19mo only settles well for naps with CM ???

[trimbler]

Hi there,

I'm frustrated! Perhaps I can just put this down to the 18mo SR, which was certainly bad with DS and went on for ever but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing? She goes to the CM on Mon/Wed/Thu and apparently settles for her nap within 5mins every time, the CM will put her down somewhere between 12:15 and 12:30 and she falls asleep quickly and doesn't wake up until the CM wakes her, either at 3 or 2:50, depending on how many other children she's looking after that day, I guess, to get into the car and collect DS from school. On days where she hasn't had to wake her, she's slept for up to 3h and had a wonderful night afterwards This should happen regularly now on Wed, since DS has an after school club that day so later collection.

However, on the other four days of the week, she's at home, I put her down in the same window (only very recently dropped morning CN, so still trying to find 'optimum' time) and she messes around consistently for up to an hour, sometimes more just chatting/singing, then when she finally falls asleep, she just does an OT 1.5h, waking up very upset but unable to re-settle, not that she would get the chance to go back to sleep anyway on a school day. She then has a bad OT night, although I can't tell you exactly what's happened the last few days as I've resorted to sleeping in the living room (she sleeps in our room), since DH hardly wakes to go to her and falls straight to sleep again afterwards. She has a cold too so some of the poor sleep could be attributed to that, but doesn't explain the huge discrepancy between naps at home and with the CM.

A bit of background - she's always been on the HSN end, needing shorter than average A times and has always been sensitive to OT so we've had some nasty OT cycles in the past. For naps and nights, she has her white bunny to cuddle and white noise, which we bring to the CM to use. At home the room is pitch black, I know the CM has black out blinds but not sure how dark the room is where she sleeps, but she does sleep in her own room there. Lunch is at a similar time both at home and at the CM's, more variable with the CM, she usually has time to poo and be changed before her nap, sometimes this doesn't happen and then I wonder whether she's been uncomfortable, but generally that's not the case. I think she sleeps in a travel cot at the childminders, whereas it's a permanent cot here, but I wouldn't have thought that would be a problem since she's been able to settle there quickly in the past. I've tended to find that she settles worse when we've been around lots of other people, she just seems to get really energised in social settings and have a harder time turning off. But that hardly explains why she struggles to settle when it's just me and her at home, and it's no better when DS and DH are home too.

As I said she's only just dropped her morning nap, she got really tired when we were travelling over
Christmas so we kept it on a few days over that period, but have pretty much dropped it from the New
Year, and now her routine is roughly:

7am Up
12:15/12:30 Nap (2.5-3h at CM; takes ages to get off at home and does 1.5h)
3pm-ish Up for school run weekdays, may try to resettle for longer at weekend; may sleep until 3:30 on Wed at CM
6:30/7pm BT (usually more like 7pm on CM days; 6:30 on bad nap days as she can pull a 12.5h night; 6pm for 'emergency BT' as we call it - on days where we know that even 6:30 will result in lots of OT NWs and EW)
Nights: fairly good on CM days; on bad nap days she'll wake a few times in the early evening, often have a worse nw around 10/11pm and another a few hours later, often wakes early between 5-6:30 but always get her up at 7am.

When I'm working DH collects her from CM and I'm not able to get home to do her BT (inc bf) until around 6:20 so can get her down by 6:40 at the earliest. I usually work late on Thu so DH does BT, the earliest he can manage is around 6:20.

She seems to do best when she gets 15h TS at the moment; before dropping the nap when she was on a stable routine she'd do 14.5-15h, I'm expecting her to lean more towards 14-14.5h once she's sleeping more consistently, used to one nap and caught up on OT...whenever that may be Phew she seems to have finally settled now after 45mins craziness no crying, just playing

Sorry I'm rambling, any ideas on how to get her to settle at home as well as she does at the CM, would be wonderful

[Haribo2012]

Hi, do you think it could be that she is just more stimulated at CM and therefore more tired? Have you tried her down a bit later at home see if it makes a difference for a few days?

FWIW we had the weirdest sleep from 16-20 months and could never figure it out...I always blamed development leaps and sleep regressions.x

[trimbler]

Thanks Zoe - problem is that when she's been around more people in a family context she has more problems settling, eg her naps after church have always been the worst, whether I make an effort to get home a bit earlier so she has longer to settle, or whether we get home later than planned. I always found that being around people would tire DS out more (as it does to me, both being introverts), but it's always seemed to have the opposite effect on DD, I guess that makes her an extrovert? It seems to make no difference whether we spend the whole morning playing at home or go out to the park or to a group or have friends/family round... But idk, there must be something!

[Haribo2012]

Sorry Hun not much use to you...hopefully someone will pop on with an idea.
What does she do at CM? Is it always the same activity before nap etc x

[trimbler]

Oh sorry didn't just want to dismiss what you said out of hand, I just can't think of anything that it could be... But I will ask the CM what happens at/before nap time, she knows she doesn't nap so well at home. Part of me just wonders if it's just the 'usual' playing up for parents but not for those outside of the immediate family - yk, like older kids might behave really well at school but let it all out at home. Not sure what reason I'd give for that in DD's case though, perhaps she just kind of knows that she's expected to sleep at the CM's as the other children are also sleeping, but at home it's just her sleeping so...oh I don't know!

[Haribo2012]

I didn't think that sweetie, but yes I know what u mean about sleeping as the others do. My DS would lay down at nursery for a good 30 mins rest time but not a chance at home.
Thinking back we did have a phase of DS refusing a nap at home at this age, ended up letting him drop off on the sofa for a couple of days then went back to cot napping...
I'd prob just try her a little later at home then if she does an 1.5 hour nap it's not as long till BT. They do like to keep us guessing don't they!! 

[trimbler]

Haha well today DH put her down and she settled immediately so perhaps it's just me They certainly like to keep us guessing, don't they

[Haribo2012]

Over to DH then for rest of the weekend u put your feet up 

[trimbler]

Oh that's a good idea shame DS had a noisy tantrum and disturbed her, she didn't sleep quite as long as I'd hoped but at least more than 1.5h, probably 2h, so I'll take that progress, just hope she can repeat that for me...

[Haribo2012]

Yeah good nap really, hopefully s good night will follow.

Do u think she's playing u a bit? I don't mean that to sound harsh, but maybe she thinks she wants to be with you more x

[trimbler]

I don't think that sounds harsh but since I don't actually go in to her at all whilst she's chatting away, I'm not sure why she would try to 'play me'? And I was here when DH put her down so if she wanted me she could have just done the same, no? Perhaps I'll put it all down to the SR after all?

[Haribo2012]

true, at least she's happy chatting in there and not crying for you. If DH is there at weekends then you only have 2 days where she might chat or short nap so not too bad I guess if it's SR.

[trimbler]

Yeah and amazingly DH put her down after church today and she went straight off again So now I just need to get him to come home from work around lunchtime twice a week Honestly, she hasn't settled for naps at home now since the beginning of the year Well, we'll see what next week brings...

[Haribo2012]

It's so frustrating when you spend your time trying and they resist but then are fine with others...

Maybe she's turned a corner and you'll get her to nap on your days xx

[trimbler]

Hope so

[jessmum46]

My only other thought is maybe super-tired exhausted and crashing at CM (DS does monster naps when totally shattered) then just 'regular' overtired at home and not settling well?  Have you tried say a 30 mins earlier nap just to see?

[trimbler]

Thanks Katherine, tbh I'm not sure what it is/was as she settled really well for me yesterday Perhaps just SR stuff after all And now definitely some teething disturbances, her poor gums are so lumpy, maybe even all her '12mo' molars now on the move, top two feeling quite close but if they're anything like her incisors they'll be another few weeks Incisor number 5 also bumpy now - yep, you remember she's a late teether! I expect B has all his now, does he?

[jessmum46]

Nearly! Bottom two "2y" molars both breaking the gums right now (joy!) so just two to go!

[trimbler]

Oh wow, speedy teether! Does that mean you're all going through a rough patch now then? Hope they break through soon

[jessmum46]

We've had a spate of EWs and lots of cry-outs overnight but actually nowhere near as awful as canines (yet!). 

Hope your good settling for nap time continues

[trimbler]

Hmm a new thought - I 'm wondering whether the settling depends less on the A time and more on the timing of lunch?? I *think* she settles best when there's the least amount of time between finishing lunch and going down - I think when that is right she can often settle quickly even at a non-ideal A time; when it's too long and she goes from that post-prandial sleepiness into excited activity (which she quickly and easily does if given the chance!) then she just won't settle well whatever the  A time! Is that a crazy thought? Problem is that lunch is so variable, sometimes she's a little eating machine and just wants to go on and on eating, other times she hardly touches it, sometimes she takes ages over it and sometimes rushes through. So if I'm right about this, I'll still have to work out what to do about lunch... I think the CM somehow gets through lunch more quickly than I ever manage, DD won't let me help her at all but perhaps she lets her CM?

Also thinking she may be getting to the point where she can cope with more A time in the morning, I think she's going to be a long morning A, short pm A girl... But the only way to extend morning A is by waking her earlier, what with the school collection to fit in. And that seems less easily reversible if it's the wrong decision! Also I don't quite feel able to do that until she can lengthen her day a bit, as BT is still really tight to get in and I think if we shifted WU earlier but kept the nap the same she'd probably need a slightly earlier BT? Really hoping her overall sleep needs will decrease soon though - that does tend to happen around now, doesn't it??

[trimbler]

Ok I'm really fed up with this now! Rant warning...

Poor DD is teething like crazy, waking a lot at night crying but usually settled with teething gel. Really tired all morning, rubbing eyes and yawning, either having a meltdown or on the verge of one, or the opposite - crazy happy. As you know she's struggled to settle for naps at home, especially for me, for weeks now, but taken nice long naps at the CM's, settling quickly most of the time, although just before last week's holiday she apparently took 'a long time' to settle, ie 20mins - at home, this would be amazing, it's more often closer to 1h or even longer, followed by a really unsettled OT nap. So despite the unsettled nights, we decided to take the plunge and get her up 15mins earlier in the morning, to stretch her A time without cutting the nap, which must end by 3pm for school runs. So, up earlier yesterday, but because our CM saw she was so tired in the morning (ie her usual behaviour) she put her down a bit earlier, so she ended up with her previous A time of 5.5h, settled immediately and slept for 2.5h Wonderfully rested afterwards, happy at BT and settled well after 4h second A, pretty decent night (~12h), except for two or three short teething-pain NWs, settled quickly with teething gel. Great

So today... Up earlier again, rubbing eyes and yawning again in the morning but I thought since she'd had a good catch up we could try for 5.75h A time... But of course, almost 1h after pd, she's still babbling away, not upset, just can't switch off at all What's the issue I've tried keeping her calm with low-key play time at home; I've tried tiring her out at groups or in the park; I've tried a later lunch to try and capitalise on any sleepiness resulting from lunch and put her down as soon as possible; I've tried an earlier lunch to make sure she's really full and not too tired to eat properly; I've tried singing to her before naps (DH reckons this is the key); I've tried keeping things as quiet as possible; I've tried going back in again to tell her to be quiet and go to sleep; I've tried letting her be. She has her white noise, bunny and sleeping bag, just the same as at her CM. What else can I try

I can't let her sleep beyond 3pm so now at 1:30pm I know the very best I can hope for this nap is 1.5h if she settles right now, and this just isn't enough for her, she's so much happier in the afternoon and settles better at BT with 2.5h. I can't let her sleep in, in the morning as we have to get up for work etc. I can't do BT earlier than 6:30pm but realistically on days when I work this ends up more like 6:45 as DH doesn't consistently have her ready for me to feed as soon as I get home around 6:15. So it's really hard to help her to catch up on all this lost sleep, when she won't settle for home naps - I just have to crack this but have really run out of ideas Now she's crying, desperately tired so I'll go into her and hope she settles soon! Thanks for reading my rant

[Haribo2012]

Sorry Hun didn't get chance to reply...did she sleep?

[jessmum46]

I'm thinking OT before nap, so struggling to settle. Plus perhaps a touch of A time counting not really being the right thing now?  Are you waking her every morning?  What routine are you aiming for?  For comparison in case it helps, B tends to wake 6-6.30 (natural wake - but I don't ever wake him if he sleeps later), nap at 11.45/12 at nursery or 12/12.15 at home.  Always put down at same time regardless of WU time.  And BT almost always 7pm regardless of nap length.  I'm wondering if perhaps it might help if you set some parameters for nap time (put down time) and bedtime for a while and stick to them, not trying to compensate with earlier naps or earlier bedtimes for a bit to see if she can sort if out herself?  Oh the other thing - are you giving any pain meds besides teething gel?  If teeth are really bothering her then the gels aren't that great and she may be much more tired than usual - hence the bad settling and sleep.

(((Hugs))), I do hope it settles soon x

[trimbler]

Thanks

Yeah, she's usually tired in the mornings at the moment, poor thing really struggling with teething at night But then she'll switch between periods of looking tired and sleepy and being really lively, problem is of course when the lively comes at nap time But she always seems to be able to crash at the CM, even if she goes down a bit later

Yes we kind of have to wake her every morning, since she's in with us - I actually sleep in the living room on days when I work so that I can get myself up and dressed and have breakfast before I absolutely need to get her up in order to bf and get her dressed and out (with cereal bar and squeezy yoghurt whilst getting ready - no time for a sit down breakfast for her!) so I can't let her sleep those days. DH won't sleep in the living room and has to be up by 7am at the latest to get to work, DD sleeps so lightly there's no way she'd sleep through that but in practice she's been waking early recently anyway, usually upset. Then at the weekend even if we wanted a lie in it's tricky to do that with DS as we don't feel it's fair on him to expect him to stay in bed beyond 7am, when that's the time we get him up during the week. Even if we set his gro clock later just in case DD managed to sleep in, she'd likely just wake early anyway and then he'd be pretty annoyed at us

Thanks for B's routine, yeah I aim for consistency with actual times rather than A times but with the lack of settling for naps it doesn't really happen I think she needs something like this:

WU 6:45
Nap 12:30-3
BT 6:45

For the moment anyway, I suspect she needs around 14.5h - she needed 15h for ages then I think her needs dropped a bit whilst she was still on 2 naps but went back up to more like 15h again as she adjusted to being on one nap. I'm thinking I need to be prepared for her to drop down to more like 14h before long, but as you say with all this teething, she's definitely more tired and will need to catch up.

Actually forgot to say that her settling last week was generally much better, but she didn't take such good naps - some were interrupted by visitors going to the loo next to her room (difficult to ask them not to ) and others seemed to be teething pain. Anyway, that week she was up at 7am and the better settling naps were at 12:40pm. So to give her a chance to have the 2.5h naps that I feel she's happiest after, now that school is back on, I thought I'd start getting her up a little earlier.

Yesterday went like this:

WU I didn't even look at the time, knew it was earlier than I wanted got up 7am
Nap PD 12:30, messed around until finally fell asleep 1:50 had to wake 3pm miserable afternoon!
BT 6:30 I couldn't do any earlier
Night - pretty bad!

WU I was in living room and DH didn't look but when I got up and turned monitor on at 6:15 she was already awake and chatting Went a bit quiet for periods but never properly back to sleep. Up at 7.
Nap at CM: 12:20-14:45 (straight to sleep, natural wake) Really tired on collection
BT straight down at 6:20 crashed!

So...yeah, I guess not entirely consistent, but she's such an OT wreck right now I don't want to push her any more BT is tricky, depending on the day and how cooperative she is and how disruptive DS is, we might be able to get her down closer to 6pm for a catch up when needed, but on my work days it can't be earlier than 6:45 really and that's why I feel I can't really be consistent when BT on those days is later than ideal...

And yes, I've been giving ibuprofen before every nap and BT, for probably way too long now but if it's a short NW/nap wake (and they do tend to be), we just use teething gel for that immediate relief - always found that giving her meds wakes her up even more and extends the nw However I think when the teeth are actually cutting that the gel must really sting at first, before it starts to numb

Oh sorry I'm badly rambling again, so tired and coldy today!

[trimbler]

So... Good news on yesterday's nap I decided to try giving her a bit more to eat in the morning to get her bowels moving, which worked and she had a good bm just before lunch so when she started to get sleepy over lunch I was able to take advantage of that and get her down straight afterwards without her getting over excited during nappy change. Bear in mind she was up early (don't know when, perhaps 6ish?) but we didn't get her up until 7am, she was in a real state all morning, meltdowns etc, but she went straight to sleep at 12:30 So she was able to have 2.5h before I had to wake her for school collection. She was clearly a bit OT as she cried out around 1.5h but straight back to sleep without intervention and could have probably done with being allowed to sleep a bit longer, so I gave her an early night ( just after 6pm) and she had a good one, considering she had cut her lip and probably had some teething pain- just one nw around midnight, settled with teething gel fairly quickly. Woke happy for the first time in ages around 6:30am this morning, got her up 6:45am.

Tried for 12:30 nap again today with same feeding strategy, did her poo before lunch, I thought that since she was better rested but it was still an increase in A time when she was actually up, she should still settle better but without being OT, so that 2.5h should be enough for her to manage a normal BT... But, no! Despite being sleepy in her highchair and when we went into the bedroom,she just started singing in her cot and still hasn't settled now at 2pm DH has gone in a few times which I'm not sure helped, hard to tell, she's clearly way OT now but so wound up I wouldn't be surprised if she fails to sleep at all so where does that leave us? That she'll only settle at all if OT for PD?? I'm sorry I'm just so stressed now as these bad naps result in bad nights, yesterday night was so good as she'd both had a good nap and I'd been able to give her an early BT so she could catch up - usually she can't have both a good nap and early BT as she'll only nap well for the CM and can't have  EBT those days. I'm shattered, we have other stuff gong on which means staying up lay discussing stuff with DH, and then broken nights and EWs due to OT from not napping - I'm too tired to know what to do and too stressed to think   I just don't cope with sleep deprivation and am at the end of my tether now! sorry again, thanks for your help

So it was almost 3pm by the time she got to sleep finally I know I shouldn't get so emotional over it all but she slept for 1h before waking herself and was soooo miserable all afternoon I just hate seeing her like this and all because she won't settle plus of course I know the night will be bad and as you can probably tell I'm already struggling big time with not enough sleep my mental state is just not good at all right now! DH bathing them now then straight for EBT again, I wanted 6pm but they won't be ready by then, as soon as possible then, but what to do tomorrow... Do I just have to go for mega long A times so that she's super exhausted and gets used to crashing out straight to sleep and gets out of this habit of chatting for hours on end? Or pull right back as she's already OT and would ideally need an earlier nap, which she would certainly manage at the CM but hasn't done at home for a very long time

So DH put her down 12:30pm Sunday and she went straight to sleep until he woke her 3:20pm (I was visiting a friend in hospital) - so very pleased she slept well but still very confused as to why she won't do that when I'm around What can I do if it's just me?

[jessmum46]

Hun I've just found this in my list of replies, so sorry and big (((hugs))).

Just to recap, I assume you've ruled out anything different about the environment when you put her down compared with DH or the childminder?  And is there anything different in terms of timings?

I'm thinking going in when she is settling is a bad idea, unless she really *needs* you.  I would actually just stay right away in case the distraction isn't helping.  I'm still wondering if you need nap rather earlier for a while though....with a natural rested wake at 6.30-7am B is very happy to go down for his nap at 12ish and he's definitely not as HSN as your LO.    As your DD isn't getting a natural happy rested wake in the mornings right now (you're waking her, so not really giving her chance to get the sleep she needs to catch up on) I think 12.30 is too late for a HSN baby.  The fact you are seeing quite pronounced tired signs pre-nap says OT to me, usually when we go up B is wide awake and asking to play but still drops off in 5 mins or so.  What about going crazy and just trying 11.30am for a bit?  What's the absolute worst that could happen? 

[trimbler]

Thanks Katherine - no apologies needed, I've only been ranting after all

No differences that I've been able to pinpoint! CM puts her down any time between 12:15 and 12:45, I think depending on how tired she's seemed in the morning and what they were doing for an outing. She does look after other children, so I've not asked her to do anything too specific in terms of timings, since I don't even know what her ideal would be! Actually on Wednesday this week she wrote that she PD'd at 12:30 but she babbled for 15mins before dropping off, so today she wrote that she'd put her down at 12:45 and she went right off.

Yeah I see what you're saying... I guess we haven't tried 11:30am as when she first had a few one nap days, she was doing 5h first A time, but after a while (with two nap days in between and fairly good sleep on the whole) she started babbling away at 5h so we gradually moved the nap later, so I think she initially did 5h 15mins when she finally went to one nap every day, this ended up getting later but perhaps too soon. There does seem to be a general pattern of settling better when put down a little later, except for those days where she's had a really bad night, and in those cases she has been able to settle at 12:15 at the CM - but even then won't at home But then again her A times are often longer really, as we only have to wake her at 7am if she's been awake, say from 6am and managed to drop back off again - she's often waking early these days, but then her gums are, in DH's words, "like mountains" and she's clearly bothered by it. I do kind of get the feeling that she likes a long morning A, but then needs a nice long nap and a short A to BT, 3.5h max. I have heard of other LOs like that, I think - is it ridiculous to think that's what she needs?? I'm guessing B would do more like 5h to BT? That would have been more typical for my DS, actually, he had about 5h either side of his nap to begin with, I think, and his settling problems always tended to be with BT at this age, rather than his nap - whereas DD settles fine at BT mostly, but as you know struggles to switch off at nap time...

Did you notice anything different between J and B, in terms of what they needed in order to be able to settle for sleep? I seem to remember my DS needed some good physical exercise! But this doesn't seem to make any difference to DD, from what I can tell - her sleep struggles at home seem to be the same whether she's been to the park, soft play or whatever, or just staying at home.

I should share some 'success' from Tuesday though - wasn't a brilliant night beforehand and she was awake from quite early but settled immediately at 12:30 and stayed sound asleep until I had to wake her at 3pm for school run. For comparison, CM PD'd at 12.30 on Wednesday and she slept 12:45 - 3:30 (DS has after school club so she doesn't have to do school run until later that day), then today she slept 12:45 - 2:50 (CM had to wake), which must have been too short as apparently she was having tantrums when DH brought her home!

Oh yes, what I was going to say about Tuesday was that I'd given her a big snack around 10am, which she really loved. She properly emptied her bowels then before lunch, which I did just before 12pm, she didn't eat loads but she often doesn't at that time anyway, but she didn't need a nappy change then before her nap, and was nicely comfortable I think, not over full or needing to poo... CM actually gives them a snack after the school run, which she seems to call breakfast, I'm not sure quite how much she eats then but perhaps a larger mid morning snack works better for her? I think perhaps when I haven't given her such a big snack she gets really hungry so I give her lunch a bit earlier than intended and then she kind of gets a second wind and struggles to switch off?

Sorry I'm not good at taking advice I will seriously consider the earlier nap time, I guess my concern would be that it could encourage EW if she likes a long first A, and that in turn would mean she'd need an earlier BT, but we just don't have the flexibility to make it any earlier. My other concern of course would be that she just wouldn't settle, she'd be so annoyed at being put down then and just be upset and not sleep. Or that she'd end up needing too long an A to BT, which she doesn't seem to cope with very well, or at least hasn't up until now...

Thanks so much, poor thing is having horrible nights now with those teeth, I do wish they'd hurry up without all this stop starting

[jessmum46]

Not ridiculous at all to think she prefers a long morning!  Some LOs are like that I guess.  With DD the nap just moved later as she got older as she would refuse any earlier, latest it got was 1.30/2ish for a 6.30am-7/7.30pm day.  Bs afternoon A is 4.5-5.5h depending on how long he sleeps. 

Never particularly noticed much difference in settling between the two of them, though J would sometimes struggle to settle if she'd spent a lot of time sitting rather than active.  B goes down a touch earlier at nursery than home but I put that down to routine and stimulation level.  Oh one thing just reading about the snack/lunch thing - I do take B straight from his lunch chair up to bed.  He will often ask to play but if I let him get involved with something he will get super-cross if I then try to take him away.  So yes I'd leave lunch to the last minute before nap (we do 11.30 lunch at home and he's down by 12/12.15) and give a big snack mid morning to get her through

[trimbler]

Ooh that's interesting about B needing to go straight to nap too. I guess I was set on the idea that I needed to give her time to poo before her nap, as this was an issue for DS, if he didn't do it then it would almost always disturb the nap. But she goes more frequently anyway and it seems with bigger snacks I can kind of make her go before lunch, so perhaps that's the way forward...

Wonky couple of days anyway, dodgy tummy yesterday gave her EBT as she was really tired, but then she had strange NWs. Probably my fault as I was concerned I hadn't heard a peep so went over to check on her around 11pm and managed to disturb her a little - my theory is I kind of inadvertently did w2s as she didn't stir much (just enough for me to know she was ok) and then continued to sleep soundly until around 2:45, when I reckon she had the nw that she might have had around 11:30?? But because she'd already had more sleep, she just chatted and sang for ages almost 2h, then woke up again every half an hour or so until around 6:45 when she started singing "ding dang dong" (or at least her version - she had the tune but approximated the words), I guess that was our 'morning bells' ringing She was just crazy this morning, very cute but just on a different planet! Screamed when I tried to put her in her highchair for lunch and seemed much happier when I suggested just going to bed, which we did (without lunch - she refused to even look at it), no fuss at all, but neither any sleep until an hour later blah - no idea where we are now slightly delirious from lack of sleep myself - of course I just lay awake from 2:45am so not sure what I'm still doing up now really...DH working but that's no excuse, ok I've talked myself into going to bed now, night night and thanks

[jessmum46]

Oh dear, she sounds such a character! 

[athenasmom]

OK I now you are struggling and I don't mean to make it into a joke... BUT I had to laugh so hard. Does she really sing in the middle of the night?

[trimbler]

Haha hi Suzanna good to see you Well, it felt like the middle of the night, but it was after 6am Laugh away - I struggle so much with sleep deprivation that I have to make light of her quirks or find something else to laugh at, or I'll go crazy myself...perhaps I already am I do love the fact that she seems to have such a great sense of pitch though, I mean just today she picked up this cheap toy guitar (DS had bought it for her with his own money at a school fair - 5p I think it was!) and plucked the strings a few times, horrible sound but she repeated it herself at the same pitch You can probably tell I'm rather hoping she'll enjoy playing music herself one day

[athenasmom]

OK back to your sleep issue ...
Do you think she might have lower sleep needs? Are you maybe expecting too much sleep from her? I know your DS was pretty HSN so maybe you think that's the norm  I have two LSN kids, DD even more than DS, and I realized that I expected too much from DD. Now she settled into a routine that seems too little sleep for me  but seems fine for her 

[trimbler]

Thanks, I have to think about that a bit more... Up until now I've found that she's done best with more sleep than DS would have had at the same age - he wasn't really HSN, just needed low A times or he'd get OT quickly, but that just meant he kept naps a bit longer but that helped him to accrue the overall A time he needed. However, he really needed a long A to BT, whereas I think DD might need a long A to the nap, followed by a long nap and short A to BT... At least, that's where my thinking is right now - how to get her out of OT craziness when she chats and sings instead of going to sleep and either wakes early or we have to wake her for school run or just because DS has got up and come in... Well, that's another matter she does however tend to settle well at BT

[athenasmom]

DS was a looooong morning A time and short afternoon A time kida guy too. He could easily do 7 7.5 hours in the AM and would happily go to bed after just 4.5 hours in the PM at 2 years old.

DD is the opposite (of course, in almost everything LOL) ... she needs her nap at 5.5 hours A time in the AM but would need at least 6 - 6.5 hour A time before BT after a good nap.

[trimbler]

Hey, sorry didn't mean to ignore you, just been really busy lately That's interesting to know how they can be so different Well, I've kind of given up for the time being, illness has struck again and downstairs are having their kitchen and bathroom completely redone and we have the clocks changing soon and... Well actually the good news is that nap settling is getting a bit better I think, still not consistent and the naps themselves aren't always so good, but there are so many possible reasons for that now! Oh and on top of all that I mis-set my alarm this morning and got everyone up half an hour earlier than intended erm...early clock change, perhaps?

How are you all doing?