn't quite the way to go anymore?? xx

[*Ali*]

Hi hun, I just popped on and read the last 4 pages and my first thought is that your baby is waking from discomfort at night. I've never known a baby wake so frequently who has not been suffering from reflux or intolerance or some other form of discomfort. I cannot understand why your paed is suggesting he is too old for reflux meds!!! Does he understand reflux at all? Has your LO ever been tested for reflux with a test such as the barium swallow? There are children and adults on reflux meds so despite many babies growing out of it as they get older it is not always the case. And seeing as your LO is having symptoms and seems to have been having them for many months I would actually be asking your doctor to trial a better medication rather than weaning him off the one he is on because he thinks he should have grown out of it by now.

Did you read the link on Separation Anxiety pp posted earlier in the thread? I ask not because I am suggesting that this all stems from SA but because it has a description of how to do WIWO with a baby 8-12mo. I believe this would be an excellent method for you to try instead of CC. I've used similar with my second two children at a similar age and I believe it works quickly in babies who are not sleeping independently because they are looking for mum. CC stresses babies out. It causes the release of high levels of cortisol (the stress hormone) which is toxic and affects brain development. Studies done on monkeys, but which could reasonably be applied to human babies, showed this hormone was not released in babies who would see or hear their mother when left (in a cage). This is the big difference between leaving baby to cry alone and being present even if baby is upset. Also, getting very upset, as would be the case for a baby left to cry alone, is painful for a reflux sufferer as it aggravates the condition.

I really believe your baby is trying to tell you something when he wakes and cries in the night. It may be that he feels the reflux discomfort and seeks milk to sooth the burning or that snuggling into your breast distracts him enough to settle back to sleep. I'd try to think of it was helping him get through these uncomfortable times. It won't last forever although I know it seems like it at the time.

Another option to consider if he is still in your room is to just lie in your bed and gently tell him to go back to sleep or shush him. I would actually move him out of your room if you do think you are disturbing him. My DD is still in our room (because we don't have another room to move her to until we move in the summer) and I know we distrub her. I am actually scared to move at night and sometimes curse my DH as it disturbs her every time we roll over and the bed creaks or one of us comes to bed or gets up for the loo, the older boys or in the morning. So if you have that option I would definitely try it.

Failing that if you just want some sleep you could consider just pulling him into bed with you so you can see to him without needing to really wake or get up but that is probably just putting off the sleep training for the future.

Big hugs. I hope you find something that works for you and your baby.