Author Topic: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!  (Read 2201 times)

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Offline BeeGuiles

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Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« on: January 06, 2016, 17:28:05 pm »
Hello, I have posted before asking for help on sleep...I got good advice but seems like things are just getting worse and worse. My LO is turning 16 weeks this saturday. When he was 2 months he was sleeping pretty good through the night only waking a couple times to eat, his naps were decent, then as he turned three months his naps changed to 30 mins for every nap unless I hold and nurse him the whole time and night sleep deteriorated. He was waking every 2 hours, then every 1 hour, then every 30-40 mins, now its basically every 1-2 hours again. He tries to stay asleep but he just ends up waking up and I have to put him back to sleep which can take up to an hour sometimes. He still only sleeps in his swing, I have tried to co sleep with him but still the same thing happens. His WU and BT are all over the place bc of all this. But generally he wakes up between 6-7 (used to be 7) and I try to get him to bed around 7-8 but he wakes up 30 mins later and stays up another A time, ends up having a meltdown and then goes to sleep for maybe 2-3 hours. After that he wakes up more frequently the rest of the night. I try not to always nurse him to sleep when he wakes, I try to rock him or pat his back but it doesnt always work. He will nurse to sleep but when trying to put him back in the swing sometimes he stays asleep, sometimes not, this process of getting him back to sleep can take 30-60 mins each time, sometimes less.  Usually what I do is when he starts to stir, he rubs his head like crazy and so I gently hold his hands and wait till he settles back into a deep enough sleep where I can let go but it doesnt always work and when it doesnt and its been 2 hours or so I nurse him. I know he is going through a lot right now. Do I just go with it all and tough it out and it will sort itself out on it's own? Oh and his A time is about 1hr 30mins, I read it should be 2 hours at this age? But he seems to be tired and irritable before 2 hours. For naps I have to hold him and nurse him the whole time to get good naps, even holding him he will wake at the 30 min mark and I give him the breast to get him through, he will take a 1 hour nap, sometimes 1.5 hours. I really don't have an EASY bc Ive been so frustrated I just stopped keeping track and just going with the flow, living in the moment rather than stressing out about keeping a schedule all day. But I can try and put up what our day looks like..

6:00-7:00 wake up, eat
8:30is -9:30ish nap/nurse
11ish-12ish  nap/nurse
1:30-2:30ish nap/nurse
4-5ish nap nurse
6:00 start bedtime routine, try to be in bed by 6;30-7...

this is a very rough example bc his naps vary in length and his wu and bt is always different..I try to keep it a 12 hour day and night but thing is lots of times he wakes up after bedtime 30 mins later and treats it as a nap and then ends up going to bed 8:30-9pm and he still wakes up at 6-7 am ,I think he treats that first morning nap as nighttime sleep but after a long night of NW I let him just get up at 6 or 7 bc he doesnt seem to want to go back to sleep anyways.

Any advice I would so appreciate. If I left anything out let me know and if I repeated myself at all, I apologize, trying to type this out with my baby in my arms. TIA

Brittany

P.S. Today he is not evening making it to the 1.5 mark before becoming verrry irritable. nothing is soothing him except nursing to sleep...I don't think he is teething, I dont see or feel anything but he is very drooly and sooo whiney!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 18:28:52 pm by BeeGuiles »

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 20:15:53 pm »
Hi Brittany, sorry for the delayed reply, we're a bit busy atm!

This sounds like the 4mo SR. Have you heard of it?

So does he sleep in his swing at night time too?

Yes ideally they should be on closer to 2hrs A at this age but that's not for all bubbas. We have to watch for the signs and try and gauge what works for them given their naps and night sleep.
Waking 30mins after BT I would definitely say that's OT. I would work on reducing that last A by adding more A time before the other two naps if you can. 1.5-2hrs A after a shorter nap might be just that tad too much.

Could you add on 15misn onto the other two A times for me, even 10misn would help I think. Also, could you pst what yesterday looked like in real time for me so I get an idea as to what's going on thanks xx



Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2016, 15:52:41 pm »
Hello, Yes I have heard of the 4 mo sleep regression. This has been going on now since 3 months though. Sometimes he will sleep for 5 hours then be up every 30-60 mins from that point on. Is that typical for the 4 month regression?

He does sleep in the swing at night. I can not for the life of me get him to sleep in anything else besides the swing or my arms. Even him nursing to sleep in the bed and co sleeping he doesn't stay asleep. He still needs the motion I guess. Bc when I hold him I am also gliding in the glider.

Each day is so different with A times and naps. It seems like no matter how hard I try nothing is consistent.. I kept a log of his nap times yesterday so I can post those and in between obviously is his A time. The day before yesterday he coudln't stay up more than about an hour and 10-15 mins, then yesterday he would stay up for about an hr and a half.. idk why everyday is different. Maybe bc of differing amount of sleeping time.

Here is yesterdays naps.

5:50am woke up
Nap in car with daddy 7:50-8:20am ( he took him bc I needed to get some sleep and a break)
nurse and nap 9:30-11:00
awake 11-12:40
nurse nap 12:40ish-1:30pm
awake1:30-3:13pm
3:13-3:50 nap and nurse
awake 3:50- 5:30
nap and nurse 5:30-6:00

after that I forgot to write down what time he went to bed but I think it was around 9-9:30 bc he just would not go to sleep. I nursed him to sleep and he woke up after ten mins and would not sleep. Every night he is doing this now. He goes to sleep and wakes 10 mins later, I think it is from gas, so I help him work it out but he still does not want to sleep and cries and fights it so I let him stay up and try again later until he finally goes to sleep so I know he is not getting the proper amount of sleep at night bc every night he has a late bedtime (even tho I start the bedtime routine an hour after his last  nap and the routine has been the same for a couple months) I start the bedtime routine sooner if he is acting tired or later if he is not acting very tired. Just go by what he looks and acts like basically.

So he went to bed around 9 or 9:30 last night and woke around 11:45, ate, I could not get a burp bc he fell asleep, then he slept I think until 4, took some time to get him back to bed again, like an hour. He was sleeping but took an hour before I could put him in the swing without waking. Then from 5-7:15 he would wake every 30 mins and need assistance back to sleep(gently held hands until he stopped moving around)

Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 16:28:56 pm »
Oh I forgot to say that the swing is the type that can sit up and recline laying back, so he isn't sitting up when he sleeps in it. He is almost all the way flat.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2016, 20:18:07 pm »
Yes that is typical for the regression but I'd expect for it to be over with now considering it's being on so long. So onto plan 2...  ;)

Ok, so he's not what we'd consider an independent sleeper really is he? Is that something you'd like to work on? I do think that's contributing to the NW's considerably.

If we get the A time right, I think we can encourage independent sleep, but it will take some time and effort on your part. I'm here to hold your hand. It won't be long until he can roll out of his swing and ideally we don't want the motion to continue being a prop for him in the months to come. How do you feel about trying the first nap of the day in his own bed if he has one? Just the first nap for now? Then in a couple of days we can try another one until finally we get to BT. I believe she routine is out of whack by the time you hit BT hence why he's so difficult to settle. Once we get the rest of the day on track I think it'll be easier to settle at night. Wdyt? Dyt you can try just that first nap for me for now?

One thing I have to say is that the A times are too low for his age. He may show you sleepy cues but they can become unreliable as they get a bit older so we have to keep one eye on the clock too.

What I'm unsure of atm is what length of first A to go with. The standard is 2-2.5hrs but as that first nap was in the car on the routine you posted, I'm not too sure if that would have yielded a longer nap if he weren't in the car yk?

I might try 2hrs 15mins A. So go into his room (or yours if the bed is set up there) and establish a wind down routine. Even if it's just a nappy change, song, cuddle and straight into bed at 2hrs 10mins. Then I would use ssh/pat to calm him if he gets upset. I'll post some links for you to have a read through. All of this will take some effort as he may prefer just a hand on him rather than a pat, or even a longer wind down routine. But you'll best gauge this as time goes on. Wdyt? Xx

Eta have you introduced a lovey at all? Now would be a good time to do so if we're switching up his bed. I'm a big fan of a lovey. If you carry it around you and make it smell like you too, it will help him in the night time x

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Shush-pat - How to
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 20:22:23 pm by Kellyjs »



Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2016, 22:23:36 pm »
No he's not an independent sleeper. He has needed me to get him to sleep since day one and I have tried to get him to fall asleep on his own but he just doesn't. I lay him down drowsy but awake and he just cries. :( He gets so worked up about it..

So even though he yawns, rubs his eyes and gets irritable after only 1.5 hours or so I should keep him awake 2-2.5 hours? Wouldn't that just make him OT? I think he gets sleepy so quick bc of poor night time sleep or not enough sleep at night.

I am just so nervous to try and get him to nap on his own bc he has only ever napped in my arms or the swing and putting him in a stationary bed is so forgein to him, last time I tried he screamed and screamed until I picked him up and as soon as I put him down he screams again. Not like a whine or fuss, like a constant emotional cry. It doesn't sound like a protest cry to me. So I just have been letting him sleep however I can get him to sleep but yes I do agree he is going to be rolling soon and I do not want him to fall out of the swing..

I have a little monkey thing he seems to like and I try to give it to him when he is in the swing for nap. He holds it for a moment but doesn't seem to care much but I will continue with it.

If I try with the first nap and he gets very upset, how long do I try to get him to sleep in his bed until I give up and just nurse him to sleep and hold him like I normally do? I don't want to spend forever fighting with him to sleep in his bed and make him miss out on a nap and then get him OT and really cranky.. Do I try for a certain amount of time? If he gets very upset do I pick him up and calm him down. Even if I have a hand on him or pat him while he is laying down he gets upset about it. He doesn't like to be on his tummy either or his back lol, he just plain doesn't like to sleep unless he is snuggled in my arms with his milk :/ I would like for him to be an independent sleeper but I was thinking he just is not ready for it yet and he will learn to sleep on his own in time? Some say that is true while others say you have to teach them, so I have no idea really. I just want him to get some sleep so I do whatever I can to help him get the sleep he really needs.

Thank you also for your help and being here for support/answering all my questions! :)


Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2016, 23:03:37 pm »
I just read the shh/pat, one more question, he doesn't like to be swaddled. Do I have to swaddle him? I guess I could try it and see what he does but ik he hates to have his arms constrained. Can I use a white noise app instead of my shushing? He uses the white noise app tight now to help him fall to sleep and I actually have it on all night long, even tho it doesn't keep him asleep but if I were to turn it off he would wake up.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 08:53:51 am »
I would try and get as close to the 2hrs as you can. the problem is that this is a sticky situation because the night sleep won't necessarily improve until the naps are better. Definitely try closer to 2hrs than 2.5 at this stage and we'll see how that works.

no you don't need to swaddle at this age now. You can also use white noise, but your presence and your words will help soothe him too.

I'd give it 30 mins before you give up. Even then i might take him out of the room, walk around with him for 10 mins, then try again if you can?

it will be tough for a little while as you're changing the way he's always been taught to go to sleep, but it will get better. Many people have more success with the first nap of the day hence why i suggested that one first. It's totally up to you if you decide to sleep train. it does involve som crying because as I mentioned you're moving the goal posts on him. The diffence with our methods is that you're there with them so they won't feel abandoned compared to some other methods. Personally, i don't feel that they learn to sleep on their own unless you do something about it. they only learn what we teach them. If that's they do to sleep on the breast, then naturally when they wake up from a sleep cycle they will wonder where you have gone if laid down. During the night has the same thing too. Let me know what you'd like to do and we'll take it from there  :) xx



Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 13:54:14 pm »
Thank you :) the night before last we got him to two hours for the last A time before bed fine and he went to bed good and slept pretty good that night. So yesterday I tried having the A time 2 hours or closer to 2 hours and when it cane nap time he slept very restlessly, he was still in my arms nursing for the naps. So I'm thinking it was too long for him and he was too tired. So the second half of the day I got him to sleep for a nap after about 1.5 hours A time and he went to sleep faster and more easily and slept better.. But he was up every 2 hours or less again last night vs the night before he slept much better, by better I mean maybe three or four hours at a time. He stirred s couple times and didn't really need me to get him to sleep, woke twice to eat. I gradually increase the A time? We are at 1.5 hr now seems what he is good with. Should I add ten mins or so each A time or add ten mins for one day then ten more mins the next day? Not sure how to go about it. We do have to get him to sleep somewhere other than that ... My hubby agrees. When I am ready I'm gonna try what you said I think and see how it goes. One thing is,  my house is pretty bright with natural lighting BC of a lot of windows and my room I'd a loft so I have no way of blocking out the light to make the room dark and that is where he sleeps. I don't want him to sleep in another room so I'm concerned that the light will not help him to sleep but he does sleep there in my arms now, so idk.

Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2016, 16:24:25 pm »
I tried for the first nap today and it was a fail :( I modified it to how I think it might work for him but it didn't seem to work out.. After about 1.5 hours or 1 hr 45 (when he showed he was clearly tired) I brought him to the bedroom, walked around patted his back with the soft music on for a little bit to calm him down, then I decided to nurse him to get him a little more relaxed and sleepy, the plan was after he was more sleepy to then place him in the cot and do the sh/pat. Put him in the cot and he cried. Gave him a pacifier to calm him down a bit, gave him lovey. Those things didn't matter, he kept crying. I kept up the sh/pat but he kept crying badly, I picked him up and calmed him and laid him back down and the same thing happened, picked him up (took a little bit for him to calm down) this time he started to close his eyes while I was holing him so I laid him down in the cot but kept him in my arm and patted his back then gently took my arm away, kept patting for ten mins, he was sleeping (he had the pacifier) after 10-15 mins he woke up and cried, tried to pat back to sleep, didn't work. Picked up and again he fell asleep in the arms just about, laid him down still in my arm and patting back he was opening and closing his eyes so he knew where he was, he finally closed the eyes and so I took my arm away gently and kept patting but again after a little bit he woke up crying again...this all took an hour and he still wasn't sleeping so I gave in and nursed him to sleep and held him for about an hour then he woke bc I was upset with myself and started to cry while holding him... I feel like I messed him up and he will never learn to sleep on his own. :(

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 19:45:51 pm »
You haven't messed up whatsoever, please remember that. this is a process and will take time. It sounds like you've done everything right hun  :-*. Tomorrow is always another day, repeat that to yourself. It's a pretty lonely time fighting with your bubba for them to get some sleep and you're trying everything you can. Thats what i'm here for, t support you from afar. I can only apologise for not being as prompt today as it is my birthday and been pretty hectic  ::).

I love your idea of a wind down routine,t hat sounds lovely. He is used to movement, so i'm not surprised he woke up so quickly. What did happen is that you got him to sleep! That's amazing. I wonder if we could look at a slightly softer approach for you for the time being? Have you heard  of Pantley's removal? I'll post a link for you. I don't have much experience with it, but it has worked for lots of people on here. I would still try for that first nap in bed tomorrow but with this slightly adapted method and using ssh/pat simultaneously. WDYT?

WRT A time, we do know he sleeps btter having longer A time in the day. Your routine wasn't very stable before, but if you feel you're generally working on 1.5hrs A, then what we do is increase by 15mins and hold for a few days. Do you think you could try that like you have been doing?

Honestly,  you're doing really well. Have a read of this link for me and let me know what you think. I'll be around more the rest of this week witout silly birthdays getting in the way  ;) xx

Gentle Removal Plan
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 19:47:39 pm by Kellyjs »



Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 20:56:54 pm »
Happy birthday! :) No need to apologize, you have your own life too. 

Yea the no movement and not being in my arms is what gets him. He wanted to sleep but he wants to sleep in my arms being rocked. Once he falls asleep on the breast I can usually remove the nipple and he will accept that and swallow his milk and snuggle up tighter to me but then once he gets thru that sleep cycle he needs to suck to keep on sleeping. So idk if the gentle  removal still applies here?

I don't feel like I accomplished anything bc he basically still fell asleep in my arms when I picked him up to calm him down. He wasn't in a deep sleep of course which is why he woke up 5-10 mins after being in the cot. I'm wondering if I should not have nursed him at all bc maybe he got frustrated that he was nursing a bit, falling asleep then I interrupted his comfort and put him in a flat stationary bed? Should I not even nurse him at all and just try to lay him down and shush/pat? Then PU/PD if he gets rlly upset again?

For A time, so  instead of 1.5 hours, do 1hr45mins for a few days? Today he is getting real tired at 1.5 hrs, prlly bc of crappy naps. He did last two hours for one A  time today bc we had to go out and do things, He didn't act very tired or fall asleep in the car. He is so strange, sometimes he wants to slee after an hour, sometimes 1.5 and sometimes 2...puzzles me..

also our bedtime routine involves a bath, its been like that for several weeks but his skin seems to be getting dried out, hubby thinks its the every night bath (we do oil him up also) so hubby doesnt want to do bath every night. i'm worried it will mess up bedtime more? My hubby says he doesn't think it will matter since he has trouble going to bed anyways.. I feel like bedtime improved the past two nights. Last night he woke an hr after bedtime, night before I think he slept a long stretch before waking. One thing I did change for bedtime is I made homemade gripe water. My little guy gulps air when he nurses sometimes and gets trapped gas bc he doesn't burp when he is sleepy or sleeping so when he stirs in the night, I think he fully wakes from tummy pains also so going back to sleep by himself rlly doesnt happen.. but I gave him the gripe water for two nights now, 1st night was great improvement. I even saw him stir but not wake all the way up. but last night he still woke a lot. Not every hour but every two hours. Thought I would mention that as a factor too.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2016, 08:17:00 am »
i'll pop back later as giving DD breakfast, but bath every night is ok, but some find not to use the bubble bath every night helps with the drying out of the skin. So just use warm water? I'm a big fan of a consistent BT routine, but many have found a bath every other day works well too.

Yes, i'd try 1hr 45mins especially for the first A. If the first nap is particularly rubbish, you could try 1.5hrs for the second one and see if he's easier to settle? We like to reduce the next A after a short nap slightly, but not by much as it could lead to what we call a UT/OT loop whereas they constantly go down for naps UT, but then get OT by the end of the day.

I think the idea with the gentle removal is to try and get him to sleep at least one sleep cycle in bed. So t is a gradual process of detaching him earlier and earier as the weeks go on. Unfortunately there's no quick fix, it just all takes time. But it will get better, i promise.  :) xx



Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2016, 10:19:33 am »
Okay :) its been a long night here. Its now 5am and I've been up since 2. He went to bed at 9 BC he wouldn't go to sleep for bed :( hes been sleeping the whole time but I've been up helping him thru every sleep cycle (every 30 mins)

anyways, yea we do just warm water for most baths but he still has dry skin. Might have to get better lotion or something.

hopefully he goes back to sleep here until 7 and we can get a fresh start today. :)

I see, so the point is to get him to not need to nurse in order to fall asleep with the gentle removal so O can get him to fall asleep in the bed. I feel like at night he still needs two feedings and he always falls asleep to those..

praying the first nap doesn't go so terribly today as it did yesterday.. Thank you so much for the support :)

Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2016, 14:11:53 pm »
This is how this mornings first nap went. He ended up waking up for the day at 6:25, so first nap was at 8:10. I went to take a shower and when I got out LO was upset and crying, it was ten mins before naptime so for wind down I was just calming him down, he didnt want to be carried and patted like normal so I nursed him to calm him till he was closing his eyes, burped him bc he had gulped air and tried to lay him down, he got very mad, crying, so picked him up to calm, he wouldnt calm so I nursed him for a few more mins till he closed his eyes then tried to lay him down again. Gave him the pacifier when I laid him down to keep him calm, this was at 8:12. He stayed there with his eyes closed and no crying! Had the white noise on too. I patted his back and kept a hand on him until 8:37 bc he was still moving a little bit, he was in light sleep. Took hands off and stopped patting at 37 and he stirred again at 45, so went back to pat and give back paci and he stopped moving until 55 and then he opened his eyes and woke up (I was still patting) but he didn't cry. He just looked around and was grabbing at his lovey... SO.. it went better. Is it normal for me to be patting or having a hand on him almost the whole time tho? He was only in a deeper sleep for about ten mins it seems.