Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

[becj86]

The afternoon nap I try to pull a bit earlier so she might sleep a little longer (and she usually does which is getting confusing with the 3hr A where she wakes after 1hr20 and is still tired shortly after getting up).

Ok, so given the nap is so short, you can reasonably shorten that A time as you have done and still expect a good long nap. The 1hr20nap from which she is waking still tired - you could push that A time a smidge longer and it might help, at the moment, the nap is perhaps not quite restorative but A is perhaps not quite tired enough to keep sleeping.

Have you tried an EBT of say 5/5:30 on those kindy days? It would be entirely reasonable for her to want to get up at 5am though, so you don't have to try it but its an option and you may find she tacks if the EBT is early enough. DS never tacked if it was "just" an hour early but 2hr early, he did.

[labrodyk]

Unfortunately now she's sick so this week is out the window - a cold but has totally thrown her! Almost asleep in my arms at 9am; have just put her down and she fell asleep in minutes at 9.15, slept until 10.33.
I'll try and nudge the 1hr20min naps but again, so unpredictable and she's beyond exhausted well before we reach the current A of 3hrs, she'll find any toy and just lay down on the ground, suck her thumb and start to fall asleep. That could be closer to 2hrs from last WU (especially in the morning).

I've been too scared to try 5/5.30 BT incase she a) thinks it's a nap and then wakes wanting 3hrs of A or b) wakes at 5am or earlier! it might be worth trying it though just to see.

Despite screaming and uncontrollably running rubbing her eyes whilst she tried to fall asleep on the lounge room floor at 1.00pm after a bottle she only slept an hour from 1.30-2.30. Would it be best to push to 6 for BT?!

Even after 3.5hr A to bed she lay sucking her thumb for over 20 minutes before falling asleep at 6.20, only to wake 40 minutes later crying. I didn't want to put her back to sleep completely so i stayed with her with my hand on her chest until she was calm. When she started playing and chatting to me I left the room and she lay there trying to get back to sleep for an hour! Finally asleep again at 8pm. With her cold she was very restless through the night, both kids difficulty breathing so she did well to sleep off and on until around 6.35, got her up at 7 and she's actually playing by herself this morning but not sure how long she's going to last.
Screamed and sobbed herself to sleep in my arms before 9am. Sick and snuffly, can't breathe properly. I tried to pop her down but I failed so she lay there for 20 minutes and dropped off again at 9.40am.

Her afternoon nap I put her down at 1.53 and she was asleep shortly after. Woke at 3.17 but she was dozing so I left her and she fell back to sleep until 4.03. Should I keep BT at 7, hoping she's asleep by 7.30?

[labrodyk]

and yet at bedtime (7pm) she cried and I had to go in and give her some reassurance and then left the room. She fell asleep by 7.30. Really hoping she doesn't wake after 40 minutes again.

[becj86]

Yes, I think a little extra reassurance is often required when LO is sick. I don't know how you do it with two who are sick at once.

The waking after 40min is usually OT but can also be illness.

Even after 3.5hr A to bed she lay sucking her thumb for over 20 minutes before falling asleep at 6.20, only to wake 40 minutes later crying.

I think in this case, its probably OT.

[labrodyk]

Yes, I think a little extra reassurance is often required when LO is sick. I don't know how you do it with two who are sick at once.

it's not very fun at the moment, that's for sure!!

I'm trying to keep an eye on the A times and her cues but with sickness she's all over the place. I'm really not good with 6am wake ups but I can't seem to get past them. When I push to 10am nap (which is 4 hours from WU) she is so tired and then come kindy days she's asleep in the car at 8.30am. It's making things really hard
ive been getting her OOB at 7.00 but this then means she's been awake for at least an hour so by 9am she's cranky.

[becj86]

I guess you have to decide what you'd prefer - 6am to 7pm or 7am to 8pm. She's really past that age at which a 12hr night is a reasonable expectation.

[labrodyk]

that makes sense... however, how do I do that when she isn't napping long enough to make it a 13hr day/11hr night? She had 40-60 minutes until 2.45; BT at 5.45 and she's woken crying 30 minutes later!! I can't go on like this. Her A times are shrinking and the bags under her eyes are getting darker by the day. I understand she's unwell so we're just taking things easy at the moment but she's just all over the place! it was the BIGGEST struggle to get to the nap times we did today and they weren't even 3 hours! she nuzzles her head into me and cries and cries, I change activity, she perks up but she keeps rubbing her eyes, yawning and basically acting like you'd imagine a tired baby to act so there is only so much pushing her I can do

[becj86]

Yes, I understand that. I think these days when you're really struggling to get to a 'reasonable' BT might be the opportunity to give her a chance at a long night with an EBT.

[labrodyk]

thanks Bec...how early are we talking?!

I did an experiment this morning and Audrey lay quietly falling back to sleep for 5 minutes every 30 or so minutes from 6am-7.30am! Didn't say a word...I kept falling asleep.

Nap 1: 10.07; 10.15-11.40
Nap 2: 2.47; 2.57-3.28 woke crying then lay there until I got her up at 4.00pm
BT: 5.50; started crying from 6.40 and won't settle. Took me until 7.35 to get her to fall asleep only for her to wake 5 minutes later. Some water and fell asleep on me, transferred to cot at 8.10pm!

Her A times have seriously dropped, I can't work her out. where previously we could make it to 3hrs and even a little more easily, it now seems like i'm torturing her.

[becj86]

Could well be illness. Could be those short naps have caught up with her and you have to push again Horrid when she's so upset, are you sure she's better?

[labrodyk]

no, she's not better. Congested in the nose, and very cranky. We're in the car a lot and she just wants to fall asleep so early in the morning. Woke just after 6 but fell back to sleep after 20/30 minutes to wake at 7.20am;

Tried to fall asleep at 9am (got her out and did kindy drop off)
Tried to fall asleep at 9.40 (got her out, finished off her bottle)
Nap 1: 10.05; 10.10/13 - 11.37
Upset in pram whilst out.
Nap 2: in car from 2.50; asleep 3.07-3.21 (woke when I opened my door at kindy!)
Nap 3: attempted from 4.00-4.30
BT: 5.30; asleep 5.40.
NW: 6.18. Crying

[labrodyk]

What do I do when she just lays sucking her thumb for hours in the morning and after naps?! It's like she wants to go back to sleep but can't but without the video monitor I wouldn't have a clue she's actually awake. Not a single noise. I'm trying to keep pd at 10am regardless of wakeup (I don't actually know when that is!) and she's only napping until 11.20 or so (about 1hr10min). We were at my parents house yesterday and she only did 40 minutes after 3hr A but not sure if that was environment change or it considering she did the same short nap length in the morning. Then with BT at 6pm she cried for 20 minutes before I went in and settled with white noise and rocking her cot gently. tried to transfer to car and cot about 10pm to go home but she ended up laying in her cot for an hour before drifting off again.  Woke at 6 or earlier but said nothing again until I went in just after 7am!

Then today she napped
10.10-11.20ish
3-3.30/40. She was awake at 40 minutes when I checked the monitor, but again hadn't heard her.

I couldn't get her down any earlier than just after 6.30 and she cried for about 10 minutes but then rolled around for another 20 minutes... Is she losing her ability to do this because I feel I'm helping her to sleep more often than she does it herself lately!

Poor naps and crappy BT. I know she's still not 100% but this is totally doing my head in!

[becj86]

Is she losing her ability to do this because I feel I'm helping her to sleep more often than she does it herself lately!

No, you need a little longer to get to sleep when you've a stuffy nose and you're not feeling well... so does she. She doesn't have the experience to know she won't feel like that soon, she just knows she feels rotten and can't get to sleep how she normally does. Every kid needs help at some stage when they're ill - this too shall pass.

What do I do when she just lays sucking her thumb for hours in the morning and after naps?!

I don't know. To me, I'd just count it as sleep - I'm amazed such a baby exists, mine screamed (and still yells) the minute he woke up and would never stay in bed even for 5 minutes. If you didn't have the video monitor, you'd be none the wiser, right? I think sometimes tech makes things more difficult in some ways

[labrodyk]

If you didn't have the video monitor, you'd be none the wiser, right? I think sometimes tech makes things more difficult in some ways

I agree, but it makes counting her A time impossible and trying to deal with a very cranky child who may have 'dozed' but didn't have a restorative nap or sleep.

So for some strange reason she slept from 7-7 last night but I stupidly put her down at the same time as usual (10am) because after constantly entertaining her and watching her cues I felt she was tired. She fell asleep in 5 minutes but then woke around the 40 minute mark. She fell completely back to sleep shortly after only to wake wide awake minutes later but she's just dozing in her cot... What do I do with her A time now and when do I get her up?

[labrodyk]

Evening Bec!

This afternoon nap was at

However, she's started this thing at bedtime where she drinks as much of her bottle as she wants and then starts crying which continues through the rest of routine (sleeping, bag, lullaby, and tucked in) which she's not done before!! She then cries for a little while after we leave the room.
Granted we've been a little over 3hrs before into bed from last nap the last few nights but this seems odd. Do you think it's time to change up the routine and not have milk so close to going to bed and maybe in a light room (not dark as it is currently)...OR do I to maintain 3hrs before bed.

12 hr night, WU 7.05!
Nap 1: 10.00-10.40
Nap 2: 1.45; 1.55-2.17 (went down crying)
BT: 6.45; 6.50