"Mummy I'm tired" - 2yr4mo says this all the time

[KatyBee]

We are struggling with the 1-0 transition and I literally have no idea how to get my son on any kind of consistent track.

He is fairly LSN and dropped the daily nap naturally 6 weeks ago, but since then has still needed a catnap every so often (and quite a lot over Christmas) but we are just in a mess now.

When he consistently napped he mostly slept through the night but only did 10 hours (+ 20/30min nap) and when he dropped the nap he was doing 11-12 hours overnight but nightwakings increased.

What is happening now is that on the days he doesn't nap, we get lots of nightwakings and sometimes they last for up to 1.5 hours..... although his total sleep is usually still 11hrs or more.

If he does take a 20/30 min nap, his days get really long (>14hours) and he needs ages to wind down for bed, the nightwakings aren't so bad (although he is still waking) and then we get a short night... last night he only slept 8:30pm-6am.

The worse thing is that he is constantly telling me he is tired, even just after waking up in the morning. I really don't know what to do for the best? His LSN make it so much worse as he has to be really tired to fall asleep, so naps cause havoc - but it feels like he needs it?!

I wondered what others would suggest?

[Shiv52]

I found at this age I just had to go cold turkey on the nap as it just caused too much trouble.

What's going on with the NWs?  Does he resettle himself?  Does he go to sleep independently at bedtime?

[Jodes112]

The 1-0 is really difficult and you get caught in what you described for a while!

I agree with shiv that you would be best just to go for it cold turkey & let him settle into a new routine. EBT were our saviour, dd once went to bed at 5.50pm!! But is neccessary to combat OT.

What time is wake up & bed time on days with no nap? X

[KatyBee]

Thanks so much for your responses ladies, I realise that this is a common issue during this transition, its just so frustrating.

Cold turkey was definitely my plan but we are in a vicious cycle at the moment as he is so tired from the short and/or disturbed nights that he crashes in the car and because he is now back at nursery 3 mornings a week, it is impossible to avoid! (However when he dropped the nap he was sleeping so much longer at night that he managed the car journeys no problem, so I know that he can do it when well rested)

Again, just like yesterday, he just fell asleep for 20 mins on drive home.... and he has never gone to bed in less than 7 hours from a nap, so we are looking at another long day and overtired rubbish sleep.

I have no issue using SUPER early bedtimes (did 5pm recently) - but even 5 minutes of sleep in the day throws that option out of the window.

He is still breastfed to sleep most nights, but can fall asleep independently no problems and was STTN with no issues until very recently.

NWs he just screams and screams for me and then either settles as soon as I lie down next to him if it is early in the night, or on one of the long ones (which tend to be 4am onwards) just tosses and turns next to me or asks to get up, but listens when I say it's time to sleep and tries but can't.

He asked for a feed at 4am a couple of days ago, which is very unusual (hasn't had nightfeeds for a very long time).... and he went back to sleep after feeding, so I guess was either teething or hungry? So maybe there is more to this than just the transition?

[Jodes112]

Its possibly a growth spurt/development stage which could be why he is asking for food. But generally at that age they shouldnt be waking in the night hungry. Does he eat well in the day? You are possibly risking a prop when feeding to sleep so i would try if you can, to avoid it.

It sounds like the Disturbed night is because he is so OT. So his bedtime, with any nap length is around 8.30pm? Have you tried one big catch up nap every few days?

For a while dd would nap every couple of days because ot has caught up with her. This then went to around once a week & then nothing. What was his bt yesterday & wu, any nap yesterday? X

[athenasmom]

Is it possible that he is thirsty rather than hungry? My kids both need drinks during the night. DS is 8 now so I just leave a bottle of water next to his bed. But DD is 18 months and when she asks for a drink I hand her the sippy with water and she drinks then she throws it away, rolls over and goes back to sleep. DS always had a sippy in his bed at that age too. He was able to get it, drink form it then go back to sleep on his own without any help. I am hoping DD will get there soon too. 

BTW I think that when he has a catnap you might feel that it was a sufficient nap so you try to adjust his BT later but any nap under 20 min really does not count much so I would say he is OT by BT hence the struggle to fall asleep. 

[KatyBee]

Thanks Jodes... if he takes a long 40 mins nap (which is as long as they get!) which he's done a couple of times recently, it's a total disaster! Bedtime is then 10 or 11pm and he'll only sleep 8-9 hours overnight. I swore off them last time we tried it just before Christmas, I just don't think that kind of OT catch up works for him - he needs a long overnight sleep!

This was yesterday anyway;

W/u 6am
Nap 12:10-12:30pm
BT 7:15pm (it's usually +7hrs from a nap so this tells me OT is catching up)

NW shouted out at 10:15pm resettled himself
NW 1:30am for about 40 mins

W/u today 6am
So roughly a 10 hour night - not great & was still telling me he was tired over breakfast :/

Today he hasn't napped and I'll be doing bedtime at 5:45/6pm.... Will be another early start tomorrow though & he has nursery in the morning so doing a NND tomorrow might be challenging! But I need to try and get back on track. Even if he wakes tonight I know he'll sleep longer overall.

[KatyBee]

Is it possible that he is thirsty rather than hungry? ............. He was able to get it, drink form it then go back to sleep on his own without any help. I am hoping DD will get there soon too. 

Hi athenasmom - thanks for the suggestion. He does have a beaker in his room (although he sleeps in pitch dark so no way he;d find it by homeself! ) and he'll ask me for it if he's thirsty or i'll offer it if he doesnt resettle quickly. He very rarely ask/accepts it, so I don;t think it is thirst to be honest. He often takes a while to drink something in the morning too - which I would not expect if he was thirsty in the night.

BTW I think that when he has a catnap you might feel that it was a sufficient nap so you try to adjust his BT later but any nap under 20 min really does not count much so I would say he is OT by BT hence the struggle to fall asleep. 

Hehe... if only it was that simple. I don't adjust anything, my LSN little one totally dictates bedtimes.... he wont go to sleep a second before he's ready to, so I tried sticking to a fixed BT for a while and it was incredibly frustrating and upsetting for the whole family. We learnt the hard way that even after a tiny catnap he needs hours to wind down before sleeping again, so now we just roll with it. This is why i'm desperate for him to drop it completely as it really does mess everything up - the OT/UT cycle sucks!!

[Jodes112]

What does he do in the nw? What does he say he wants? Or is he just crying? Does sound ot 😬

When you actually put him to bed at 7.15 yesterday, did he fall straight to sleep with little fuss? X

[KatyBee]

Woohoo! No nap yesterday & I put him down early, he was asleep by 5:50pm and he woke up at 6:20am this morning. That's his longest night EVER! No NWs either I'm hoping that after such a long catch up sleep that he manage the nursery journey in the car too today and we can do anothe NND.

The nap has to go!!!!

[KatyBee]

What does he do in the nw? What does he say he wants? Or is he just crying? Does sound ot 😬

Thanks Jodes - no he's rarely upset once I'm in the room. He either goes straight back to sleep once I'm there or he just tosses & turns, wants to chat or get up. So I do think it's a weird mix of OT/UT caused by the catnap. OT as his day is too long & bedtime too late and UT as he nap means he's not tired enough to stay asleep.

He's always slept better when his bedtime is before 7pm and that's impossible with any kind of nap. So I just need to capitalise on last night & try and prevent car naps

[Jodes112]

Great night, good luck!
Im hoping he will settle into a nice no nap routine for u... Fingers crossed! Sometimes it can take time to settle in x

[KatyBee]

Thanks Jodes.... i'm just as confused today though and although I still feel things are better without the nap - bedtime and wake up are getting earlier and earlier  and I don't know how to escape that trap?

Last night he was alseep by 6pm. He shouted out at 8pm but resettled himself and then woke calling for me at approx 9:30pm. He was awake and wanted me to stay with him, which I did. He just yawned and yawned and fidgeted and kept dozing off but not into a deep enough sleep that I could leave - he'd wake every time I moved (I eventually fell asleep in there with him) - so I presume he was overtired?

He woke for the day at around 5:45am this morning - so I think overall he got 11 hours sleep, which is better than days with nap but means our schedule will just get earlier and earlier!

Obviously with no nap today bedtime will be super early  but unless we fall back into the odd nap scenario, which messes things up, then I guess we just persevere with the cold turkey approach and accept some really early waking?

[Shiv52]

Given it was such an early wake I would try and get a short nap at lunch to get him to a proper bedtime or even a later bedtime.  I tended to set bedtime and just got through best I could and didn't do bed any more than 20/30 minutes earlier.

[KatyBee]

Given it was such an early wake I would try and get a short nap at lunch to get him to a proper bedtime or even a later bedtime.

Thanks Shiv, I have been doing just that during the 1-0 transition so far but this just doesn't work for us anymore if i give ANY nap at all then he will then only do a 10 hour night or less, so even if I can push bedtime to 7 or 8pm then we're are up again at 5/6am and the overtired cycle continues. At least he generally sleeps 11 or more hours with NNDs - even with the NWs.

In the end we did another NND yesterday I put him down at 6pm last night and he slept through until 4:15am and then was awake until 5:45am - which wasn't much fun. But he then slept until 7:30am so I was able to do a NND today.

I really, really don't know what is best to do longer term though. Keep the cold turkey going and stick to NNDs but accept the long NWs until he naturally grows out of it? When I start doing the odd nap here and there he gets far more tired during the days and isn't anywhere near as cheerful.... he copes with the NNDs really well - it just gives disturbed nights.