16 weeks - regression? A times? Really lost!

[josephfc]

Hello. I've had some advice regarding DD in the past and, although we still haven't really found a routine or eliminated short naps, she was general falling asleep on her own and sleeps through.

Christmastime was a challenge and we haven't fully got back on track with falling asleep on her own or finding a routine. But we still had two naps a day where she'd fall asleep on her won and she always does for bedtime.

For the last two days though she has really kicked off at nap time and has had to be rocked to sleep and needs much more soothing before she settles. I've had two occasions where she has fallen asleep on me, woken and cried as I laid her down but then she fell asleep. But other than that she just screams if I lay her down.

I really don't know if this is bad habits getting in the way of sleep or the dreaded 4m regression. I also still really have no idea what her a times are. She absolutely never gives one single signal until she's OT and then she's crying.

On top of all this she is eating less at each feeding. I'm pretty sure this is because I'm having to fed her early (2.5 hours) because of the short naps. She can easily go 3 hours, if not 3.5 if she gets a full feed and times don't clash with a nap.

I'm truly lost and need some advice on the following:

Regression or poor sleep habits?

How to keep up independent sleep if it's a regression (preventing AP).

What A time should be.

We don't have a great routine to show you. I usually have A time for about 1h30 (start WD 1h20) but often takes until 1h40-50 to settle. E 3-3.5 hours but if it clashes with a nap it will end up being 2.5 hours. Bedtime is about 1h-1h30 after the last nap. Usually 730-8.

Last night she woke from her last nap at 520 afyer a bad days napping so bedtime was 640. But she just hung out in her cot until 750 then went to sleep.

Please, I'd appreciate any help you can offer. I don't want to mess up our star sleeper because of a regression or because I can't tell when the poor thing is tired.

[creations]

Hi there
It looks like you are ready to move to the 4hr EASY.
In short you will increase her A time, she will (FX) then be happier to go down for a nap, go to sleep independently again and sleep for longer (a full nap), this means more time has passed before you feed her (might be 3.5hr to begin with then up to 4hr if she can manage that, some LOs don't manage to get to 4hr E just yet but that's ok).
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
She's probably ready to go up to 2hr A time for that first A, and besides she is resisting nap so much it is already taking you up to 1hr 50 A time. I suggest you don't begin WD until 1hr 40 ish, maybe even 1hr 50, she is less likely to 'kick off' at nap time.  Looks to me like she's trying to tell you she isn't ready for nap yet.
If she has a good first nap then I would also increase the second A time. If her first nap is short (say 40 mins) I would aim for around 1hr 40 to 1hr 50 A time, the idea is to reduce it a bit to take into account she is extra tired from that short nap but not to reduce so much that you are trying to put her to sleep UT (under tired).  If she kicks off I suggest saying "ok looks like you are not ready to sleep, let's try later" take her out of the room and do an activity for 10-15 mins then begin WD again.

I usually say to keep the last A time before BT a bit shorter just because often they are tired by then but it looks like she would be happy to aim for a 2hr A before BT too, based on what you've said.  You can judge this at the time.

This may help
Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY

WRT E times, the longer A and S times should help but otherwise try to track E separately for now.  Aim for 3.5hr E if that is when she is hungry and eats better.  There's a chance she doesn't need to eat at 2.5hr even if a nap is coming as she will sleep for up to 1.5hrs making this a 4hr interval between E, many are fine with this length between if they are asleep.  That said, your are her Mummy and if you feel she needs to eat then please feed her.  Just 1 min A time between feeding and sleeping will be ok to avoid a F2S prop, try not to worry too much about that at the moment.
Your routine might look something like this:
WU 7
E
A 2
S 9-10.30
E
A 2
S 12.30-2.00
E
A 2
S 4-5.30
E
A 2
E
BT 7.30

It really helps if you can record your EASY times whilst you are being supported so we can get a better idea of how things look.

hope this helps

[josephfc]

Wow thank you so much for the quick and detailed response!

i started tracking again today so will post it at the end of the day.

Thank you again!

[creations]

You're welcome.
I'm not around a great deal over this weekend (although probably will get on tomorrow) and it's my DS's birthday on Monday so if I am quiet for those couple of days don't worry, I will be back.
I think you have a good idea of what to aim for over the next few days anyway so just hang in there

[josephfc]

Happy birthday to your DS, I hope you have a great weekend!

Today was a disaster, complete write off so we'll work on it over the weekend and see where we are by Tuesday/Wednesday. Thanks

[creations]

Thank you

Sorry to hear today wasn't so good.
Try to record your times and a brief note about mood or what you did to try to resettle etc even on the bad days, it can often still be helpful as we try to work out what will suit your LO.

[josephfc]

Hello again. So the weekend and today hasn't been very good, a couple of small successes but generally lots of fails. We have had a night waking for the last 3 or 4 nights when previously she has been sleeping through. She also wakes much earlier than she should and this morning is the only time she has settled back to sleep Ayer the 630 wake up. Since she didn't sleep well in the night I didn't get her up until 8 and it's thrown the day out completely resulting in a disaster of a bedtime.

Im positing our days below, I hope you can understand the format. I use an app because I'm so terrible at remembering times and calculating the next feed/bedtime so this helps. forgive the frantic notes attached, I'm a bit compulsive in my tracking! Tonight she flat out refused a pre bedtime nap and ended up having a bedtime meltdown afer being awake  for nearly 3 hours. In general I'm rocking her to sleep because she just becomes hysterical as soon as we enter the bedroom for nap time. I'm really worried that she's becoming dependant on it when previously she would nod off so easily on her own.

She has been very fussy today (compared to normal anyway) and quite clingy. I'm hoping it's a regression and she will snap out of it soon but don't want to keep rocking her to sleep. where am I going wrong?!

I hope DS had a nice birthday!

[josephfc]

I can see this isn't easy to read. I'll repost the routine shortly.

[josephfc]

Fri
W&E 630
S 815-845
E 930
S 1030-1120
E 1220
S 1-145
E 320
S 345-430
Refused S at 610ish
E 630
7 attempted bedtime. Very OT, crying, rocked to sleep

Sat
420am NW (haven't had one since late December)
815 WU&E (only half of usual feed)
S 10-1045 (started WD 950, crying immediately, rocked to sleep)
E 1125
S 1220-105 (hysterical at being laid in cot. Went to sleep as soon as picked up)
We went out so napped in pram 245-320
E 340 (larger amount than usual)
S 505-555 rocked
E 705
S 745 (WD 725, laid in cot 735 no fussing)

420 NW. Fed because of fussing. Took full feed

Sun


WU 640, wouldn't resettle. Up at 730 and fed
S 825-910 (really fussy and unsettled leading up to it)
E 1050 (half usual amount)
Seemed really tired at 1015 so tried bedtime with routine but screamed through it. Gave up and fed at1050 and she fell asleep on the way back up to bed
S 1110-1150
E 115 (not very hungry)
S 210-207 managed to settle self after lots of crying. Woke up crying after 7 minutes had to pick up and rock back to sleep
S220-245
E 445
S 505-540 (cried as soon as routine started)
E 645
S 730 (fell asleep on own)

NW 420 fed

Mon
Wh 640 left in cot to resettle 715-755
E 820
S 950-1030 (tried at 925, not happy, walked and tried again. Finally rocked to sleep)
E 1145
S 1210-1204 woke up crying rocked back
S 1235-125
E 245
S 320-415 (went on own!)
E 535 2oz
Tried for nap 545-610 but wouldn't go (too awake not cryin)
E 635
S 655 rocked because very OT

[creations]

Hi
Looks like you're still rocking her to sleep at about 1hr 45 first A time and she's still reluctant to sleep.  The times on Monday it looks like you tried for a nap at 1hr 30 which is going to be too early.
I really think you need to try a 2hr first A time so she has a chance to be more tired.

4-6 months is a common period of short naps. The 4 month regression.  I often wonder though how many of us delay increasing the A times (as Tracy suggested in the 4th month) which perpetuates the short nap.  Mine had his 4 month regression from 3.5 months to 5.5 months...and I also had A times too short through that period.

[josephfc]

I think you're probably right. She just gets so fussy that I assume it must be sleep. I'll stick to my guns tomorrow and see what happens. Thank you!