Think I need help with the 1-0

[Kellyjs]

Sorry, I've really put off posting, but now I'm at a loss 

DD is going through the 1-0, that I am sure about. The problem is, I really think I'm messing it up somewhere and I don't know where. I've read all the historical posts I can, the FAQ, yet I still seem to be getting it wrong.

We've been having developmental issues with call back at BT. This happened at the last half-year DL too, so I've just dealt with that as I did before by camping outside her room and attending to her as needs be. Most of the time she wants to go to the toilet (every 3-4 mins  ) and kudos to her, she usually squeezes something out. Even if it's just a botty burp  .

We had 2 NND's in a row on Sunday and Monday. The first one she refused, the second was because we were out for the day. On Tuesday her mood was awful, so I gave her an hour nap at 1-2pm (pd at 12.30). That BT she didn't fall asleep until 9! So won't be doing that again...

Next day Wednesday, she refused her nap after going back to our usual pd at 1.45pm hope for sleep at 2-2.30pm. Complete meltdown at BT when I forgot her water  . BT was at 7 that day. Fell asleep at 7.30pm I think? It's all become a blur...

From then we are getting EW at 5am and not going back to sleep. Keeps shouting at me that she wants to go downstairs. WI/WO for an hour at least. She is quiet here and there, but i know she doesn't go back to sleep. She then starts singing that she has to wait for mummy to turn the light on.. our version of a gro-clock.

Yesterday she did take a 30mins nap at 2pm. BT at 7.30pm as i thought she may still be OT. Asleep at 8.35pm. WU 5am this morning  .

So is this normal? She seems to have dropped yet another hour off her already low hours of sleep in 24. We are closer to 10hrs in 24 than the 11hrs we had before the DL and the 12hrs we had 5/6mths ago!! Any words of wisdom will be so appreciated. I'm really no good when it comes to my own child it seems    xx

[creations]

Hey Kelly.
No magical answer for you I'm afraid but wanted to say that during the 1-0 mine had nights as short as 9 or even 8hrs with a 2hr nap (so around 10 hrs like your DD is doing now) and yet he could not cope at all without his nap.  Only after the nap was fully gone did his night extend and he started sleeping 12hr nights, amazing, he had never done that (ok he did it for a short while at the 2-1 drop but it didn't last).
If you haven't already tried it, there's an option to go for a later nap but very short, so cutting the beginning part of the nap rather than the end of it, or cutting from both ends.  So if you tend to get refusal at 1.45 for a 2/2.30 nap then maybe don't try until more like 2.30 but don't let it last too long.  The later nap might help with the 5am EW too.

I do think it's normal because the drop is so often a tricky road and they all seem to do it differently.  Eventually mine wet cold turkey from nap every day (2hrs) to zero, his choice, overnight just changed like that.  Everything I had tried up to that point was a flop.

[Kellyjs]

Thank you as always creations, what would I do without you?   

I'm so glad I wasn't missing something obvious, or maybe I was hoping there was and there was a magic quick fix, but I know that's not the case  . Haha. Really good to know her number of hours sleep in 24 is not completely unusual. I am fully of the belief I can only offer her sleep, it' up to her to take it but it's getting rather frustrating!!

Ok, will definitely try the later nap. One thing I have always known is that DD can do a full A time after a sleep cycle so I'll make sure to keep the nap to 30mins or less. Amazingly enough today she is in such good mood this morning. Part of me hates it that if she does finally go down for a nap, she does wake up grumpy for a good hour afterwards. Oh well, all part and parcel eh? I'll keep plodding along and now I know her hours of sleep are ok, hopefully we'll survive this transition like all the others! xx

[creations]

Oh you'll survive it, you just won't feel like you're surviving it

Someone told me an adults nap or 20 mins in the day is worth 1hr of night sleep (hard to believe, it was on some TV programme) and I know we are not talking adults here but when I looked back at our nap drop experience it feels like it makes sense. See mine just couldn't get through the day without a nap, couldn't, not even one NND per week (he now has a scar on his forehead to prove it!  Collapsed at 4.30pm hit his head on the book shelf) so he had to nap, and he had to have 2hrs or he was in the *worst* mood until about an hr before BT, it was unbearable.  On a 2hr nap he was fine but obviously BT had to go late and the night was short.  To me it seemed like each 30 min of DS's nap turned out to be an hour of night, so when he did finally crop the nap he went from 8-9hr nights to 12-13 and then settled into it at 12hrs.

I've seen lots of threads with grumpy LOs after the capped nap. Mine never recovered but very many do. A snack or some quick cuddles and maybe staying in the room to have cuddle time or a drink or read a book might help with the wake up mood, it takes a while to come around from the nap dopiness.

FWIW many of the threads I've read LOs tend not to increase their night properly until the nap is fully gone and they have regularity to their day again.
If she totally refuses a nap I'd prob try to get her down for the night at around 5pm.  I know it may result in a 4 or 5am WU but you are having 5am EW anyway so no loss, and if it's 4am you might have more chance of getting her back to sleep for perhaps a 6am WU.

hugs, I know it is a rough time x

[Kellyjs]

Thanks hun, she did refuse her 2.30pm nap today but tbh I didn't enforce it as she was in such  great mood, oops. I kept asking her if she wanted a nap and she was pretty sure she didn't! I can cope with the grumpines after the nap, it's not too bad really. She gets half an hour watching peppa pig and i get some peace  . All is roses after that tv programme  . If it was like your DS, I would've kept the nap, but she does get through it ok.

I didn't see your post in time tonight, but you're totally right as always. Her only sem-tantrum today was actually around that time as I was running late with tea, so that makes sense to try for BT then. Right, I need to take the plunge and do a SEBT. I'll definitely give it a go tomorrow if she refuses it. Mind you, I won't know what to do with myself for all that time 

I saw that on a poster at the GP surgery recently about napping, I remember pointing it out to DD and laughing about it and telling her 'see you need your nap'. I can totally see her being on of those that needs the stability in her day in order to reorganise her sleep properly. She's such a creature of habit like her mumma! xx

[Haribo2012]

20 min naps were the longest I could allow before proper meltdowns or awful behaviour on waking from a nap. Mostly they were in the car on the way somewhere so it was interesting when he was woken.

We had lots of 5/5.30 WU when in the 1-0 and never have had magical 13 hour nights but they have levelled out to 11/11.30 most of the time. Must say think it's taken a good year for DS to get settled with no nap.

Defo SEBT as they get wired past a certain time and can't settle down, we did 5.45 for ages when DS first dropped naps and did get 5.30/5.45 WU so at least the sleek quality was better.

This too does pass (just takes a while  ) xx

[Kellyjs]

Thanks Zoe, I actually remember your posts when you were going through the 1-0!

So amazingly last night we got close to 11.5hrs (interrupted) sleep, the power of posting on here eh? I don't know what to do with this information  . I might try the 20mins nap at 2.30pm, if she refuses then I can still shoot for a 6.45/7pm BT as it'll be 12hrs from wu. What I have realised with this transition compared to the others is that I can be slightly more flexible can't i? When I read in the FAQ about needing a nap every few days or so I balked at the inconsisency, but actually that might be the way forwards for us eventually.

What i do know that quiet time on the sofa and making a camp at 2.30/3pm didn't work yesterday  , so that option is probably out for us! xx

[Haribo2012]

Quiet time on sofa for us only worked with the tv one and gave us chance to cuddle. We pretty much only got a nap if out and about.

It was the most flexible transition for us as sometimes he'd know off at 11am going somewhere for 20 mins or 2pm for 20 mins but when it was only once in every 4/5 days it never affected BT.

xx

[creations]

When I read in the FAQ about needing a nap every few days or so I balked at the inconsisency

Me too.  I did try the one NND per week as mentioned, terrible. I tried capping, terrible.  Really the only way was to go cold turkey but in DS's own good time.  Once he dropped it there was just the odd micro nap in the car, I learned very quickly I must not leave him to sleep in the car (ie if he nodded off 1 min before getting home do not sit in the car to let him sleep for 30 mins or whatever) as he was as angry as hell with me if I did so, so I'd wake him the second we arrived and he seemed fine with that, bit dopey for a minute but fast recovery in comparison to sleeping longer with a huge fit and slow recovery.
Two weeks in to no naps I invited him to my bed with me (I was just as exhausted as he was by then, it took me a while to adapt to the new routine too, getting no break in the day) for a nap after lunch and he just said yes. I was super surprised, honestly sometimes it just amazes me what they decide to do.  So we went up, he cuddled and went to sleep on and off for about 2 hrs and that really was the last, last, nap.  Considering he had never slept with me it was astounding he decided to take that nap with me.

It sounds like you have a really good idea of how to proceed even though it's so unpredictable.

[Kellyjs]

I think I do thanks creations, all thanks to you both. It gives me a really good idea as to what to expect and we really do just have to muddle through. I feel much better knowing 9hr nights are ok, just as the 11.5hrs happened last night if ok too.

I have to admit the 30mins we used to get after her nap watching tv and having a nice cuddle was rather lovely, glad mine's not the only one that won't sleep there Zoe!. At least i know we've always got that to fall back on rather than charging around all day.

I think that's a lovely story creations, what an absolutely wonderful way to end the naps, kind of makes it all worth it doesn't it?

Thanks so much to you both, I feel I've got a good idea as what to expect, well, until she throws something else into the mix i'm sure    xx

[Haribo2012]

My DS will just go all day and charge round full of energy, I put the tv on now just to get some quiet for an hour lol...we choose 2 programmes then afterwards have a snack and off we go again!!

That is lovely creations  nice way to finish naps. When I was first pregnant with DS2 (hopefully due in 2 weeks) we used to lay together on the sofa and I'd nod off and DS1 would watch his programmes but he'd cuddle me....now he's not so bothered about me lol x

[Kellyjs]

Wow, 2 weeks already Zoe? How exciting! 

So moral of the story is - 1-0 = more cuddles! Now I can definitely get on board with that!  . xx

[Haribo2012]

Can't beat a good cuddle 

I'm scared lol! How do u cope with 2 but that's another thread!!xx