Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

[labrodyk]

She's pretty good in the car...except when she's overtired and when she wakes between cycles and can't resettle

This morning she chatted for 10 minutes then fell back to sleep for another 45 minutes (10.45-11.30).
Nap 2 even more horrific.
2.30; asleep 2.40-3.15.  Went down crying and terribly OT, took a lot of effort to keep her awake and happy. She tried to hard to resettle but when I went to help her after 40 minutes and when the crying escalated she was just impossible to resettle.

How do I handle these days and what do I do with her?

OOB from 2nd nap at 4.15.
BT: 6.05, but protested for 25 minutes. Was just about to go in and shush/pat to sleep but she fell asleep.

Hmmm, am I doing something wrong? Should I put down before 3 hours to account for settling time or is into bed at 3hrs ok which is what I'm doing?
I thought she'd happily accept the change in A time? I feel before bed though that 2.5hrs is her MAX awake time. 2 hours worked well last night too. The rest of the day, just seems like such a struggle to keep her happy and awake and I'm not getting the long naps

If she wakes in the morning and chats happily until closer to 7,do I do 3hrs from WU or OOB? Or 1/2 the time like I did this morning?

[labrodyk]

So daylight saving seriously screwed us!! Grrrrr

NF: 3.30 (old 4.30). A very small 120ml bottle and went straight back to sleep.
WU: have absolutely no idea but I think about 6/6.30.

Not exactly sure what time to do first nap now... She really needs a good sleep. 

ETA:
Nap 1: 9.30; 9.40-10.22. Rolling around crying.
RS: 10.40-10.48. Cried and I couldn't resettle. Got her up at 11.30.
E: been offering one bottle for an hour.
Nap 2: 2.12; 2.20-3.00. Woke crying.

[becj86]

Well, you know, daylight saving is definitely a great thing (says every NSW person ever, right?). I'm glad we don't have it

She's really got a tiny sleep window or there's something else at play here. FWIW, WU at 6/6:30 would have been 7/7:30, so that's not bad, right? Just means you *can* get her sleeping later and that was a long night for her.

How was yesterday?

[labrodyk]

Thanks for your continued help Bec! I have absolutely no idea what's wrong with her... I've started on protein in addition to solids and she's slept through the night again last night but our days are still a LOT crazy.

The A to bed is much shorter but it seems like she settles better and quicker so not sure if we should continue this?
 
Nap 2: 2.12; 2.20-3.00.
RS: 3.15-4.00
BT: 6.20; 6.35

Monday 4/4
WU: ?? 6.50 chatting
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.05-12.12
^ went down really well. Very little crying but was still a big effort keeping her awake.
Nap 2: 3.02; 3.07-3.42
^ same issue in keeping her happy during A time but was seriously rubbing eyes when I was changing nappy then a lot of fussing and carrying on as opposed to the first nap... Woke rolling around playing with comforter but rubbing eyes and yawning.
BT: 6.13; was trying hard to settle but kept waking. Wasn't crying but not asleep until 6.40!

I got her up at 4.20 after trying to resettle and she drank a full 240ml bottle, perhaps she was hungry!? If she has milk and solids, should there be a top up before nap given the E time is increasing to up to 5hrs? Doesn't really fit with EAS though. 

[labrodyk]

Slight NW at 3.30, unsettled (I think wind) but was asleep again in 10-15mins only a minute of whingy crying.

WU: 5.30!!
E: 5.40 Offered 100ml milk drank it all. Won't go back to sleep.
E: 6.00. Another 150ml
A:
Nap 1: 8.38; 8.43-10.18
^^ protested.
E: 10.30
A:
E: 11.45. Solids
A: gave her some nurofen as I think teeth are hurting...
S: 1.17; 1.24-1.57
^ protest cry. Woke crying then played with comforter, whinging, chatting. Basically being a pain in the  Arse. Tried to resettle and she just kept trying to roll back to look at me.
A: car drive but no sleep just cried the whole drive (40mins)
E: 4.15
S: 5.00-5.20 in the car.
E: 5.30. Solids
A:
e: 7.00. 200ml milk
S: 7.20; rolling around for 20 minutes then crying so hubby tucked her back in and she fell asleep at 7.45.

What a ridiculously long (14hr!!) and tiring day! Where the hell am I going wrong? The morning A might be okay but the middle one is still a mess and I can't get it right at all. At this rate I'm going to end up with a VERY overtired little girl...the black circles are already starting.

[becj86]

Ok, so she slept through 11hr solid, that's nice but WU at 5:30 is a bit rough.

Geez, I thought reading yesterday's instalment that she needs that 3hr, no less or she'll have that protesting pre-nap and a 35-40min WU which we've seen a few times after a 2hr first nap but then with the shorter 1.5hr nap she pulls an OT 2nd nap off exactly 3hr to PD. Her sleep window must be miniscule

FX for a good night with a more reasonable WU tomorrow morning. I wonder if the 1.5hr nap was related to time in bed with you trying resettling at 5:30...

[labrodyk]

This is horrible...I don't know what I'm doing   this morning j didn't do anything, I just went back to bed and she just chatted and chatted but no sleep.

She's woken crying after 45minutes so clearly OT... fx for better night and later WU but I'm
Not sure, I can feel things starting to unravel 

[labrodyk]

Yep, woke at 5am and chatted for 20 minutes before crying. Hubby gave her a small bottle and she cried and chatted until 6 and then slept for 40 minutes until 6.50 (she was just laying awake silently so could have been earlier). Harry was up from 5.50 too so I'm a little frazzled (and sick with a dreadful tonsillitis bug).

Grrrr, what's going on here? Are the A times too much?! Why can't she just settle down for both sleeps and SLEEP! I'm getting really stressed about it now because it's so incredibly frustrating.

She was positively screaming from 9.30 so I had to put her down at 9.43. I think she 'can' do 3hrs A but she can't sustain it

Nap 1: 9.44; 9.46-10.32
Nap 2: 1.45; 2.10-2.36 (car, tried to give time to wind down like you suggested)
I tried and tried and tried from 4pm to get her to nap again but no such luck. I don't know whether to try for another nap or do BT?
I think I might just give up.

BT: 6.00; 6.05/6.10 asleep. Woke and stirred after 40 minutes but settled.

Slept through until 6.15am!! Yay. Just can't get the daytime A right.

[becj86]

Oh goodness, her nights seem to be getting better at least. Those day naps definitely need the longer A time. I wonder why she's so upset through that A time though :-/ It must be awful for you and her

[labrodyk]

She's actually really miserable and showing a LOT of tired signs well before 3 hours. Won't let me put her down. By the 2hr mark this morning she was crying and wanted to be held or she'd fuss and cry. This was our morning and with a much lower A after the short nap she managed to resettle herself...until I made a bit of noise and I think it woke her.

WU: 6.15
E: 6.40 (240ml)
A:
E: 8.30. Solids
S: 9.08; 9.15-9.45 (car)
E: 11.00 (165ml). Rubbing and closing eyes the entire feed.
S: 11.38; 11.50-12.27. self settled 12.34-1.30 ...
E: 12.00. Solids.
A: (preschool pick up! Cried the whole way there and back. Fussy and tired from 3.00pm)
E: 4.00. Milk.
S: 4.15. Asleep 4.30-5.06. Protested and cried but again was falling asleep on her bottle at 2.5 A. When she was in bed she was crying with her eyes closed.
E: 5.20. Solids
A:
E: 7.20 (190ml)
S: 7.35; 7.43 asleep.

So that last A was JUST 2.5hrs, I could not have kept her up any more, she was shattered and was practically asleep on her bottle.  What am I missing here do you think Bec? We keep going back to longer A times but could her 35/40 minute naps be OT rather than UT?

[labrodyk]

5.30 wakeup chatting, and wining? What do I do? Feed her? Get her up? Wait until she starts crying then start the day as close to 6 as possible?! Please help....  She did a much better night when the day was closer to 12h but that's impossible when she's only taking short naps!

[becj86]

I really don't think those short 40min naps are OT. She's resettling herself (which is unlikely with OT wakings - more likely to be screaming and wanting to be asleep but struggle to achieve it), she's taking solid naps >1.5hr with a touch more A time than is delivering the 40min naps.

I do think its worth reducing, probably to about 2.5hr after a short nap but really, especially when she's had a good night, 3hr is where you're going to get the long naps. Whether you can deal with the upset before that is really your call - is she 'just' wanting cuddles (ie. perfectly happy with you) or is she uncomfortable, hungry or what? I do still wonder about reflux - she is upset in that time after feeding and wants to be upright, I presume. I know you're not convinced on that front and if its not affecting sleep but is affecting her whilst awake, that would be a little unusual though it could be related to position. Is she frustrated towards the end of A time if she's trying to master a new skill that's not quite happening for her? Is she OS from playing with her brother/too may toys/having TV on? There are so many things but there's clearly something bothering her a lot of the time. I really wish I could wave a wand and fix it for you

I'd like to think if you can get her sleeping consistent naps and nights, she'd be a bit happier but I don't know that will be the case.

In this morning's case, I'd probably try a small bottle and see if she'll go back to sleep. That's a 10hr night so I would expect she'd need more than that and that's a difficult call wrt OT/UT in that it can be accumulated OT making it more tricky to sleep towards the end of the night and it can be too short a first A time. Both of these take a while to happen though, so its hard to tell when A times haven't been completely consistent. 

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much for such a detailed reply Bec, really makes me feel better.

I don't know what is wrong with her but she was a little better today. She's definitely teething so that's not helping. She doesn't like to be by herself and I'm finding I have to hold her, constantly changing activities every few seconds or she starts to get upset and cry. This morning she was good though and I just sat her in the highchair and she just kept polishing off finger foods (veggies and fruit). There is quite a bit of stimulation (brother, occasional tv, toys) but I find I need to do this to stop her from crying or being upset.

I was thinking reflux but she is happy to be on her back and tummy and doesn't always have to be upright. She just gets to that 2hr mark and starts fussing, won't you play alone, isn't happy to be put down... She is happier when she's had more sleep and a good nap - just seems impossible to achieve at the moment. This was our day today. She took about 10-15 mins after the early morning feed to go back to sleep - is that ok?!

NW: 5.38; 5.48 feed. 150ml
S: 6.02 (6.15-7.50)
WU: 7.50. OOB 8.00
E: 9.20 (200ml)
E: 10.15. Solids.
A:
S: 11.05; 11.11-12.45
E: 1.20. 200ml
W: 2.00. Solids.
A: 2.45-3.45 (car. Including. Preschool pickup)
S: 3.50/55-4.20 (car)
E: 5.00. Attempted a bottle but not interested.
E: 5.30. Solids
A:
E: 6.45. 200ml
S: 7.00; 7.10 asleep

She doesn't fuss at bedtime, will chat or moan but for nap time she positively screams the second we go into her room. I wonder if the bottles and food spaced closer to naps helped this morning? It's hard with that early morning bottle because the day gets off track food wise as she's not interested in milk until at LEAST 4 hourly

[becj86]

I don't want to eat breakfast the minute I get up, she might just want to eat after she's been up for a while. I know we had a stage with L like that, he needed 20-30min to play before settling to feed. Once I made it his call, he would come and ask for a feed and he'd eat much more happily than when I tried to feed immediately after waking.

She took about 10-15 mins after the early morning feed to go back to sleep - is that ok?!

Yeah, that's suggestive of a genuine NW rather than that she was ready to wake for the day - she'd have just fussed/chatted for ages after you fed and put her back in bed if that were the case.

I think its pretty normal for a baby this age to not want to play alone and it can well be 'new' - have a read of what's happening developmentally at 6 months: http://www.thewonderweeks.com/mental-leap-5/

Have you tried taking her in her room for some quiet play time in the middle of A time to create some other positive associations? Is it a transition thing? DS was much happier to go to his room for a nap once I worked out to bring the toy he'd last been playing with so there was a link from one place to the next.

[labrodyk]

I did solids first this morning which kept her much happier and she's transitioned through one sleep cycle for this first nap at 3hr A.

We are 10 days away from the end of the Wonder Week (thank goodness!!) and she's mastering new skills (sitting up, eating, scooting around on her tummy). Such a great tip to take the last toy she's been playing with - I do think that's a transition thing as well. It doesn't help that her room isn't really a room (more like a walk in wardrobe with large window and room for her cot and change table), we're trying to move house but in the interim, being so close to me and the lack of space isn't very nice for her I assume...

NW: 4.00; feed at 4.10.
S: 4.40-6.50

WU: 6.50. Chatting, OOB at 7.10
E: 7.30 solids.
A:
E: 9.30 milk 220ml
A:
S: 10.05; 10.11-11.30 but woke crying... (is that an OT or UT nap or ok?)
E: 12.00. Solids
A:
E: 1.00. 220ml bottle!
A:
S: 2.32; 2.37-3.05; resettled herself but only for 5 minutes at 3.10-3.15, then 3.20-4.00
^^ loud mantra crying & whinging falling asleep.
E: 4.05. 110ml milk
A:
E: 5.00. Solids 
A:
E: 6.35. 230ml bottle!
BT: 6.50; 7.00 asleep

Again, bit of a messed up day with feeds after solids (mainly just finger/table foods or loaded spoons) but she did relatively well considering. Do you think I need to have her ASLEEP by the 3hr A or just putting her down into cot? I'm hoping the naps might extend a little...

NW: 11.30-11.40 crying out
NW: 2.30; shush/pat for 20 minutes and she was silent but started crying again when I left the room.
NF: 3.05 (170ml)
S: 3.15; 3.20-7.00. Unsettled a little between 6-7 but not crying.

Yet today was again a short nap! Why can't we just have two days in a row of something working!!!

WU: 7.00
E: 7.30 (190ml)
A:
E: 8.30. Solids.
A:
S: 9.55; 10.03 -  before 10.41!
^ held in arms from 2hr A as she was crying, yawning and rubbing eyes. Great difficulty settling, whinging and crying but visibly tired.
Great difficulty settling, whinging and crying but visibly tired. Crying when she woke and rolling around fussing.