6 month baby .. Night waknings and short naps !

[Jojo290615]

Hi everyone

I'm new to this forum and I really need some help!

Ever since my baby was a newborn I have followed the EASY routine ... And it went really well! We had a 3 hour routine.
Since around 3/4 months my little boy has been having really short naps .. 30 minutes and if we are very lucky 40mins. This started when I started putting him down in his cot in the bedroom for his naps.
So I found it very hard to follow the EASY routine .. As his wake time was only around 1,5 hours !
At night he slept through most of the time, waking up around 5:30... Which is early but i was fine with it as he slept from around 6:30pm until 5:30 with a dream feed at 10:00.
Then the 4 month sleep regression hit us, development leaps and a bad cold and so he started waking up in the night around 3:00 and then around 4:30 .. To start his day off. ! 😴😴😴
This has been on and off since then up to now ! Sometimes if we are lucky he will sleep until 5:00 ... But since last week he has hit the stormy period of leap 5 .. He is desperately trying to crawl ! So right now he wakes up at 3:00 , we feed him .. Sometimes it takes us about 45 minutes to get him back to sleep ! Then he wakes at 4:45 for the day ! Most of the times he needs to poo!
To top it off he still only sleeps for 30 mins ! And could easily eat every 4 hours ..since last week his appetite has gone down .. And is no longer interested in weaning .. So I'm leaving it until after Christmas.
this is what our routine looks like
5:00: wakes  up
500 -6:30 /7:00 play time
7:00: nap for 30mins sometimes 45 mins
7:45 breakfast - (porridge followed by milk)
8:00 get ready and play time
10:00 nap  for 30 mins
1030-12:00 play time
12:00 ( a few spoons of solids .. Milk)
12:30/13:00 nap for 30 mins
13:30 play time
15:00/15:30 milk
15:30 /16:00 nap time 30 mins
16:30 -17:30 play
17:30 wind down and BT routine
18:30 asleep
22:00 dream feed ...

So as you can see 4 naps but not much sleep ! and very  hard to follow the EASY routine I'm sure he could easily go 4 hours between bottles ! So a four hour routine .. But that means a wake time of 3,5 hours !
When he is not in a leap he can self settle at bedtime most of the time but sometimes needs extra cuddles .. And even in the night I hear him awake sometimes and then manages to get himself to sleep again.
For his naps it another story .. He doesn't self sloth for his naps ... So normally I let him wind down in his bouncer and I bounce him to sleep and then put him in his cot. Not ideal I know .. But at the moment it's the only thing that gets him to sleep with out fuss ... As he really fights the naps and then he gets overtired...
When he wakes from his naps he doesn't cry .. And seems happy and content. I have tried leaving him in his cot when he wakes .. But the he gets irritable and sleepy but it's impossible to get him to sleep ! So I find it easier to get him up and let him play ..
He has lots of play time on his mat and in his jumperoo or with me:)

Could someone help me get back on track with a routine ? And stop these night waknings and early morning waknings ?
Also when he becomes more interested in solids .. Where would that fit in to a routine ? Before his milk ?
Thanks in advance

[creations]

Hello and welcome to BW forums
Sounds like you just need some help to get back on track.

At 6 months the guidance A time is around 3hrs and the chances are once you move up to this things are going to start to get a bit easier.  Your LO is likely UT (under tired) which I personally find even more difficult than OT (over tired).
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
Your LO is likely to look and act tired much earlier than this because he is in the habit of getting a nap on a much shorter A time, I'd advice to stretch the A time as much as you can. We usually suggest to go in 15 min increments over several days rather than all in one go but tbh the A looks so short at 2hrs that I would not go too slowly on increasing the A otherwise you could be getting closer to 7 months and still playing catch up on A times.  I would likely go directly to 2hr 30 min, hold for a 2 days then increase to 2hr 45, hold another 2 days then increase to 3hrs.  Depending on your LO you might need more than this or the A times through the day may vary a little, these are tweaks you can make later on once it becomes clearer what is the most suitable.

During this routine change you might like to use W2S (wake to sleep) to help you LO transition from one sleep cycle to another. This is not considered a prop as it goes in cycles (do it 3 days then hold off for a day to see what happens, begin to use again if he needs another cycle or two) and also because it is a training method, teaching him that he is to sleep longer than 30/45 mins.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
Use your usual soothing method in the cot if it is shush/pat or a stroking or a firm hand, you can even rock him in the cot using a firm hand and jiggle it slightly as this will produce something similar to the bounce he likes but he will remain in the cot feeling the weight of his body on the mattress (very different from being in arms).  That's not to say you can't pick him up at all, you can, if the W2S doesn't get him through and he fully wakes and needs a cuddle pick up and do what you can to get him to resettle and back to sleep.

Depending on your family situation and how much energy you have you might like to focus on improving one nap for now, and leave the others until later, this can still be hard work but usually less tiring than tackling all naps in one go.  If you choose to focus on one nap it really needs to be the same nap each day to build a habit, I suggest the first nap of the day (so increase A time and use W2S or resettle to teach him to sleep longer).  Of course it is fine to tackle them all if you prefer.

Once the day sleep improves you may see a natural improvement to night sleep, lets see how it goes. It may be possible to work on shifting the entire routine later so later BT and later WU but this is perhaps something to look at after his A times are more age appropriate. It's hard to get an UT LO to sleep and to stay asleep.

Whilst all this is going on pleas record your EAS times. You will need to track E and S separately if you are aiming to E at 4hr intervals, it is kind of possible to do that if you watch out for time clashes and just adapt to bring E a bit earlier here and there to avoid it coming during S, or to let him go slightly over if it would be near the end of nap time.  Some times solids introduction means the milk E extends to more like 5 hrs but it depends on the LO and how they take to solids.

For re-introducing solids I would aim to offer about 1hr after a milk feed once or twice per day (breakfast and/or lunch), keep all milk in place.

I also wanted to say, don't worry too much about helping him through this phase.  It's clear you know when he needs extra cuddles, this difficulty you are having is most likely related to development and UT routine rather than props, he is likely to manage to self settle again once he is back on track.  The bouncing BTW, I always bounced/rocked my LO as part of wind down he was self settling at about 8 wks or under and I did the 'rocking' thing inside the cot if needed. Don't feel too bad about it!

Well, quite a lot there for you to wade through.
I hope this helps, and do shout out if you need further support.  It may be a little more quiet than usual around here over Xmas but there will still likely be someone around if you need help.
Please update in a few days so we can see how things are going - good luck.

[Jojo290615]

Wow thanks !!
I will start to stretch his awake time and then aim for 3 hours after the holidays and hopefully he will be over his leap ... And we will be able to get back on track again !

Merry Xmas !!
xxx

[creations]

Merry Xmas to you and your family too. Hope you have a good one even if naps are rubbish!
x

[Jojo290615]

Hi

I hope you had a great Xmas

Here is a bit of an update of the EMW and short naps

There doesn't seem to be much improvement so far ... I have extended my lb A time up to 2,5 hours, I have also tried extending naps with the W2sleep ... Hasn't worked 

Here is our new routine , I have been keeping a log of


Wake up betwwen 4:30/ 4:45... rocked to sleep in arms 5:30
Wake up for the day :6:00
Eat 6:15
Solids 7:30 porridge
Sleep:8:25-8:50 tried wake to sleep didn't work .. Yawning when up ... Left 10 minutes in cot to resettle
Eat: 10:00
Sleep: 11:30-12:00 tried to W2S 20 mins after .. Didn't work .. Tried resettle by rocking .. Didn't work .
13:00 Milk
14:45 -15:30 sleep
17:30 Bt routine
18:15 sleep
DF 22:00

This has been the roughly the same routine .. Give or take 30 /45 mins
In between eating and sleeping he has plenty of playtime etc..

He has been settling well at bedtime and in the night .. He is teething so we have been up a few times with him... But the waking up at 4.. And after 30 mins is habit

How can I get the w2sleep to work ? I go in 10 minutes before he wakes up .. I stroke his cheek or jiggle the bed so his eyes open for a second and he goes back ...

The sssh pat method doesn't work with my lo... It stimulates him more .. So does the PUPD.. So I try to resettle in bouncer or in arms ...

What else can I do ?
Should the W2S work straight away ?

Thanks again

[creations]

When he has those short naps are you able to pick him up to make him go back to sleep in arms?  Will he sleep longer if you do this or does he just want out of bed altogether?
In the crib, have you tried seeing him through the short nap Wu by helping him transition with rocking? I see shush/pat isn't liked but perhaps if you put a firm hand on him and rock side to side you might re-create a movement similar to the bouncer (I'm not familiar with what a bouncer is but my DS's hammock bounced if he kicked his legs, I was able to give him a jiggle with a firm hand both in there and in the crib), you can continue for 20 mins to get him back into deep sleep after the sleep cycle transition.
At this point any extending of the nap is useful to get him used to the idea of sleeping longer even if he cannot manage this on his own.

Honestly, it is early for me to judge why the W2S is not working at all, I would expect some success even if it meant you seeing him right he way through to deep sleep. It could however be that he needs a longer A time, 3hrs, if you have been on 2hr 30/45 for a few days I suggest increase again.
You can also try to resettle all the way up to the end of the nap time, this tells him that it is still sleep time, so he sleep say 30 mins, his nap ought to be 1hr 30.  Tracy gives us example in her book of keeping LO in the crib or bedroom trying to resettle until almost the end of the nap time, that's a hour of you trying to settle him.  We usually suggest stopping at 45 mins as E time approaches and LO might be more hungry a bit sooner due to having been awake that time rather than sleeping.

Following the expected nap time Tracy would keep LO awake until the next planned nap.  This means you count the A time from when the nap should have ended rather than counting from when LO woke up - in effect this is set nap times for several days to put in place a routine.  We often don't go all-out like that on the forums because it can be really hard work, LO can get OT and it can be exhausting for parents especially if you have no back up - however it really does work to get a routine in place.  So, if you are up for it this is also an option.  For this you would set naps and stick to those times even if LO did not sleep, if he fell asleep near the end of nap time you would wake him up when the nap was supposed to end even if he is super tried and cranky, and you would keep him up until the next nap time (or only put down a little earlier).  EG:
WU 6
A 3hr
S 9 - 10.30 (he wakes 9.45 but you continue to try to resettle until 10.30, if he nods off at 10 you wake him at 10.30)
A 3hr (in reality this is longer if you cannot resettle at 9.45 then A is really 9.45-1.30 meaning 3hr 45 or longer)
S 1.30 - 3.00 (if he doesn't sleep at 1.30 this makes A time even longer)
A 3hr
BT 6.00

So there are options, but it is also up to you what you feel comfortable with. In all options you stay with your child or return as soon as he cries/calls for you so there is no breaking of your bond of trust and no high cortisol levels. He may well kick off about being told to go back to sleep but you will be supporting him through this and eventually the tiredness is so much that he really will sleep when offered the chance.
What do you think?

[Antie66]

Hi creations, reading this post with interest and wondering whether it's something I should try with my LO (I have another post going, but no reply for a while with the holidays - perhaps you wouldn't mind having a look?). He is prop (boob) dependent though - could this 'override' the routine? i,e. Even if I stretch activity time to 3 hrs he still wakes up after 45 min (he resettles with nursng and falls back asleep)?

[Jojo290615]

Hi again
Thank you so much for reply and your advice ! I have had some great improvement with the naps since your last post.. Hopefully this will gradually make night time better too
He is teething at the moment and it does seem to be that waking him up ... And making him unsettled.

I realise now that I wasn't seeing him far enough into the cycle transition ... I was doing it for 10 minutes and thought he wasn't tired.. But I really gave it go and took him through all the way .. For 20 to 30 minutes and it worked !!!! Yayyyy even had to wake him up !
 And the second day the W2S worked for the first nap and kind of for the second nap.. Just had to jiggle his sleepyhead nest and it worked a treat !!!!!

Yes Sorry his bouncer is the babybjorn bouncer ..like a rocker I guess and it also bounces or rocks when he kicks his feet on it so I always use that for naps wind down time. And when he is really difficult to put down at night ... But this has only happened a couple of times.

Here is my routine log :

28 Dec

Rough nite ... Teething

Woke at 12:00, 3:00 4:00
Took him to bed 4:30 until 6:45 ... Settled him 3 times by just jiggling him in bed next to me

Milk at 7:00

Tired at 8:15, slept until 8:45
Settled in my arms until 9:15 slept until 9:45

Milk at 10:00
Solids at 11:45
Sleep at 12:30 wake at 13:00 ... Settled in arms to 13:15 back in crib and slept until 14:00 had to wake him

As 14:00 to 18:00 was a long A time, and he had had a bad night ...  He had. A nap at 16:00 until 16:30

Bedtime and milk 18:15
Sleep 18:45

Didn't dreamfeed him that night as it felt that we were waking him more, as he is teething he is more unsettled .. And we needed an early night but he was Quite wakeful until midnight ... So fed him at midnight he went back until 5:30... Could have been a bit earlier .. But we didnt hear him .. He was chatting happily to himself so we left him in his crib until 5:45 when we heard him pooing
Did hear him few times from midnight until 5:30... But he settled by himself.

29 Dec

WU:5:30
E: 6:00 milk  Porridge at 7:15
S: 8:00 ... Slept until 9:20 !!! Woke up happy and chatty so I left him there until 9:30...
E: 10:00 Milk Solids: 11:15 ( just tasting really)
Sleep: 12:25 -14:00!! Yayy

Put him in his bouncer to wind down around 12:15 ...yawned a few times so I picked him up and put him in cot .. Fussed a bit then I jiggled his sleepyhead to rock him and he fell asleep .. No crying ... nothing 😀
Started to stir a little around 12:55 in a light sleep. went in jiggled /rocked him a little in his sleepyhead...
Fell back to sleep again no fuss ! Woke up at 13:50!! Left him in his cot until 14:00

E: 14:00 Milk  Solids at 16:45
S: 16:00- 16:30
BT: 18:15 and milk
Sleep at 18:50

Just until he manages to increase completely until 3 hours awake time and his waking up at 6:00 gets better .. Is it ok for him to catnap at 16:00-16:30. He gets quite crabby around 17:00 and without that catnap he will not be happy at all 😄 it's also a time that I take him for a walk and he always sleeps in the pram.

I will aim for bedtime to be around 18:30.
Will this extra catnap disturb his night sleep in anyway ? Or confuse his 1:30 naps ?
That means his naps would total 3 ,5 hours .
 
Also just wondering what I could do when there is something that is likely to disturb his routine .. Being out or he will start swimming soon .. This will be at 13:00 and out of the house at 12:30 ...

Thanks again for your advice and help ! I'm so pleased with the outcome. Obviously this is early days but I will stick to it DS is quite an easy baby and does adapt quite easily to routines so I'm hoping that this will be the solution

xxx

[creations]

Yay!
Things really are looking up!

It's ok to CN if he needs it. I might be tempted to increase the A times, get 2 good naps and just drop it though, unless you need it for another reason.  You can also shorten the CN if you feel it interrupts with the night sleep, so just let him nod off for 20 mins or 10 etc as he gets older or as naps become stable.

Swimming - this just always gets in the way IMO!  Swimming is exhausting, LOs tend to be super tired (need a much shorter A) and super hungry directly after swimming. In addition the classes always seem to fall exactly when you don't want them (ie nap time) so you have to do an early short nap and then another nap later.  For some it messes with just one day and they get back on track the following day (try to make it a home day if you can or organise going out around naps so he doesn't have another disturbed day) but for some I have seen routines disturbed for several day and only getting back on track towards the end of the week, and then the swim class comes up again. If yours turns out to be the latter I'd suggest changing the daily routine for every day of the week to work with what is needed on a swim day, the predictability is probably more important than having the exact right A times and nap length.
I bet he enjoys the swimming though

[Jojo290615]

Yep he loves swimming and I agree all these kind of activities seem to fall on his nap time ! But I'll get to that bit when the time comes, he is good at adapting fast to routines dk hopefully he'll be back on track the next day

We are doing quite well , we are almost on 3 hours between naps ... The wake to sleep doesn't really work for him.. So we are extending his naps by rocking him .. Sometimes in the crib but mostly in the arms at the moment..
he has stopped waking up so early ... The last two days he has woken up at 5:30.. We leave him to babble in his cot as long as possible .. But often he has to poo almost as soon as he wakes up !
I have noticed today that he was still quite tired when I got him up .. But it was 5:45 and didn't seem worth trying to get him back.
I do find it quite tough to keep him awake and entertained before his first nap... He seems tired after just one hour of getting up .. Is this because he so used to getting his nap early ?
Will he gradually get used to these 3 hours before his first nap ?

[creations]

Did you try going in during the nap and just readying yourself to being rocking in the crib as he transitions?  It can often be easier to get LO back to sleep before they are fully awake, if he regularly wakes at a consistent time you can just go in 5-10 mins before this to get ready.

At this age LOs can appear tired for various reasons, if they have slept well they may yawn or appear tired after morning WU (do you ever feel dopey in the morning even though you slept well? (do you remember sleeping well??) I know if I have a lie in so have more sleep I feel more tired when I get up). They can also show sleepy signals when they are bored, changing activity can help.

[Jojo290615]

Funny enough I tried it today ! but right now his naps are varying between 30 and 40 and 45 mins ... So today I was on the watch out and as soon as he stirred I was there to help him through the transition. He cried when he realised I wasn't picking him up... But I put my arm and hand on his tummy .. So his face was snuggled against my arm but without picking him up and rocked his nest with the other hand and it worked Yayy !! He calmed down almost immediately, closed his eyes and was in a light sleep for about 15 minutes then he slept for an extra 40 minutes !!
I was so pleased !!

Yes I know what you mean with getting to much sleep ... Even though it does seem a distant memory
Well I'll carry on as I'm doing something seems to be working

Thanks again for all your help and advice ! )

[creations]

That's great progress it really is!!
Although it might seem like a lot of time and effort, and possibly a very uncomfortable position for you to make him feel snuggled (and rocked) whilst he is still in his crib it is a huge step for him, there is such a difference for him to go back to sleep laying down rather than in arms, this is a big step towards independence.
I'd say continue like that a couple of days if you can, this is teaching him so much, and then see if you can reduce just a little tiny bit how much you help.  So it might be to begin with the full-on help (arm and hand and rocking) but when he begins to calm you might lessen the rocking just a little, either a slower/less y rocky rocking speed or by intermittent rocking (stop for say 1 second then rock as usual for 3-4 seconds then stop for 1 second), there's no fixed rule on how to do this, I'm just describing how you might take small steps in reduction of help which works towards self settling skills. An intermittent rocking for instance is still rhythmical and soothing but as the days go by you have a way to reduce and reduce.

As things progress you might want to post your EAS times again to see how things are going and if any tweaks might be suggested.

You're doing great!

[Jojo290615]

Hi again !
I have started reducing the rocking for the maps transition and also when DS needs settling and it's going really well.
We also put him down awake and drowsy and settle him in there and that's also working:) I no longer pick him up if he fusses and no more rocking in the arms !
I just had a few questions ...
How long will it roughly take for him to be able transition by himelf ?
Just before his 30 minutes wake up I go in and start settling him .. He still "wakes" up .. Then goes into a very light sleep and this happens most of the time quite fast.. And he will be remain in this light sleep for almost 30 mins.. So during this time I just stand near by? Is this the right thing to do ?

We are still having the 4 o clock wake ups and he has allot of trouble getting ack to sleep again. This night I heard him fuss around 3:45 and he settled himself back but woke up again at 4;00 .. I left him to fuss and babble then went in when he started to cry .. And he was very upset ! Normally I would pick him up but I stuck to it and settled him in the crib...because I knew it would take longer to rock him and also probably wouldn't be able to put him down again. He finally fell asleep around 4:45 until 5:45 when he started pooing.
We moved him to his room on Sunday ... This has gone really well and sleep very well in there .. Except the 4:00 wake up..

How long will it take for the daily to impact the night waknings ? Or is there something else I can do ?
Here is our EAS we have been following:

WU: 5:45... Try to leave him until 6:00 if he hasn't pooed
E: 6:00
S: 8:45/9:00
E:10:00 or 10:30 depending if he sleeps the full 1:30
S:13:00 or 1:30
E: 14:00 or 14:30.
CN:20 minutes around 16:00
BT: 18:30/18:45
DF: 22:00

He normally does sleep 1:30 for his naps but a few times has woken up a bit earlier or after 1 hour. This is of course after helping him through the transition.

Is there any tweaking I could do ? Or just be patient for the routine to settle and impact the night waknings.

Thanks !

[creations]

Good to hear things are going well

How long will it roughly take for him to be able transition by himelf ?
Just before his 30 minutes wake up I go in and start settling him .. He still "wakes" up .. Then goes into a very light sleep and this happens most of the time quite fast.. And he will be remain in this light sleep for almost 30 mins.. So during this time I just stand near by? Is this the right thing to do ?

Yes, you're doing great. If you are going in every day for the 30 min wake up then I suggest on one of the days you just observe without beginning the settling. Usually with W2S you use it for days 1,2,3 then hold off day 4 to observe and see him he can self settle (if not then you can help but he will have fully woken on this day so the nap may not go so well), if he did not self settle day 4 then begin W2S again days 5,6,7 and hold off day 8.  If he does self settle on the observation day then that's it, success   You can stop going in to W2S.

He still "wakes" up ..

This is very normal. Adults wake up several times per night at the sleep cycle end when we transition to another cycle, it happens and we don't even remember it but this is the time in the night we turn over (or listen out to check all is well).  LOs do still wake up but will self settle and go back to sleep when they are independent sleepers.  Sounds like you are there, or almost there.  At the put down for nap do your usual wind down and put him in, settle in the cot and see if you can stop the settling just before he is asleep, be there and start up again if you are needed but just try to stop a little sooner.  It's ok to do a bit of stop-start.

We are still having the 4 o clock wake ups and he has allot of trouble getting ack to sleep again.

If you can face it you can do a W2S at around 3am or 3.30am and see if it changes things.  Of course if he is pooing in the night there is not much you can do other than ride it out.  Sometimes altering feed times can alter poo times, have you started solids?  There might be something there which could be changed but it doesn't always solve night poos.  As they get older their body does work out to poo in the day instead.

Is he getting close to 7 months now or more like 6.5 months?  I mean, there is a chance that cutting the CN out could help with the day sleep and the NW, but you would really need both naps to be a suitable length to drop the CN, bit of a catch 22 there. You could extend the first 2 A times by say 10 mins and see if that helps him to transition alone and extend the nap to a proper 1.5 to 2hrs which would help you skip the CN and do an earlier BT instead.  There's a chance that his second nap is short because he knows a CN is coming later.
I'd try the observation on W2S and perhaps try a 10 min A increase and see if it helps over the next few days. Then if you get 2 good naps drop the CN and bring BT earlier (no more than 3 hrs A)

hth