Second day of no dummy!!

[labrodyk]

Hi mummies!

We took our 3mo daughter's dummy/paci away yesterday and today's naps have been off the chart where she previously only napped for 30-40 minutes.

Our EASY has been;

4-Jan
S: 6.30pm; asleep 7.10
NF: 12.50am
S: 1.20-6.20am

WU: 6.20
E: 6.30
A:
S: 7.52. Asleep 7.57-10.45! Resettled herself after 45 minutes - had a frizzle and lay quietly then drifted off again.
E: 10.45
A:
S: 12.30. Asleep 12.35 - 2.50. Again, woke at 45 minutes but grizzled/lay quietly before falling asleep again.
E: 3.00
S:  4.12. Asleep 4.20 - 4.47

The last catnap is what I'm curious about. I was prepared for a short nap but perhaps not that short. I was seeing some tired signs (yawn) at the 1hr A but put her down as she showed more cues closer to 1.5hrs. I did try to resettle her with no luck - should I bother resettling that last sleep or Just get her up when she wakes regardless given her other sleeps were so good? I'll aim for a 6.30 bedtime

I am so proud of her and especially considering it's only day 2 of no dummy. Whether it continues or not I'm not sure so I could be shushing/patting a while yet.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Yay! Sounds promising! I would say the short last nap was probably ut from such good earlier naps. Long may the good naps continue!

[labrodyk]

Unfortunately not We're getting all short naps now around the 30/35 minute mark and waking crying. It can take 45 minutes or more for her to resettle for another 30 or 40 minutes. I think I'm getting her cues right and she's back in bed at the 1hr20m mark and usually falls asleep after some grizzling or patting in 10-15minutes. Here is our easy for the last few days;

6-Jan
NF: 6.00
S: 6.20 - 8.00
E: 9.35
S: 10.35-10.55 (car)
S: 11.40; asleep 12.00-12.40. Tried to resettle until 1.30
E: 1.35pm
S: 2.32; asleep 2.45-3.13, 3.17-3.30, 3.50-5.30
E: 5.30
E: 6.40
S: 7.00; asleep 7.15-11.45pm
NF: 11.45
S: 12.10-2.47
NF: 2.50
S: 3.00-6.50am

7-Jan
WU: 6.50
E: 7.00, top up before 8.00
S: 8.30; asleep 8.40-9.16, 9.55-11.09
E: 11.15am, to up by 12.15
S: 12.30, asleep 12.40 - 1.08, 1.18-2.00 (resettled herself)
E: 2.20, top up at 2.50
S: 3.20, asleep 3.35 - 4.09

It's 4.50 and I'm still trying to settle her!! I have no idea what I'm doing wrong

[labrodyk]

Needing a bit of a hug and reassurance today! Our days are stuffed and today has been tears for both Audrey and myself...

Last night I finally got her to sleep at 6.45 but her first waking is getting earlier and she woke at 9.45 as opposed to the stretches until after midnight she was doing! I tried to resettle for 45 minutes but that was fruitless and of course I just ended up feeding her at 10.30. She was asleep again at 10.45ish and then slept through to 3.45 for another feed and then up from just after 7.10. The day quickly disintegrated from there.

WU: 7.10am
E: 7.30am - fussy, didn't drink much.
A:
S: 9.00am; asleep 9.10-9.44. Wouldn't resettle no matter how hard I tried. I even got her up and tried again but no luck.
E: 11.00 - considering she didn't have much to drink earlier she was fussy and was disinterested/reluctant to drink this bottle too.
A:
S:
12.58; asleep 1.02-2.20. Woke several times but resettled herself with a brief cry out/whinge.
E: 3.00 - same as previous feeds
S: 4.20pm; asleep 4.30pm - 4.57pm. No luck resettling
A: bath
E: 6.00pm - finally drank a bottle!! DH put some teething gel on prior to her bath, perhaps that helped.
S: 6.25pm into bed. Whinged, squirmed around wide eyed, sucking frantically on her hands/swaddle. Asleep at 6.55

She's 13 weeks old, her tired cues are practically non existent and when I've put down at her tired cues she naps the same duration. She sleeps in a love to dream swaddle (zip in suit with arms up - https://lovetodream.com.au/swaddle-up-summer-lite/) and she's been saturating her hands by sucking and drooling all over them each sleep. I noticed she's got a tooth bud poking through on the bottom gum and wondered if teething was involved but seriously she's never slept well. Even after the short naps she lay on her play mat or outside looking around, smiling etc. she looked shattered though so I'm completely clueless. More A time, less A time, it seemingly makes no difference.

Please help me. Should I make another post?

[labrodyk]

Getting out and about certainly doesn't work either   the only positive with removing the dummy in the car is that she's stopped screaming to fall asleep and will grizzle and self settle.  Today we had two car naps of 20-30 minutes each and after trying to settle her in the portacot at my in-laws for HOURS we went for a walk in the pram. She stared at the covered pram as we walked for quite some time, only falling asleep for 30mins once I turned the lullaby music on from my phone and pushed the pram back and diet as opposed to continuous walking!! Talk about spirited and touchy, was a very tiring day. She positively crashed when I put her to bed tonight - cried for a little while but she was doing it with her eyes closed she was so exhausted.

EASY
NF: 1.15am
S: 1.35 - 5.15am
NF: 5.15am
S: 6.15am - 8.35am
E: 9.00 - not much. Offered again at 10.00, still disinterested
* into the car
S: 10.35 - 11.08
Attempted aleep again in portacot from 12-1
Into pram at 1.00pm
S: 1.35 a 2.02pm
E: 2.30 - tried not to force the bottle but again didn't drink much at all.
S: 4.05 - 4.26pm in the car!
E: 5.30 - drank a little more but only approx 100ml
S: 5.55; asleep 6.15pm

I've taken away all the negative sleep associations so I can't work out why she can't resettle between those cycles. She did it that one day and she does it all night so I can't quite understand how to fix it. I'm following her cues as best I can, she's usually asleep well before 2hrs which I know is the recommended max for her age. And she smiles and laughs at me when she's had a short nap even though her eyes have black circles and she looks exhausted. So incredibly frustrating - I just want to help her get the rest she needs but can't crack it.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Sorry was away for an appt! Aww sounds like a frustrating day! This is about the age where I remember things going wonky for a time - those 45 min sleep cycles really kicked in. If she is potentially teething too then that makes things even more unpredictable!

Have you always stucm to more average or lower A times? Just wondering perhaps if she is one of those lo who could do with more A time than the usual?

[labrodyk]

Oh don't apologize, I was just venting out loud! I've stuck to average A times purely because she's difficult to read and I've wanted to avoid over-tiredness. She wakes tired and cranky but once up she just looks around and isn't overly miserable, until I try and aim for another sleep but because her signs aren't there I never know whether to put her down after 20 minutes or a full 1-1.5hr A.

After the short naps yesterday she slept;

S: 6.15-12.10
NF: 12.15
S: 12.35-5.25
NF: 5.30
S: 6.15 - 7.35
** took ages to settle after this feed, crying and upset.
E: 7.40, not interested

[labrodyk]

Today has been just as bad...

E: kept trying from 7.40-sleep time. Drank reluctantly
S: 9.30; 9.40-10.30, 10.45-11.10
A:
S: 12.20 (shush pat) - 12.48
E: 1.00
S: 2.00; falling asleep in arms on wind down. Shush pat in cot asleep 2.20 -3.00. Whinged off and on trying to resettle until 3.50. Got her up.
S: 4.38; asleep 4.48-5.27

Since taking the dummy she's found her hands in her swaddle up suit but she is DRENCHING them! The suit is saturated - is that normal sucking behaviour? She's also had really watery poo - not the consistency of formula at all. I'm going to go back to the doctor and ask for more losec for her reflux and start it again incase that's part of the issue...

Eta:
S: 4.38; asleep 4.48-5.27pm
E: half a bottle (finally!!)
A: bath
E: remainder of bottle (yay!)
A:
S: 6.55, brief cry but is laying quietly frantically sucking her hand through her swaddle 35 mins later :ASLEEP 7.45!!!  What the!?

I tried a dreamfeed for the first time last night too...
DF: 10.30
S: 10.45-3.10
NF: 3.10
S: 3.25-5.35
I resettled her at 5.35 with patting briefly and she went back to sleep.

Should I be waking her in the morning? It's 8am now and she's still asleep. The thought of waking her makes me ill but I'm still trying to preserve a 7/7.30 bedtime but often because of rubbish naps it's as early as 6. Is this an issue?

[labrodyk]

I had to wake her by 8.40am for a doctors' appointment

WU: 8.40
E: 8.45 - not eating much
A:
E: I offered a big top up at 10.10-10.30.
S: 10.30 (in bed awake not fed to sleep); asleep 10.45-2.05!!!! Major catch up sleep
E: 2.10 - again, not a lot to eat.
S: 4.00 - fell asleep at 4.15 after some fussing for about 10/15 minutes. I assume under-tired but she was grizzly and is in bed still grizzling with her eyes closed.  with  now it's a very long time until bedtime.
S: 6.20; whinged/cry for a while. Patted to sleep at 7.20!

She's taking so long to settle tonight - the heat is unbearable but she's so tired. She didn't show a single tired sign between the two naps she had today or from the time I got her up until I put her in bed. Smiles and just sitting quietly looking around holding her toys and sucking her teether.  It's so confusing.

[labrodyk]

We did the DF again last night but she woke 3 hrs later so she had 3 feeds overnight...

DF: 10.30
NF: 1.38
NF: 5.08
WU: 8.00
E: 8.20 - distracted, not hungry
A:
S: 9.30; asleep 9.45 - 10.30. I tried to get her to resettle until 11.30 but no luck.
A:
E: 12.00 - distracted and again was a real struggle
S: 12.40; asleep 12.50 - 4.00pm!
E: 4.10 - full bottle finally!
A: bath
E: 5.45pm top up (50ml)
S: 6.00, asleep 6.35. Crying and fussing. Woke at 6.45 crying and tried to resettle. 7.20 and she's been laying awake staring around the room, finally stopped fussing and fell asleep at 7.40

None of our days make any sense and are all over the place from wakeup to bedtime What should I do?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I found this age is often when tired signs became unreliable. Is she teething? The excessive drool makes it seem so and from the little I know of reflux there can be flares when teething. Tbh with my last two kids I did more set naps as it was just a load off of guessing A times. But with teething etc things always got crazy.

That was a whopper of a nap! Seems like she was having a bit of a catch up but I wonder if she got a bit ot before bed?

[labrodyk]

Thanks Heidi!!

One thing for sure is that I positively cannot work out effective A times. Naps are all over the place and I'm apop'ing a lot of naps in the pram or car but she'll never do any longer than 30-40minutes in there either....

I can see teeth buds but they could take months to pop through I guess and we're only weeks away from the 4 month sleep regression and wonder week

She's definitely overtired a lot of the time. She woke twice last night after falling asleep at 7.40 (11.15 and 4.30). She then woke at 7.00 and I thought I spotted some tired signs before 8am (barely 1hr A) but I've been doing way longer than that so I have NO idea. She does pull some massive catch up naps so I know she can join sleep cycles together (in her cot) I just need her to do it consistently which is just crazy.

Whenever I go into her room for wind down (close curtains, put music and fan on, into swaddle, and a cuddle and rock in my arms. She's usually gone from happy and no tired signs to crying when we enter her room and she doesn't calm with cuddles so she usually goes down crying even with shush/pat. No idea how to change this....

[labrodyk]

Scariest thing happened tonight. She's had four 30-40minute naps in the car, pram and cot today. Her last 30min nap ended at 4.35 so I aimed for a 6pm bedtime. She was upset for about 10-15minutes but then fell silent and lay quietly for half an hour, only to scare me to death by falling asleep with her eyes wide OPEN at 6.45! I ran in to check on her and thankfully she was breathing but didn't acknowledge me at all.

Is it likely she was OT or UT at bedtime?! As I said, I totally can't work out the A times are all.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Oh my word!! That would be scary! I would guess ot if she only had short naps all day. Urgh yes the 4 month regression can be a doozy but then if her sleep has gone to pot now maybe it will be better for her (reverse psychology right?!). My DD3 did start napping better at that age but then the nw's got more frequent!

Oh and my DD2 always cried before sleep - honestly it was like a release for her and she could not relax before having a cry (was actually mantra cry but loud!).