Author Topic: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!  (Read 2197 times)

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Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2016, 16:29:09 pm »
We can definitely look at that later on. Ideally we don't want the patting to turn into a prop also. If he's not crying I might consider lessening the pressure slightly, or even stopping, see how he goes but keeping close by to resume it if needs be? This is honestly a great improvement. I'm just sorry the nights are rough atm. Did we check for teething as well?

For dry skin, aveeno is amazing. I think they prescribe it over the counter here for those with excema so you shouldn't have to use it often.

And yes, the idea is to gradually put him down more awake over the next couple of weeks. Are you up for trying that for another nap as well now? How are the other naps going in the meantime? An easy in realtime and how you settled for naps and BT will be great to keep a record of if you can? xx



Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 17:07:59 pm »
You're right I don't want the patting to become a prop but when I don't pat he wakes up and he does cry if I don't pat. If I put him down more awake right now he cries until I either pick him up (which he will even still cry when I am holding him) or until I nurse him almost to sleep. He does not seem to calm down in the cot at all right now.

I don't see any teeth but he drools a lot and puts everything in his mouth and I see him chewing on his pacifier also sometimes.

The second nap today wasn't very good, was about 45 mins as well and he was even in my arms nursing and it still was shorter than normal.. The A time before the 2nd nap was 1.5 hours bc the first one was so restless and short. He woke up cranky from the 2nd nap and he is going on an hour awake now and is seeming irritable and getting tired again. idk if I should put him down in 30 mins or do the 1hr45m this time...

I feel like if I try to make him nap in the cot for two naps he will become OT bc he doesnt get good sleep in there yet. What do you think? When would be a good time to try for the second nap? Should I wait until he is able to take a good nap in there for his first nap?


Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 17:10:50 pm »
Yes I am trying to write down the duration of the naps/times and how I settled. I can keep better track now again I think. I kind of ditched keeping track of everything bc it overwhelmed me and discouraged me that everything was always messed up bc of his short naps etc. But I will try and keep a log of everything.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2016, 20:10:11 pm »
How did te rest of the day go? Would you mind posting it on here for me when you get him to sleep?

Let's concentrate on getting him to sleep in the cot. So, to recap we're using gentle removal where you nurse him until drowsy. You're then putting him into bed and using ssh/pat. this is all great so far. All these things we can look at reducing over time. We're just taking the softly softly approach. When you look back on this thread, you'll be amazed how far you've both come in a couple of weeks ok?

Short naps happen, we were plagued with them for 8mths until i found his site. Please don't worry too much about them. They didn't do my DD any harm in the long run. At least there's always the next nap to try for!

I still think that second A was too short. 45mins is definitely UT especially considering that's where he's used to sleeping so that tells us something too, all good stuff. I probably would consider trying 1hr 45mins now even after a cr@ppy first nap. wdyt? Remember he may get more OT as the day goes on so you could well try 1.5hrs A before the last nap.

Yes, let's crack this first nap first. I don't want to overwhelm you either  ;). We'll get there xx




Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2016, 13:46:25 pm »
Here is my EASY for yesterday and the NW as well.

6.25am wake up
E - 7ish am
A - 6.25-8.12
S - 8.12-8.55
E/S 10.25-11.10 (Nursed and napped in arms)
E - 11.45
A - 11.10-1.13
E/S - 1.13-2.40 (in arms again)
A - 2.40-4.25
E - 3.00-3.11
E/S - 4.27-5.12
A - 5.12 -
Bath at 6.12, pjs, oil from 6.27-6.42 also wind down
nursing from 6.42-7.00
7.00 asleep for bed, put in swing at 7.15
NW - 8.00, would not go back to sleep without nursing, back in swing at 9.00
10.30 stirring, needed help to settle down, held hands while in swing and he settled, never fully woke
NW - 11.40, crying, trapped gas, had trouble getting it out, nursed back to sleep, back to sleep by 12.55
NW - 3.35, cried, seemed hungry again, nursed, back to sleep in swing by 4, slept until 6am and woke up for the day

First nap today went okay. Woke up at 6, fed at 6.30, started to wind down around 7.40, nursed for a few mins, laid in cot and shush/pat for a few mins, by 7.55 hands were off him he was asleep with pacifier and white noise. Stayed sleeping until 8.28 and woke up, he couldn't get through the REM sleep. I did nurse him down again. He just will not settle in the cot. I have to nurse him for at least a few mins till eyes are closing then lay him in the cot again, he started to cry in the cot until I gave him the paci, then he let me roll him to his side and pat till he was sleeping and then I stopped, only patted a few mins vs I patted almost the whole time. There is progress but he still is not going to sleep on his or making it thru a sleep cycle. But he isnt in the swing or my arms...

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2016, 14:46:33 pm »
Yay!!! This is much better, dyt? Technically he is going to sleep in the cot, not on you. This is definitely heading in the right direction, well done  :)

I still think the A time might be a little short but if he will go back down it might be that we're close. I'd hold that first A at 2hrs again tomorrow and see what happens. It might be from the next day we add on another 10mins.

Lt me know how the rest of the day goes xx




Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2016, 16:05:44 pm »
The first A time was about an hour and 45 mins, do you mean increase it to 2 hours? He took a short nap and wouldn't go back down when he woke up, he never goes back down once he wakes unless I nurse him back to sleep. 

Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2016, 16:33:52 pm »
Yea he is sleeping in the cot even if its for a short time so that is good. Today I tried for the second nap and he slept in the cot for the second one also for 30 mins. Still had to nurse him almost all the way down though. I think the rest of the naps will have to be in my arms BC I don't want him to get OT by the end of the day. 

Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2016, 13:28:00 pm »
EASY for yesterday:

6.00 wake up
E 6.30
A 6-7.45
S 7.50ish - 8.28 (in his cot, nursed him until almost asleep, would not settle any other way)
E 8.47
A 8.28 - 10.00
S 10.17 - 10.49 (in his cot, same as above, he fought it a little more this time)
E 11.11
A 10.49 - 12.24
E/S (nursed to sleep and nap in arms) 12.24 -2.05
E (make sure he is full, was a short feed) 2.20ish
A 2.05 - 3.55
E/S (meant to have nap 5 - 10 mins sooner but a stomach cramp came on me suddenly and had to use the bathroom, yuck) 3.55-4.50 (nursed to sleep and held)
A 4.50-6.35
Bedtime routine 6.00 - 6.35
Tried to get him to go to bed right after bedtime routine but for some reason he fought going to bed, he nursed till he was full and was dozing off then he fought sleep and nothing would settle him, finally he comfort nursed to sleep and fell asleep at 7.10. I treid the A time before bed of 1h45m and he was fighting sleep so I quietly read a book with him thinking maybe he is UT, but even at the 2 hour mark he fought sleep and he was rubbing his eyes, yawning etc. He fell asleep at 2h20m mark and then he woke up about 30 mins later. Idk why bedtime was an issue...

NW 7.30ish, would not settle, had to nurse to sleep
NW 10.35-11.00 nursed to sleep
NW 11.40 (was not hungrry and he even fell back to sleep on his own for a few mins but woke up again, tried to settle but he wouldnt go back to sleep, nursed back to sleep, then it was 1.50..
2.30 stirred didnt wake turned up white noise
3.30 stirred didnt wake turned up the white noise
NW 4.50 nursed back to sleep
6.00 wake up and dad took for a ride to get coffees and he fell asleep from 6.30 - 7.40

Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2016, 15:08:44 pm »
Sorry for all the posts, just wanna make sure you are up to date on whats going on here. Todays first nap was a very short one. Still could not settle him without nursing. I brought him to the room at 9.16, went to walk around and pat his back to wind down and he kept whining and trying to suck my face so I nursed him a few mins then tried to lay him down, he started to doze off when patting but then woke and started to cry and not calm down so I picked up and patted and he still was crying and fussy, so nursed again for about three more mins, he was dozing off so laid him down with paci and patted and he fell asleep the rest of the way (was now 9.30) and woke up at 9.48, tried to pat back to sleep but he was just talking and wanting to play, tried to nurse to get him sleepy again but he was just awake, not gonna go back to sleep. Will try again for the next nap..

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2016, 18:43:52 pm »
It's really great to keep me posted, don't worry.  :)

Ok, so we know now that 1hr 45mins might be too much A before BT for him. Especially after a short nap. My DD always liked a shorter last A time too. Let's bring that one back to 1.5hrs ok? See, we're learning something new every day aren't we? It may be that after a day of shortish naps, he just prefers a shorter last A. All good.

What A time was that first nap on today?

What I can also see is that he took a great nap on you after 1.5hrs after two crappy naps. Hmmm, let me get some more eyes on this for you as well xx




Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2016, 18:57:00 pm »
1 hour and 45 mins before the first nap today. 7.40-9.25. First two naps today were rlly crappy. Less than 30 mins in the cot. The second one he did the same as the first, woke up after a short time and wouldn't settle in the cot, so I nursed and held him to get him to sleep longer and he slept an hour longer in my arms. I'm getting discouraged BC he isn't rlly learning independent sleep since he wont settle in the cot at all, I'm trying to nurse him for less time before putting him in there but if he isn't sleepy enough from nursing he just gets all upset and I have to nurse him some more before laying him down. Seems like I'm just nursing him yo sleep just about and then putting him down... I'm frustrated BC I want him to sleep good and I want to be able to do things like eat and have some time to myself in the day but its impossible right now. I'll do a shorter A time before bed and see what happens. I'm just confused BC he had a longer A time before for bed and it seemed to help get him to bed but then last night he fought it. I'm exhausted :( thank you so much for all your help also!!

Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2016, 02:28:00 am »
I have no idea why but he fought the last nap today, A time was 1.5 hour BC I knew he was already tired from crap earlier naps, he had to take a ride in the car to fall asleep and he MAJORLY fought BT. Should have been to bed by 7.30, 1.5 hr A time but he fought it until passing out around 9.15... He just kept screaming and Nothing would settle him, he wouldn't even nurse. I'm so beyond frustrated tonight and in tears :(

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2016, 08:16:08 am »
Hugs, just dropping in with some support and some extra thoughts.  It's a rubbish age for sleep, super-frustrating is just about standard I would say ::) but having btdt and really struggled first time round especially, I would say you must look after yourself :-* do you have help?  Are you getting any you time? 

For LO I'm not sure how much you've considered the possibility of discomfort?  (Sorry I haven't read everything back in detail).  Teething is less likely to cause issues for so long but you mentioned dry skin - how bad is it?  Could it be itchy and bothering LO?  What about (silent) reflux?  Particularly poor sleep and wanting to nurse a lot can be symptoms - Reflux 101 - General reflux information

If you are confident none of those are issues, then I think this may well be a sleep training issue and you may just need to change your approach slightly.  First of all (and please understand I'm not judging, I really get it :-* ) I notice you've said a few times how scared you are of OT.  Having helped lots of people through the forums and gone through it myself I think this is almost the biggest mental barrier to sleep training successfully.  What happens is when we get scared of OT we prioritise LO getting to sleep over how it happens - now there is totally a time and place for that, I will rock and cuddle my LOs or sit with them until they sleep when unwell for example, but when you are trying to change the way a LO goes to sleep then it is counter-productive as all you end up doing is teaching that 'if I protest long and hard enough nothing has to change'.  And that's not fair to you or LO. 

Second I think consistency and trying all naps the same way may actually help you now.  I totally agree with Kelly that starting with one nap and then making progress from there is often the way to go, particular with younger babies, but as they get older my feeling is more opportunities to learn is less confusing and you will likely see quicker results.  I would try for the two main naps of the day (I'm assuming you are on 3 naps?) in the same way in the cot, and then if it's all been horrible by all means AP a quick catnap in the late afternoon but crucially not by using the props you are trying to break - so not nursing to sleep.  I would do a walk in the pram or a car drive instead. 

I wonder whether it might help you to write out your plan for settling LO?  I know you've been going with gentle removal but I wonder whether you need to either (a) give yourself some clear steps for moving forwards with that or (b) go for a different technique all together e.g. PUPD.  Gentle removal can be good but the key is to keep moving forwards as it's easy not to when LO shows signs of protest.  You need to push a bit otherwise nothing changes if you see what I mean?  At this age I think nursing to very drowsy might be a step too far, it's not really independent sleep and the goal which I would be moving towards reasonably quickly is putting LO down in the cot fully awake.  Now I appreciate that's scary, and yes LO will get OT - but that's where a clear plan and the end goal really help.  It's impossible in the heat of the crying baby (and mummy) moment to make a clear-headed decision about what to do.  But having it written out in front of you can just give you that encouragement to keep going. 

Personally I haven't got experience with gentle removal for nursing and if I'm honest I'm probably more of a 'rip the bandage off' kind of person ;) so if you wanted to try a different tack altogether I'd be happy to help you with a PUPD plan.  It would likely involve more crying (obviously with you there throughout) but may yield results quicker.

Let me know your thoughts x

***Katherine***







Offline BeeGuiles

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Re: Up almost every 1-2hrs, help!
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2016, 13:22:54 pm »
Hi Jessmum, Thank you so much for your support and advice. My husband helps me as much as he can but really it does not help me feel much better. He just plays with Titus so I can take a shower, bath or eat or maybe sleep for an hour in the morning. No help with sleep for the baby besides an occasional car ride. He does the best he can tho.

I really don't think he is uncomfortable other than the trapped gas which I always try to get out and he wakes fully when that is the case and has a very hard time going back to sleep,so ik when that is the problem. The dry skin is always lotioned up before bed really good so I dont think that is it and I am pretty sure he doesnt have reflux but I will read the link just to be sure.

Yes I am afraid of OT bc he is so miserable when he is OT and so inconsolable.. He gets wired then crashes but crashes without sleep, he jst screams. My hubby and I tried for one night to just lay him down awake and be there with him, comfort him, but it was so awful and for two hours he SCREAMED. This really screamed to the point where his little body started hiccuping and trembling and it would startle him and throw him into another screaming fit. When I would pick him up or hubby would he would not calm down in our arms. Just keep screaming. Finally I picked him up and he passed out in my arms... so I am terrified of that happening again... He rlly just won't sleep at all without nursing, ik nursing to drowsy is a prop also :( This all just sucks and I am not dealing with it well at all. I had a huge meltdown last night and was crying for a long time.. and was up every hour last night. The LO woke fully twice to eat but all the other times he just needed a firm hand on his to get him to not wake up fully and get to deeper sleep again.. I just really doubt he will ever sleep without nursing and it makes me upset and feel like I will not be sleeping again for a long time :(