Author Topic: Any help appreciated  (Read 1452 times)

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Offline bakerbaz04

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Any help appreciated
« on: January 05, 2016, 03:02:49 am »
Hi,

I hope this post isnt too tedious or has been covered in another topic , however after having a browse to see if this is the case i soon realised i have no idea what half of the acronyms stand for or mean. (perhaps something to do with being a man  ::)

A bit about our situation;

George is our 18 month old son who is not sleeping well at all, undoubtedly due to us. He is currently under review from Docs due to choking/gagging on his phlegm and sometimes being unable to clear this without mine or my wifes intervention (scary stuff). Since being on anti histamine he seems to of improved slightly although we are still searching for the root cause. Because of his medical history when he gets upset/cries he invariably coughs, gags and chokes so its hard to leave him when this happens.  He normally has an evening bath and wathces In The Night Garden, then goes to bed with a bottle ,which i now think may be some part of the problem as he relies on this to go to sleep.

He is in a toddler bed and in the night will get out and sit by the door. As a last effort before we consult a professional i thought i would ask for some advice on the forum. I work a lot of night shifts (hence the time of the post) and i hate leaving my wife on her own knowing she will be exhausted.

Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully for any help/advice you can offer.

Mark

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 03:37:57 am »
Hi Mark...welcome to BW! First off this might help with acronyms :) Site Acronyms/Abbreviations - What they are, and what they mean.

I just have a few questions about your DS to help get a clear picture! What is his routine like - ie wake time, nap time(s), bedtime etc? Is he in a toddler bed because he can get out of a crib? (although I did put DD2 in a toddler bed at this age it is pretty young!).

The choking/phlegm sounds scary! Personally I would gravitate to more of a gradual withdrawal approach to lessen this while. In the BW method we do not condone any type of CC or CIO (not to say there won't be crying or upset but the idea is you are there with him to help him learn an new way to get to sleep). I agree that the bottle has become a prop - as well.it can be bad for their teeth if they don't get brushed before bed.
Heidi




Offline bakerbaz04

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 04:01:41 am »
Hi MSE,

Thanks for replying, his routine is pretty relaxed, which looking at the forum i think may attribute to the problem.

He will generally wake up anytime between 0500-0700 (really is a mixed bag)
Depending on what time we sometimes give him a bottle to get him back if possible.

He is a climber and started to try and get out of cot and also he fidgets an awful lot and would constantly bang his head when asleep and disturb himself

Going to bed I normally try to pack all his toys away then give him a bath, then once he has had his bath he will come down and sit with his bottle watching ITNG before going to bed to finish his bottle. Then he will mostly always cry and i will lay with him until he falls asleep then creep out until he next wakes up in the middle of the night. Naps again differ from day to day (there is a recurring theme here!!) I think trying to determine a consistent routine with the wife would be a good place to start.

With GW do you just start the cyle again when NW's occur? i.e if i stroke his hair until he falls asleep then leave do i stroke his hair again to get him back off?

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 13:09:28 pm »
Is he on one nap or two naps? Has he ever been able to go to sleep independently? With the hair stroking, that is probably a prop as well as the bottle so I would be wanting to shorten the time you do that as well as gradually shortening how long you stay in the room (given the medical side of things though this may be in very small steps!). My DD3 loved having her hands held and rubbed and at about this age I did manage to wean that habit but it was not pretty!

Does he have good receptive language skills? If so I would not underestimate the benefit of talking to him about the change you decide to make out of the moment (ie no more bottle in bed, etc) to see if it helps.
Heidi




Offline bakerbaz04

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 18:04:13 pm »
He generally has one main nap then steals half an hour in the car.

Receptive language is good but he isn't the biggest talker.

So with the bottle and hair stroking am I best to just stop straight away? Or just put less and less in the bottle ? Do I need to start sleeping in bed with him in order to start GW? Is there a detailed explanation of GW? Should I try wi/wo first ?

DW is on her own tonight again as I am working nights so she has started nailing a solid routine down , dinner with DS1, bath with DS1 , naked play , book , bottle , INTG and bed. I've asked her to diary all times and events including food and naps so we can structure a schedule that works for him.

Offline bakerbaz04

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 19:02:29 pm »
Update:

DW has just told me she gave him a massage following my advice (via the forum) and he loved it  ;D ;D

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2016, 00:23:33 am »
Nice! Sounds like a lovely relaxing time for them both.

Personally I would just move the milk drink earlier (ie if he doesn't finish while watching his show that is it) and then brush teeth before bed, at this age reducing amounts is just tedious and they will be upset once you stop at that time anyways.

Oh there is a good link on wi/wo and gw I will find that...I woud probably not use wi/wo if he has never slept independently. I would not start in the bed with him unless that is what you currently do (lol I remember doing that with DD2 in a toddler bed - was hard to sneak out!!). Don't underestimate his ability to understand even if he is not a big talker - talk about the new routine! Also having a key phrase during bedtime/naptime settling can help.

Here is that link: Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

And lots more on toddler sleep here: Toddler Specific Sleep Training Advice

Heidi




Offline bakerbaz04

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 02:59:41 am »
MSE,

Many thanks I appreciate the help.

DW text to say that DS was crying and would not stop so she had to take him for a drive to get him to sleep (not good i know). I only have one more night shift to go then off for a week so I will be armed ready with routine and tools to get him sleeping independently (touch wood). I will have a good read up on GW as i think it will be difficult as we have been really inconsistent (bottle in bed, giving in, laying with him).

I read in the wind down topic that someone said they have a TV in DS room with relaxing programme which helps him get to sleep, is this something you would warn against? I only ask as DS seems really relaxed when he watches certain programmes and has on occasion fallen asleep doing so.

(it is now 03:00 and i havent heard from DW so I can only assume DS hasnt woken since being moved from car to bed)

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2016, 04:41:59 am »
Fx he stayed asleep for her! Sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes!

The tv in the bedroom is a choice you will have to make...it is not something I have done or ever plan to do (lol I don't have one in my room either). I know a lot of people might do so but having screen time close to bed time (whether tv or tablet etc) can be disruptive to sleep habits.

I think whatever way you decide to tackle this being consistent in the approach (but not totally strict and inflexible!) will be important. I would suggest as well that by this age most kids are on one nap, so I would look to a one nap routine which may help with the settling at night if he is more tired.
Heidi




Offline bakerbaz04

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 18:22:09 pm »
My first night home last night and DS was an angel. He only had one nap and DW had done wind down and put him to bed while I took DSS to football training. She put him down with a bottle but he slept through until 06:30 am from 19:00. He stirred twice in the night but managed to settle himself off to sleep.

Wind down has gone well today , massage , followed by bath , Thomas and bottle. Touch wood he sleeps as well tonight.!!!

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 14:14:49 pm »
Fx the night was good!
Heidi




Offline bakerbaz04

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2016, 20:54:29 pm »
Heidi ,

When doing GW, if NW occur should I go back in and start again? I.e sit down next to the bed until DS goes back to sleep ?

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2016, 21:08:55 pm »
Not necessarily...I always start with the least interaction possible - I go in the room, reach in the crib and check if she is tucked in and ask if she is ok (usually she is fine!) and then I say good night and walk out. I would only sit and stay if she really kicks up or seems in pain (ie teething or illness). The thing is if you leave the room and things go awry just go back and sit with him.  I imagine you will find (as I have) that eventually you can use wi/wo instead of gw as they get older.  How have things been going otherwise?
Heidi




Offline bakerbaz04

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2016, 14:13:53 pm »
So so really , some good nights some bad. I've just done the last 7 nights with him and it has been manageable but I go back on to nights tonight so DW is dreading it.

Last night wasn't the greatest. Took me 1hr45 minutes to get him to sleep, much to my disappointment as I was supposed to be watching my beloved Chelsea ( the things we do for kids) he also had a NW at around 2 but I settled him back off with out milk , and then EW at 5:10 but again I got him back off , though I also fell asleep on his floor  ;D ;D
I think yesterday was due to the fact DW takes her nan out on a weds so nap time is all over the shop. He has napped from 11:30 until 13:15 today and went down more or less like a dream, he had his TV on for a while but no bottle or me. Hopefully that makes tonight a little more bearable.

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Re: Any help appreciated
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2016, 04:36:23 am »
Ah yes I have fallen asleep on the floor in DD3's room more often than I care to admit! So awesome that you got him back to sleep at the nw's! Was the night any better after the good nap? I hope so.

Just a thought - could the tv before bed be hindering rather than helping? I have read a lot of articles that suggest screen time before bed is not conducive to good sleep (and for adults as well as kids). We usually turn the tv off about an hour before bedtime here.
Heidi