8 month old disturbed sleep, throwing schedule out

[Emmajayne]

Hello everyone

Hoping someone can help with my 8 month old son, his sleep at night has been quite disturbed during the last two weeks.

Last night he was up for 4-6am, he was not full blown crying but moaning lots and everytime I got him back to sleep he woke up 5 minutes later. In the end I fed him at about 5.54
(he downed 6oz) and the slept until 9am! Now his schedule today is completely thrown out! He is a really good eater during the day so I was surprised he took 6oz last night but I was not sure what else to try.

Could it be that I react too quickly to his moaning? Would you only ever change a nappy that was dirty and not wet during the night?

Here is his typical schedule:

7am wake
7.30-8am bottle and breakfast
10am-11.30 nap
11.30 bottle
12pm lunch
2.30 - 3.30 nap
4pm bottle
5pm dinner
6.30 bath, bottle and bed
10.30 DF 6oz

I am going back to work soon so really need to fix this, any suggestions would be very appreciated!

[Emmajayne]

Can anyone help? 

[Kellyjs]

Hi sorry for the late reply.

How long has he been on this routine for? I'm thinking it might be a little while as that first A is a tad on the short side. The day could do with being lengthened slightly too I'd expect at around this age.

First off I'd check for any signs of teething. Failing that, I would then look at extending that first A by 15mins and that should then push back the other nap and BT too working off the same A times for now. Wdyt? I would think it might need extending again in time, but that should be a good place to start?

Personally I wouldn't change a wet nappy at that age unless it was completely sodden through and had leaked a bit. I have changed DD at night when she wouldn't settle just to rule it out, but tbh ours were usually either a routine tweak that was needed, a developmental leap or teething xx

[freewheelnat]

Have you considered trying to drop the DF? My little one is 7 months and we dropped the DF 10 days ago - after a couple of agitated nights (she woke up at 11pm - once for 1 hour), we've had much better nights. It seems counter intuitive but it seems that the DF (for which she was increasingly awake btw) was disturbing her sleep.

I only change a nappy at night if there's a leak, because I have found that a soaked nappy was never the cause for night wakings in the past so I'm not bothering with it anymore. It depends on your LO though, some are more bothered by it than others (my DS doesn't seem to care at all, even when there's a massive leak!).

[Emmajayne]

Thank you both so much, lots of things to try. We had another 4-6am awake last night then back to sleep (only after s bottle) until 8am.

We have been on this routine for 8 weeks or so, previously he was only on 2 hour A time and I was on the forum because of early wakings!

When you say his day should be lengthened do you mean a later be time? I don't think it's teeth because he is happy as Larry during the day, chewing on lots of things but that's all atm.

So, should I try extending the A time in the morning to 3.15 and drop the DF at the same time? Freewheelnat did you do this cold turkey? What did you when they naturally woke for it? Feed water? Shush pat?

Thanks for the nappy advice, we changed a wet one last night about 5am and that was him awake!

[freewheelnat]

For DF, hers was at 10pm for 7oz.

For 3 days, gave it at 9.30 at 6oz (added 1oz to first morning feed) then for 3 days, gave it at 9.00 at 5oz (added 1oz to second day feed, which is late morning).

Then, I got fed up with this gradual plan and went cold turkey on the same night that we moved her to her own bedroom (as I didn't have a chair set up in her bedroom and I was worried about the DF being a mess). She woke up that night at 10.30 (got her back to sleep with a dummy), then following night at 11.30 (again, got her back to sleep with dummy), and third night, she didn't wake up until 5am (which is usual for her, and got her back to sleep with dummy as usual).

When I dropped it cold turkey, I added 1oz to her third feed of the day. So now, she gets 3 milk feeds a day, for a total of 20oz (8, 6, 6), instead of 3 feeds + DF (for a total of 24oz: 7, 5, 5, 7).

[Kellyjs]

Excellent advice from pp wrt dropping the DF. We did something similar too then went cold turkey when it was down to 3oz.

It is classic UT behaviour waking at that time for that long. It usually means an A time increase is in order for the day. Remember these bubbas like to increase their A time at a rate of around 15mins every couple of weeks or so just to keep us on our toes.

3hrs A is ok for an 8mo but this is where the averages start to space out somewhat. Mine was doing 4.5hrs first A for a 1.5hr nap and partly down the 2-1 transition as we couldn't fit in two 4.5hrs A int he day anymore! Not saying yours is ready for that at all, but the variation of what's normal is quite large now. We need to look for the warning signs. The fact he's been on the same routine, I would now suspect an A time increase is needed. Can you start with what I suggested before about adding on 15mins onto that first A so it lengthens out your day a little? We prefer to add onto the first A rather than the last as I hate OT before BT. Much rather deal with any OT in the beginning of the day. I wouldn't expect you'd have an issue though. Fancy giving it a shot and let me know how it goes?

Ideally I'd like to get to at least a 12hr day for now. By the time we get there, he might need it all increasing again anyway  xx

[Emmajayne]

Thanks again both! Yes from tomorrow we will try for 3.15 A time. Will report back after a few days!

[Kellyjs]

Good luck and keep us posted!  xx

[Emmajayne]

Hello both, so we had a slightly better night and decided to drop the DF cold turkey. He went through until 3am and only needed a little help getting back to sleep.

I have a couple more questions if you don't mind!
For the 3.15 A time is this time until he is asleep or 3.15 to wind him down (we do nappy change, story etc before a nap).

Should it be 3.15 for both A times? This morning was not too bad but we only made it until 3 this afternoon as he was rubbling his eyes like mad, yawning and then started crying! 

[Kellyjs]

They can start to show a preference for staggered A times at this age. I'd keep with it for another day and see how it goes. Sometimes extra stimulation from whatever happened in the A time can have an impact too, so basing it off one day is hard to tell. Keep a note on how he settles and how long the naps are and we can start to tweak it for his individual preferences.

For example my DD was on 4.5hr first A for a 1.5hr nap, 3.5hr 2nd A to ensure an UT nap and then only 2.5hrs to BT. Even after a short nap 2.5hrs is quite low for an 8mo, but it's just what she liked at the time. Whereas 4.5hrs first A was rather high for her age xx

[Emmajayne]

Hello both

So I have tweaked things for the last few days and I would love to say there has been an improvement but we are a little all over the place. We are now up to 3.15 A time although due to late time waking up we are not managing it for the second A time. What I also know about this week: no teeth I don't think (only symptom is the waking) and we are mid-wonder week (categories).

Friday(today)
Woke 8.30am
3.15 A time
2 hour nap at 11.45
Could not get him to nap again (too long at lunch I think!)
Bed by 6.45, settled very well.

Thursday:
Woke 7.45am
First A time was long as we were out (4 hours)
Napped for 30 mins in the morning and 1.5 in the afternoon (4pm - 5.30pm) as we were out in the AM
Bad nights sleep - woke 1am, 1.30, 3 and 5am. In the end I could not settle him so at 3am he had 6oz. The other WU I managed to settle with a dummy.


Wednesday
Woke 8.30am
Had a busy day out in town and napped for 1 hour in the morning and 1.5 in the afternoon.
Did not settle at all well, went to sleep eventually at 7.30. Woke at 3am, settled well within a dummy.

Tuesday
Woke 8am
Day at the house, slept for 1.5 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon. Only managed 2hours A time in the afternoon he was so tired but we had a very bad night!
Bed by 7pm, settled very easily.

Monday
Woke 8am
Slept for 30mins in the car in the morning (3.15 A time) and 2 hours in the afternoon.
Took ages to settle in the evening - from 7.15 until 8pm. He was then up at 10.30pm until 12.30am (in the end we fed him 7oz) then again at 5am (settled with dummy) and then 8am.

I am not sure if part of the problem is the late WU? When he has a bad night though I am so tired I will just let him sleep but it's certainly pushing things back. I should also mention that we dropped the DF - unsure if this has helped as twice over the last week we have had to feed him in the night to get him to settle. However, he is having 3 good meals a day and now refusing him lunchtime bottle which makes me think it's not hunger.

Extending the A times has certainly helped him nap longer and with early WU but still feel things are not quite right.

Any help appreciated xx

[Kellyjs]

Friday looked good albeit he's probably much too young to keep doing that continually. Well done on getting an EBT in there.

I wonder if generally the day length isn't quite lomg enough when he does do 2 reasonable naps. Like on Monday for example. If he does lie in in the morning, I think you might have to accept a later BT. Or another option is waking him by a set time every morning wdyt?

So we do know the 2hr 15mins yields a good first nap. I think that nap was too late on Thursday so good to know for future. All of this is really useful information and much better than where we started out eh? Let me know what you think about a set wu time or later BT and we'll take it from there xx