Go to sleep Greyson!!

[greysonsmummy]

I'm writing this eyes half closed and feeling out of idea's. My 15 month old has never once slept through the night, we may have been lucky for maybe 2 nights and maybe 6 hours broken but now we're lucky to get 2 hours and it's getting worse!! Bedtime used to be at 8pm now we're lucky if he is asleep by 11pm and he only sleeps maybe 1hr 30!! By 12 we are up again, he screams sometimes for an hour, some times for 2!! He wont settle in his cot, wont settle in with us and generally starting to drive me round the bend. I have a 5 year old that thank god sleeps through all this, but my partner who works is also starting to lag. I know it maybe teething, but during the day he naps as normal and show's no sign of being in pain and is generally happy. I'm at a loss with what to do so any idea's would be great. He has never settled in his cot to sleep, usually it's sofa till he goes off then a quick transfer to cot for an hour before d-day!!! He has a good appetite during the day and has a 3 course dinner followed by 7oz an hour later before bed but he still takes 2 bottles during the night otherwise he wont settle. I think i'm doing something really wrong and I'm not sure how to correct it. I've got so lax now with trying everything that i shouldn't to get him to sleep and settle that i think i have made it worse.

[jessmum46]

Hugs, you must all be exhausted.  It's so hard when you're in the middle of it to think clearly and sort out a plan, so hopefully that's something we can help with . It sounds to me like a combination of not being used to settling in bed alone and needing a bit more of a structured routine to combat some over tiredness, but hopefully with a bit of work things will get a lot better.

Can you tell me has he ever fallen asleep on his own?  Or is it always with a bottle/on the sofa?  Have you ever tried any sleep training with him?

What's a typical day for him in terms of WU time, nap (time and how long) and bedtime (when you start and when he sleeps)?

Look forward to your reply

[becj86]

Hi, welcome to BW

Can you write out his day - naps, etc.?

Does he nap in his cot?

Any medical issues? This sounds like there's some pain or something involved, even a child who has lots of props will generally sleep for a period of time and a very OT child (which I'm sure your LO is!) will crash at some point and sleep.

[greysonsmummy]

Hi, welcome to BW

Can you write out his day - naps, etc.?

Does he nap in his cot?

Any medical issues? This sounds like there's some pain or something involved, even a child who has lots of props will generally sleep for a period of time and a very OT child (which I'm sure your LO is!) will crash at some point and sleep.

Well today is a early sleep day due to being up half the night but usually it's...

7am - wake up and bottle
7-10/12 - play time, walk
10-12 - sometime between these two times he will nap for an hour (usually sofa or pram as out and about and wont settle in cot)
12.30 - lunch (usually sandwich)
1-3 - play/walk to school
4pm - usually another hour nap
5pm - Dinner time
7 - bath time, books, lights down
7.30 - Milk 7oz
8pm - 11pm - trying to settle for sleep. He has fallen asleep twice in his cot at bedtime but usually awake within an hour.
12.30am - screaming, trying to settle without milk but usually have to give in. Put him back in cot but up and down to crying until I give in and get up.

Has trouble poohing sometimes, he is on lactulose and movicol on and off when he struggles. He seems to be fine during the day it's just once he falls asleep for night time he starts. I haven't done any sleep training yet as he gets so upset and I worry about my 5 year old sleeping. He is generally a really happy baby especially during the day, we thought now he is getting himself mobile that he would be so tired he would want to sleep...I was wrong.

[becj86]

So he is sleeping from when til 7am?

When he's screaming, does he know you're there? Just wondering if you're waking him from night terrors?

Generally, most children are having one nap by this age, I'd say maybe having one nap around 12:30 or 1pm would be better for him, he might take a longer nap (therefore restorative) and I'd have BT earlier just initially as he seems to be OT at BT which is what causes those wakings within the first 3hr after BT. Definitely I'd not be allowing a nap at 10am, 11:30 at the absolute earliest...

I think its probably worth getting a reasonable nap at a reasonable time before trying much in the way of sleep training, its much easier to ST when LO is properly tired without being so OT. It would be worth trying some calm activity time in the cot though, to help improve his response to the cot if he's getting upset whenever he goes in there - you'd be in the room, reading him a story, singing, doing something he likes so he's in the cot and feeling happy and calm.

[Katet]

I've got so lax now with trying everything that i shouldn't to get him to sleep and settle that i think i have made it worse.

In a way yes because if you try too much it means there is no consistency & they don't understand what is happening. He may only be 15mo but I've heard it done as young as that... practice a bedtime routine with a soft toy set up the toy in a place & follow the same routine you will for your child. Then STICK to it.

So for 15mo I'd be working towards one nap - I did have a DS1 who was still on 2 naps at 20mo, but he was unusual & was also to a degree necessary because of my work hours until that point.  But I'd be looking at trying to get to that one longer nap. Work out the times that work best (allowing for around 14 hours of sleep if I remember correctly, so really about 9 hours of activity allowing for 30mins kind of wind down time.

Also have yourself a little card with a set phrase on it to say to him & a note to yourself "I can get this to work" & then how I'd do it is "bed time routine" (as you've planned out with the soft toy) & then into the cot - maybe even sit him in the cot & sit next to him & read a story like "good night Moon" then if it is too hard for you first up do  a modified Pu/pd something like if he stands up lean over, give him a cuddle & say "good night" & try to lay him down if he doesn't go down easily, give him another cuddle & tell him good night... keep repeating the same thing. maybe give him a drink of water if he is crying, but keep at it. When he wakes repeat the same thing... don't offer milk until you've got him to sleep at least twice early in the night & when you do offer it water it down a bit & give less so he gets rid of the hunger at night too.

[trimbler]

Hey there, just moving this to toddler sleep as he's over a year already

[weaver]

If it were me, I would just drop that second nap cold and see what happens. I guess your BT will become much earlier and easier. At the same time gently encourage the first nap to come around 11.30 or later if you manage.

[KatyBee]

Just wanted to agree with the suggestions for starting with adressing the napping situtation and moving to one nap closer to lunchtime. Doing this solved so many of our sleep issues around that age and also then starting to get my son to fall asleep independently at bedtime - which as someone said is so much easier when your baby is *just* the right amount of tired (not OT or UT) and adjusting the nap was the secret to this for us.

Your son sounds exactly like my best friend's baby though and she has had to seek advice from dietitians, osteopaths etc because at 16/17 months has still never done much longer than a couple of hours sleep undisturbed and can't get anywhere close to sleeping independently. She has just been in survival mode really and done whatever she had to get by - but it is SO tough. I really don't envy your struggles and I hope you find something that works.