Getting back on track - so many problems, not sure where to start.

[claredm]

At 10 months, my son was sleeping through the night 2 out of 3 nights, for naps we'd put him into the crib awake, and he'd putting himself to sleep without any intervention, at nights too mostly. If he struggled, we soothed him a few minutes, walked out and he would be ok. Then we travelled from California to England, and resorted to all sorts of props to handle the jet lag, teething, the need for no crying in a shared house.

When we returned to USA, he couldn't go to sleep without help, had short inconsistent naps, and was waking 2 times a night and it is incredibly hard to get him back to sleep. I'm loosing my mind for lack of sleep and need some help.

We have been using the put down method (we put him down every time he stands/sits up), to re-train him to fall asleep on his own. This (and a longer awake time) really helped the naps, but night time it isn't working. After we do PD, and he stops trying to sit/stand up, we have to sit next to the crib until he is VERY asleep.This seems like a prop, but otherwise he hears us leave, and he cries again and we're back to square one. This means getting him back to sleep takes a good 30-60 minutes, even when he wakes at night. How can we do something different here? Slowly sitting further and further from the crib just doesnt seem like a good solution. Can we do walk in walk out?

Even after a 4 hour awake time, sometimes he has a 45 minute nap in the morning. Could this be over tired?

I think we are at the stage of transitioning towards 1 nap - with a longish morning nap, and a short afternoon cat nap. If he has a 4 hour awake time normally, what awake time is appropriate after an afternoon cat nap before bedtime to prevent over or under tired, and waking 45-60 mins after falling asleep at night time? 3 hours?

We aim for bedtime ~ 6.50, asleep by 7pm, and wake up is 5am. I think he really needs a longer night time sleep, especially to go to 1 nap a day. But if I'm trying to have a consistent bed time and wake time, how do i extend that?

He typically wakes at around 10-11pm, and then 2.30-4am. He is very hungry 10-11pm, so I don't think I can drop this feed yet (especially as he feeds less recently due to teething). The 2.30-4am he doesnt seem as hungry, it is VERY hard to get him back to sleep. Sometimes I can get him to sleep with PD, but he is in a very very light sleep and wakes every 45mins. But sometimes I can't get him back to sleep after 4am.  I guess I need to stop BF at this wake up, and hopefully it will be easier to get him back to sleep here with advice on how to modify the PD approach we've been using.

A few EASY examples (we're aiming for 4 hours between waking and into crib).
5.15am wake up
9.35-1025 nap (9.15 crib)
2.30 -3.10 nap. (2.25 crib)
7.15 asleep (6.40 crib)
(10pm wake and BF)
(2.30am wake, asleep of and on until 3.45. Screaming 3.45-4.45, asleep 4.45am - 5.30am)

5am wake
9am-9.45 nap
1.15-3pm nap (in stroller because nanny is here - see below)
6.55pm asleep (6.50 crib)
(wakes at 7.50am, 10pm, and 3am)

A few extra bits of information:
- Our nanny comes twice a week, and was having trouble getting him to sleep and so he naps in the stroller on the days she is here (I assumed this was a better solution than her using props which she had been doing). These same days, my husband puts him to bed as I'm at work. My husband typically has a much harder time getting him to sleep.
- He has been teething on and off.
- I should 'admit' I typically don't put him straight back into the crib after a feed. I feed him lying in bed in his room, and typically let him fall asleep. In the past this wasn't an issue.
- He's always been an early riser. 5am wake up is ideal for us, but i feel he should be sleeping from 6/6.30pm - 5am, not 7/7.30pm-5am

[trimbler]

Hi there, so sorry you haven't had a reply to this yet. I'm going to refer you specific routine questions to someone else, since mine both took the opposite route to the 2-1 (ie short am, long pm nap), so I don't have a good feel for the long am, short pm nap route. I have to say, I don't often hear that a 5am WU is ideal

How long have you tried your PD approach? You mentioned he was an independent sleeper at 10mo, how old is he now? You could try wiwo if you don't feel your method (gradual withdrawal) is working, since he used to be able to self settle. Do you think he's struggling with big separation anxiety at the moment? Have a read of this, if you haven't already seen it: Getting back on track using Walk In/Walk Out (WI/WO)

I tend to agree that you'll need to try and wean that second nf, use whatever method you decide to use during the day, and see if you can get him to take more milk during the day, perhaps time medications so that he's not too uncomfortable for his feeds? What's your feeding routine like - milk and solids?

I know I said I wasn't going to advise on the routine, but have you tried putting him to bed much earlier? With those short naps and wakeful nights I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was getting OT, and you may actually find he has an easier time settling of you put him down earlier, wdyt? Looking at he second day you posted, he settled quickly at BT with almost 4h A after a nice long nap. The first day he had two short naps but you only put him down 10 mins earlier for BT. Just a thought.

[creations]

Hi Welcome to BW

At 10 months, my son was sleeping through the night 2 out of 3 nights, for naps we'd put him into the crib awake, and he'd putting himself to sleep without any intervention, at nights too mostly. If he struggled, we soothed him a few minutes, walked out and he would be ok.

In addition to the info trimbler has asked for, could you also post an example EASY from when he was 10 months old so we can see what his routine looked like when he was still self settling and before it went off track.

1.15-3pm nap (in stroller because nanny is here - see below)

Have you tried stroller naps on the days nanny is not there? to see what happens and if he settles more readily or sleeps for longer?

we have to sit next to the crib until he is VERY asleep.This seems like a prop, but otherwise he hears us leave, and he cries again and we're back to square one. This means getting him back to sleep takes a good 30-60 minutes, even when he wakes at night. How can we do something different here? Slowly sitting further and further from the crib just doesnt seem like a good solution. Can we do walk in walk out?

Have you actually tried sitting further away to put the gradual withdrawal steps into action?
Do you use a key phrase to verbally reassure him at these times when you sit (either a one off verbal reassurance or repeated throughout the sitting)?

sorry for so many questions, hopefully when we get a good idea of the bigger picture we will have some more suggestions to offer.

[claredm]

Hi
Thanks for all of your replies. I've responded to your questions and give an update.

> He will be 1 year old at the beginning of Feb (but was 5 weeks premature).
> We've been trying PD for ~ 2 weeks. But the nightwakings I breastfeed most of the time, then if he has trouble going to sleep, use PD after the breastfeeding
> I first noticed separation anxiety about 3 months ago (he cries when I first leave him with the nanny). So I'm not sure if this is that. Although I agree, he clearly wants us to stay with him. And gets angry when we leave him (when we put him down).
> His eating has gone down since his teething started after our holiday. In general, he BF less, and eats solids more, as the day progresses.
WAKE UP
BF
Snack about 2 hours after waking (he's not interested in solids in the morning)
BF (just before his nap, we go into the bedroom, BF, have 5-10 minutes of stories, then into the crib)
NAP
Sometimes BF (depending on how much he BF/ate in the morning)
Solids (~ 5 ice cubes worth) about 1-1.5 hrs after he wakes from his first nap.
BF just before nap
NAP
Solids about 1 hour after waking
BF/Solids snack about an hour later
BF just before BED (he is close to dropping this BF, he barely drinks anything)
NIGHT

> I do agree that he is OT. I was hesitant to put him to bed earlier, because he likes to wake at 4am, and I didn't want to risk that again. But will try it. I think the suggestion to try afternoon napping in the stroller is a good interim solution to deal with the OT. If he is in the crib, and stirs at 45 minutes, he often wont go back to sleep. But in the stroller, you can rock him back to sleep. 45 minute naps have always been a MAJOR problem for us. He woke after every 45 minutes (even at night) from 2-5 months old. At 5 months we started PU/PD and it largely sorted the problem.

> We tell him his sleep phrase as we lay him down and then throughout. We also talk to him calmly, we sometimes sing if he is getting very upset, and when he stands we tell him to lie down (which he sometimes does).  Once he is quiet, we are quiet though. We can try gradual withdrawl, but from his responses to me moving from standing over the crib, to sitting on a chair next to the crib, i'm a bit unsure of success here.

Here is a 10mo routine

4.40am wake
8.12-9.40 nap (in crib)
1.05pm-2.05 nap (in crib)
6.05 asleep (5.45 crib)
Sleep through the night :-)

4.40 wake
8.10-9.40
1.25-2.05 nap
6pm asleep
11.30pm wake (3am wake but fell back asleep with no intervention)

*** UPDATE
Over the last few days, he got a stomach bug, and therefore has been more tired and isn't eating well. But this strangely has helped with sleep. He's going down on his own at every nap (just a 2-3 seconds of fussing as I lay him in the crib). And the last two nights, he went down like that at bedtime too. He is still waking a night, and taking a while to get back to sleep though, and he's reverted to earlier waking with his earlier bedtime.

4.55am wake
9-10.30 nap
2.30-3.15 nap
6.35 asleep

11.15pm night waking

4.10am wake
8-9.30 nap
1.15-3pm nap (in stroller - he was exhausted!)
6.30pm asleep

12am + 3am night wakings

5am wake
8.30-10am nap
2-2.45 nap
6.30 asleep (6.20 crib, he just lay there quietly
 
He's always been an early riser, so perhaps 4am is just his thing. I still worry that night time sleep is too short, as it is struggle to stop him falling asleep when we go out for a walk at 6.30am for half an hour.

[creations]

OK I've been looking at this for a long time now humming and hahing over it.  Here's my thoughts, I apologise if they seem a little jumbled:

Eating (which is adding to sleep disturbance)
- Whilst it is quite normal for a LO to go off solids whilst teething and so being offered more milk, my overall impression is that there is perhaps too much emphasis on milk and not enough on solids for a LO this age.  Milk is the primary source of food until 12 months but there is a gradual move towards taking full family meals as he nears that age.
- It can be normal for a BF LO to have a night feed for a little longer than other and for a Lo born a bit earlier to continue with a NF a bit longer but by 12 months I would really expect all calories to be taken in the day hours and for him to not need a night feed nor wake from hunger in the night.  You mentioned he looks like dropping the BT feed, this isn't the feed to drop, it is the NF which I would drop and get the BT feed back to a good full feed.  And here I mean both NFs, he was sleeping through the night without a NF at 10 months (roughly 9 months adjusted) and I would think the only reason he is taking NFs now is because he is not taking enough calories in during the day hours (good solids meals plus a full BT BF).
- The way to up day time calories can be through a combination of changes: offer solids which are high calorie (fats, proteins); offer solids he is interested in (he may be more interested in finger foods and in being given exactly the same food he sees you eating at meal times. I would expect him to be eating finger foods and family meals at this age rather than a number of cubes of puree as his main meal plus a couple of snacks); wean the NFs so he is hungrier in the day (for both solids and a decent BT feed)

If he is not hungry for solids in the morning I would consider switching to solids first for breakfast followed by BF. I don't think I have ever recommended this before so I am not saying it lightly.  He does though have plenty of opportunity to take milk in the day even if this one meal is switched. maybe give it some though. I know some other BWers have needed to switch breakfast to solids first because otherwise their LOs didn't take a proper breakfast meal which they needed.

SA and put down for naps
I would probably begin more of a set nap time with a view to moving it a bit later rather than working on A times each day.
So initially looking at 5am WU set nap at 9.15am.  If he wakes earlier than 5am I would try to resettle until 5am then get him up to start the day and hold out for the 9.15am nap.  Admittedly it's easier to start this on a day with a good WU time.
If you feel confident to begin WI/WO then that's fine. Otherwise my suggestion for GW is to put down as usually and instantly move further away from the crib, if you have a chair there set it up further away before you begin WD for the nap and show it to him when you go in, "look this is where mummy will sit whilst you go to sleep".  Make it a few feet away, not a few centimetres.  Yes he will protest but he is protesting anyway so not much change right?  You put him down same as usual go to your chair and say your usual phrase or "I'm right here. Everything is okay, go to sleep".
I would keep the chair in that position about 2 days and then move on - the point of GW is you *keep moving forward towards your goal*, you do not wait until LO is 100% happy and comfortable with the new set up because then when you try to change things he gets super upset again.  By moving forward with your plan little by little each day he has fear of you leaving but each day he is reassured that you stayed and actually it all worked out ok with you a few feet away, so you move again. So whilst you don't want to be moving further and further with him only 10% happy you also don't wait until 100% happy, you take the next step in your plan when he is somewhat fussy but has belief and trust in you being there for him.
Here's an example of how the steps might look, with a pause for perhaps a day or two at each stage
1. chair is a few feet away
2. chair is several feet away
3. chair is in the doorway
4. chair is outside the door
5. chair is not visible from cot even when he stands to look (you still verbally reassure as needed)
Also, during this process if he gets very upset to the point where you would usually do something different (go to crib, or put hand on, pick up etc) you *still do that thing* GW is not about rules where you can't help him it's about where you end up after you have helped him.  Your description of what you do now was lovely but I didn't see what you do if he escalates his fear/crying so I will just guess that you put a hand on him for example.  So when the chair is a few feet away you do all your usual phrases, song etc, if he escalates to where you'd put a hand on, stand up go, put hand on, do your thing then return to your chair - so DO put hand on but DON'T spend all nap time there, your goal is that chair.
By the end of the process you are in the living room listening on the monitor and any calls for you will still be responded to just the same as when you were in the room, you always go to him, and by then he will know this.

So a rough routine:
WU 5am (you said this is your ideal time)
E 5/5.30 breakfast solids
E 6/6.30 BF
E 8.45/9.00  BF or solids snack with top up BF
S 9.15 - 10.45
E 10.45 lunch solids
E 1.00 BF or solids snack with top up BF
E 2 dinner solids
S 2.45 - 3.30
E BT BF
BT 6.30
(10.5hr over night sleep)

You mentioned needing a longer night, really I would think this is not likely to happen until your LO drops the CN in the afternoon.  He would need to be able to stay awake for 5-6 hrs A time to drop to 1 nap and his night would likely lengthen. It isn't something where you can force the night to get longer so that the nap can drop, generally it goes the other way around.  Just in the same way that you are unlikely to get him to eat more in the day until you drop the night feeds (although in this case if you are not usually offering the same meal you are eating he might be more motivated by that too).

Sorry if this is somewhat garbled. I hope something here helps.
Really I'd say have a good think about what your plan is, write it down then move forward with it so you know where you are headed. x