Shh pat not working for naps

[ruby242]

Hi all
We have just started doing shh pat with our 4.5month old and have had some success at nighttime, both at bedtime and resettling for night wakings-he sometimes complains a little but soon settles. However daytime naps have been hard work, he has ended up in complete hysterics and sometimes we have had to abandon and feed to sleep. I find it very stressful when he has meltdowns. I'm just wondering if its normal for naptimes to be harder work than bedtime? Should we just keep persisting through the hysterics? Am losing hope that it will work!

[trimbler]

Hi there and welcome to BW forums Sorry you haven't had a reply yet, quite a few of us have been away over the holiday season but things should be returning to normal over the next few days...

Well done with the BT and NW settling, great work Yes IME naps are often much harder than nights, I think it's even a different part of the brain that controls daytime and night-time sleep! LOs will often sort out their nights before their daytime nap routine, so don't worry it's all pretty normal, although also pretty tough - btdt

Just a couple of thoughts for now - sometimes a change of routine is what's needed for helping our LOs to settle more easily, so please could you post your current routine - even if it looks a bit messy atm, eg

Up and E: 7am
S: 9:30-10:30 (started shh pat at 8:45 but screamed for 30mins and ended up feeding to sleep, tried to resettle but no luck)
E: 11
S: you get the idea?

I would suggest thought that if you're wanting to teach him to sleep without nursing, you'll need to be consistent, otherwise he may end up screaming/protesting because he knows if he carries on long enough, you'll nurse. I know it's tough, so a couple of suggestions to help: use ear plugs (you'll still hear him but won't get a headache from the screaming ); decide on a time (Tracy suggested 45mins) after which you'll give up and leave the room with him for a few minutes, before going back and trying again (if he still doesn't sleep after another 45 then give up on that nap and feed, he'll be hungry); decide on one or more naps in the day to 'APOP' (accidental parenting on purpose) - ie use the sling or pram or hold him or whatever else you need to do to get a nice long nap out of him, to catch up on lost sleep and help him to feel more rested and so more able to settle with shh pat next time).

Hope that gives you a few ideas, look forward to seeing your routine for a recent day or two, hopefully that will give us a few more clues to work with. (((hugs))) this age is tough, hang on in there and we'll walk through this with you

[ruby242]

Hello
Thanks so much for your reply and advice. Since posting I have had success with naps and now have him falling asleep relatively quickly without much crying. However in order to do this I've had to walk holding him for a few mins as a wind down before starting the shh pat. I know the book says to hold them still however if I do this the hysterics start so Im thinking if I get him used to this way and then gradually reduce the walking-do you think that's a good idea? The days do change day to day but have posted what happened today-I don't technically do easy as he will only nap for 35min and feed every 3-4hrs

7-awake and feed
9:10-asleep cot went to sleep well 35min
10.20 feed
11.05 sleep car 35min
1.20-2 sleep
2.10 feed
4 sleep cot went to sleep after only a small cry 35m
5.45 feed
bath
6.40 quick top-up feed before bed
7 asleep in cot fell asleep within 5mins
Many night wakeups (4-6 normally) with 2 feeds


I have tried extending the naps with wake to sleep and also shh pat once awake with no success. Will try tomorrow going in and patting 5mins before he wakes and see how that goes.

He is still waking a lot in the night (4-6 times), im now feeding just twice and other times resettling with patting. No improvement on night wakeups since starting the shh pat, does it normally take a while to make a difference to wakeups?

Thanks so much

[trimbler]

Great to hear you've had some success with naps, well done Yes, do what you need to do for your wind down, that's just right - responding to your individual LO and respecting what he needs and wants is just what Tracy would encourage you to do

Shh pat should help with night wakings if the daytime routine is good, but it's quite likely that he may be OT by BT with all those short naps, none of which would be very restorative. Don't worry it's really common at this age, but I think that working on the daytime routine and getting some longer naps in could help with the nights. Does he tend to wake at the same sorts of times at night? Ie during the first few hours after BT, or is it later on in the night, or just spread throughout?

Just to get an idea about what changes he may need to his routine, let's start with the first A time and first nap, and take it from there? How long has he been doing 2h10mins first A time? Has he ever done a longer nap, and if so, what A time did he do before it? What happens when he wakes at 35mins? Is he crying/fussing/screaming/making happy sounds? How long do you try to resettle him for? How does he react when you do so, does he seem like he might want to go back to sleep, is he yawning between cries, etc? When you get him up after a short nap, does he seem happy, or still tired and like he would have benefitted from some more sleep? I'm just trying to gauge whether he needs that A time pulling back a bit if he's OT (which can cause short naps of around 35mins or even less) or extended if he's UT (which can also cause short naps...) - wdyt? My hope is that once we get an idea of what A time he needs for a good first nap, we can use that knowledge to lengthen his other naps, and get him better rested during the day so that he sleeps better at night.

In the meantime, are there any props you can use, even just for one nap a day (don't worry about affecting sleep training, it sounds like he's making good progress there), to help him to get a nice long nap and so catch up on OT after the short naps? I relied on being able to do this in the sling with both of mine, it helped my sanity too

Let me know how it goes with the w2s, you'll need to keep it up for a few days so don't give up if it doesn't work straight away. I never had great success resettling after short naps, but kept at it all the same and sometimes it paid off when they got back off again for another 45mins or longer - it was worth it just for those times, and ultimately they both learned how to take longer naps by themselves