13 week / 3 month old predominantly cat naps

[AbbG]

Hi.

DS2 has just gone 3 months.

Our daytime routine is all over the place due to varying wake up times (from 6 to 7 but closer to 6)

He generally has 1.5 hours awake time and is fed roughly 2.5 hourly (breast fed)

He self settles really well and has no sleep props.

He mostly naps for 40 minutes, with a few 50 minutes and the occasional 1 hour  and then from time to time longer than these, but this isn't often and is generally only for 1 nap per day. Where it does happen it's often on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th nap of the day (yesterday it was actually the first - but that was after a night where he was up every 2 hours the night before so likely he was exhausted).

Generally night wakings have been just once a night between 3 and 4 (last feed around 6, bedtime around 6.30/7 depending on what time last nap fell), last night it was 12.30 and 4.30 (roughly), the night before it was 10.30, 12.30, 3, 5. I fed at 10.30 and 3, rocked back to sleep the other 2.

I really do think he needs more than 40 minutes at s time as he often looks tired well before bedtime and is wrecked for nighttime bedtime.

Today I tried to re-settle him after nap 2, with patting - no luck, he got too upset if I left him and tried rocking him till he was pretty much asleep and putting him down, he just woke and wouldn't go back to sleep. So I instead decided to hold him to help him get a little more sleep (he's asleep in my arms right now - took some work though, he was quite unsettled). Generally I don't try to resettle as he'd the same as DS1, as soon as he's awake he's wide awake and there's no hope of getting him back to sleep without some work (and even then I'd say the only way woul be via rocking back to sleep which isn't ideal) and weds to sun DS2 makes this impossible.

Any ideas or recommendations for the short naps?

Can A time change through the day? Ie start longer off the back off night time sleep and then shorten (off the back of cat naps!!) ?

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Can A time change through the day? Ie start longer off the back off night time sleep and then shorten (off the back of cat naps!!) ?

It can.  Mine liked a very long first A time (longer than guidance times) and shorter thereafter with the shortest A before BT.  Having said that we struggled with 40 min naps from 3.5 to 5.5 months so I can't tell you exactly what his ideal A time would have been as I had not yet worked out he was UT and needed longer.

I would increase the first A time and see if you can get a more consistent nap length there.  How about using W2S to help him through the transition from one sleep cycle to another? This is helpful for LOs who are hard to get back to sleep once they are awake as you begin the resettling before they fully wake up. Here's some info
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

From what you've said it sounds like all the A times could be increased to help the entire day of naps, it would be fine if you wanted to try an increase right through and the W2S on each nap but I usually advise doing the W2S on one nap (the same nap each day, so the first is a good place to start) as it can be quite tiring for you to work on all of them at once.  Babies make habits so once there is a habit of a more consistent and longer first nap you can then move on to nap 2.

What do you think?

[AbbG]

Hi,

Thanks for the resonse.

I started by extending first nap awake time, ended up being around 2 hours.
For 2 days this worked well and we had a nap of 1.5 hours and then 2 hours yesterday. However unfortunately today was back to 40minutes post a 2 hour awake time.

I do wonder if the two longer naps may have been due to my hubby and DS1 doing their own version of wake to sleep with banging, crashing and yelling! Whatever works I guess.

We're about to head off on summer holidays for a couple of weeks and will see how we go during and when we return.

I'm hoping they'll lengthen by themselves like they did with DS1 between 4-5 months.

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Enjoy your holidays.
We'll be here when you get back

[AbbG]

Hi. A couple of quick questions...

The little guy (now a bit below 3.5 months old) had a long second sleep yesterday - 2 hours.

Today we're up to nap 3 and so far each as been dead on 40 minutes.

It seems that he only does longer naps when he wakes before 7am (yesterday he woke at 6.15am)... Is it possible that he just doesn't need any more than 40 minutes at a time until he gets a bit more tired? He always wakes from his naps really happy. Although, twice today he was all but sleeping while feeding...

Secondly, we've cemented the 2 hours awake time in the morning, 6 days today. For the most part we're at 1.5 hours for the others ... We tend to look for tired cues from around this time... This arvo he didn't seem tired so I kept him up till 2 hours, he went down without any fuss at all... Although
he just woke at 20 minutes a little upset, but resettled somewhat easily. Think I answered my own question... Too long awake time! He slept for another 40 mins post resettling.

Any thoughts re the above? I'm really keen to get these naps sorted but I'm kinda scared of wake to sleep as it didn't work at all well with DS1.

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Hi there
If he's started to wake earlier than 7am and if his first nap after 2hr A time have started to go short (looking at your post from 26th) then I would increase first A to 2hr 10/15.

For the other

This arvo he didn't seem tired so I kept him up till 2 hours, he went down without any fuss at all... Although
he just woke at 20 minutes a little upset, but resettled somewhat easily.

Yes there is indication of a little OT here however this can happen when an A time is increased and is quite normal for a few days until LO settles into the new time. It doesn't necessarily mean it is too long, only that he needs to get used to it. After a few days this may result in a better nap (longer overall and without the 20 min OT wake)...and then like you saw with the first nap a few days after that you might see it go shorter due to UT again.  This is why we tend increase in these small increments of 15 mins and wait a few days to judge how things are going.

The A times are a bit longer than guidance but that's how some LOs are, and that's why we follow the individual needs rather than a one-size-fits-all routine.

I'm really keen to get these naps sorted but I'm kinda scared of wake to sleep as it didn't work at all well with DS1.

The method I suggest is one where you begin the resettle before he is fully awake, see option 1 in the naps section on the link. You do not need to disturb his sleep, you can hover at the right time and wait for the signs of waking and begin your resettling.  it is only 3 days then hold off day 4. It's just another teaching tool.

[AbbG]

Hi, thanks again.

He's been an early riser on and off since he got home from hospital. I think that it's largely related to the timing of his overnight feeds, the later the second (or one more often) feed, the later he'll wake in the morning - up to around 7.30.

He's generally up just once overnight however has woken twice in the past 3 nights, first 2 perhaps due to holidays and last one was likely due to the New Year's Eve party next door.

I'll look at bumping all awake times a little, should lead to us being at 2 hours for all naps just before 4 months. do you reckon I still need to bump the first awake time a little?

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Yes I would increase the first A looking at how things have gone. Sometimes A times need to be different through the day.

[AbbG]

Yesterday a bump in awake time led to 1 sleep waking overtired, but this did allow me to go in and resettle, and he had around 40 mins + nearly 1 hour.

Similar today, but I managed a resettle after 40 minutes for second sleep (first sleep was in the ergo)
3rd sleep I managed to resettle, however DS1 managed to wake him up! Twice! So, I ended up giving up as he was a little too wired after being woken twice after just going back to sleep.

In terms of resettling... Both times I had to resettle twice, within a couple of minutes, is this normal?
Also, how long does it tend to take for them to learn to do themselves?

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Both times I had to resettle twice, within a couple of minutes, is this normal?

with resettling it can take up to 20 mins of shush/pat (or adapted) for LO to reach deep sleep. Really this means continuing for 20 mins but this is not necessarily possible with another hcild to care for, but yes it is normal to wake again a few mins later.

Also, how long does it tend to take for them to learn to do themselves?

It depends on teh Lo I suppose and also how much time you are able to put into it, by helping him learn that he is safe and that it is ok to sleep alone. He learns this with your help which increases his confidence and learns a bit more each time he sleeps.  When you use the sling for a nap he is sleeping but not learning independent sleep, that's not to say this is a bad choice (many mummy's here choose to do that so they can care for an older child or so they can get out and about).
Mine was going to sleep independently at around 8 wks but he is my only child and I had all that time dedicated to him and helping him learn, spending a lot of time soothing him in his cot etc.
Even when they are independent sleepers like my DS there are still many times when they need lots of help, illness, teething, growth spurts, developmental leaps...there is so much to disturb sleep, but once they can self settle they usually return to independence just as soon as they possibly can.

Do you feel like the routine is settling down? Do you feel the W2S and resettling is helping (when you manage it)?
If you have consistently used W2S on a nap for 3 days you should hold off on day 4 to see if he can transition alone. Resettle if needed though.

[AbbG]

Thanks again!

I haven't tried W2S just yet, I've decided to leave that till we're at home.

The settling worked well for a couple of days, however not today after an overtired 30 minute nap - based on a 1.45 awake time.. Think we need to increase more slowly.

I'm using the ergo more due to being on holidays and it allowing us to still get out and about without LO missing his sleep. I also have been using most afternoons for the final nap as he has always refused to take this nap in his cot if after 4pm ... Weird one but rather than worry about the stress I just go with what I know works.

You mentioned that your little one slept independently since 8 weeks, DS2 has been doing so since 6 weeks, it's just the linking of cycles that he can't quite do.

Finally, any suggestion re the best timing for resettling... Should I give him a certain amount of time in bed to do it by himself or should I go right in, or wait for a full blown cry?

I've generally gone in after a full blown cry in the past 2 days, but just now he woke up quite happy after 30 mins and didn't make hardly any noise - I went in after a minute or so (video monitor) but no hope of resettling.

Thanks again!

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Finally, any suggestion re the best timing for resettling... Should I give him a certain amount of time in bed to do it by himself or should I go right in, or wait for a full blown cry?

There is benefit in resettling before he fully wakes which is why I'm suggesting W2S.  with W2S you begin shush/pat before he stirs but it is also helpful if you go in before he is likely to wake and sit right by him, with a hand ready to begin helping the moment he stirs before he has a chance to fully wake and cry out.  The point of this is it teaches him to take a longer nap and also teaches the skills to resettle himself at the sleep cycle transition.  Generally you'd do it for 3 days then hold off for day 4 and just observe.  The WU you describe at 30 mins today for instance could be UT so he had no chance of resettling or he might have lay there for 30 mins quietly and eventually gone back off to sleep.  This is why there are observation days in the W2S process, some LOs will lie awake for a long long time but eventually put themselves to sleep and this is where you don't want to jump in too early...whilst you want him to spend the whole nap time asleep it is part of his learning to be able to wake up at the end of a cycle and eventually go back to sleep after a period of time.
Really then the answer is both, but it depends where you are on the sleep training.

[AbbG]

Makes sense, thanks.

We did get a 2 hour 45 minute nap this arvo, so only had 3 naps today, just had them kinda out of order!

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That's a long nap!

Hope you had a good day.