Happy Night wakings

[choc]

Should say that they weren't the long babbling wakings we were having. Just quick resettles.

[Kellyjs]

Well, that's great they're not long-drawn out ones! I don't want to tweak anything just yet in case last night was a one off. We all have unsettled nights here and there don't we?

Waking often tends to signal discomfort, so i'd keep an eye on that too. Early teething perhaps? Or wind? Anyhoo, hope today goes ok with the swimming lesson. Hopefully as it's just an odd day that's thrown out, fx it won't be too bad for you xx

[choc]

Thanks Kelly, fingers crossed!

[choc]

Hi, I'm back! The long night wakings are still happening. They are usually at about 3.45 for 45 mins to an hour but last night was 1.30pm. Then he is awake again around 6ish on and off til we get him up at 7am. The problem is my easy is all over the map at the moment so I don't know if you will be able to help me?
We are aiming for this
Wu 7am
S 10 til 12
S 3 til 4.00/4.30 (not sure which would be best for a 7pm Bt)
However things keep popping up to ruin  it eg ds1 doctors appointments etc.

I can post the last few days though they are wildly different.

25th march
Wu?
S 10 to 11.30
S 1 to 1.30 in car had appointment for ds1
S 4 to 5.15 woke him up. Put down at 3.
Bt 7
Wu 4am - 4.45
Wu 6.30

26th march
Wu 6.30
S 10 to 12
S 3.40 to 4.40 woke him up. Put down at 3
Bt 7
Wu 3.45 - ?
Wu 6 to 6.45
Wu 7.30

28th
Wu 7.20
S 10.15 to 10.55 (dh home and so caused os I think)
S 2 to 4
Bt 7 some ot noises. Possibly likes shorter A to bed?
Wu 1.30 - 2.30
Wu 5.50 I think

I only go to him if he cries which is usually because he has got himself trapped in the bars or corner of the cot etc. No dummy either. He does self settle in the end. I often give paracetamol just in case and sometimes he seems to drop off 15 mins later.
Any ideas?

[trimbler]

Hi there, sounds like you have a good feel for his A times during the day, some nice naps there Sorry to hear nights are still a pain My gut feeling is that you may have had some UT going on during those first two days you posted above, perhaps you could stretch that second A more after a nice long first nap? But then the last day above you probably saw some OT, due to that short morning nap - even though he took a good pm nap, you may be right that he couldn't handle the long A to BT, perhaps go for EBT another time if that happens again? When did he drop his last CN? You may find that squeezing one in could help in days like that, even if APOP'd - could help you accrue sufficient A time to avoid UT but keep the A to BT short to avoid OT?

[choc]

Hi, thanks  for the reply. I will try a longer 2nd A time tomorrow if I get another good morning nap. Would you try 15mins more?
Today I did squeeze in a catnap, he dropped it about 3 weeks ago. Today was very annoying
Wu 5.50 ish and dozed on and off til 7, I think. 
S 10 til 11.05 as woken by an alarm! I was mad!
S 1.50 to 3.10 I had to wake him for the school run.
S 5.15 to 5.45 I was worried about the long A to bed so squeezed this in. I was worried I'd done the wrong thing, what do you think?
Bt 7.15 but still a few noises on the monitor in the first hour, could he still be OT?

So do you think the nws are OT or ut?

[choc]

Ok well we had  a virtual sttn! He definitely woke around 2 or 3 am but can only have been for a  few mins! Then awake at 6. 30! So was that because of the shorter A time to bed do you think?  Today I have to do a school run at 3 which throws the day out a bit.  It could be this
Wu 7
S 10 to 12
S 3.30 to?

I'll probably get an OT 30 min nap at 3.30 due to the long unavoidable  A. If I don't, when should I let him sleep til  for a 7pm Bt?

OR should I try to recreate something more like yesterday? I don't really want to go back to the catnap though.

[choc]

So we got the short OT nap I expected. 3.45 to 4.15/20. Early bedtime here I think. Bet we dont get another sttn.
Tomorrow should be able to do
Wu 7
S 10 to 12
S 3.15 to? Which is a 15 min A time increase. Is that OK do you think?

[trimbler]

Hey there, sorry I'm not often on here until the evening, so only just seen your updates. Yay for the sttn Looks like you did the right thing there, despite the really annoying start to the day Yes I wouldn't be afraid to hang on to that CN a little longer - not necessarily every day, but if naps weren't so good for whatever reason, it really can help to avoid OT from a long A to BT, but still get enough A into him to be able to sleep well at night, iyswim? During the 3-2 I remember some 10min CNs, just to get the extra A time in before BT, you may find that can help for you too, occasionally.

It's hard with school runs, isn't it? But you don't have to do it every day, is that right? Is he sleeping a consistent 2h morning nap off a 3h A time, then? By all means try the second nap at 3h15mins, I see you tried for 3h on 26th but perhaps he was UT and so didn't settle. So a 15min push would be a good place to start, see what happens for a few days and then push again if necessary. Would it work for you to move 'official' WU to 7:15am, perhaps, then shift the naps 15mins too so that he can have his pm nap at 3:30 without being OT? I can't decide what I think about his A to BT, that day when he had 3h then after a 2h nap, he'd also had a disturbed, short am nap, so I wondered if he might have had some OT left over from that?? I guess I'd try that 3h 15min second A time for a few days and just see what happens, note it down and that gives us a starting place, right?

[choc]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes he seems to be fairly consistent with the 2hrs am. Nap after 3hr A time. Sometimes A is longer but he is still in the cot in the dark.
I have been thinking myself that a 7.15 wu in the morning would help, but he doesn't ever seem to get there! He usually wakes before 7 and dozes on and off till 7.
I do not have to do the school run now for a couple of weeks as it is the school holidays, but one week we are actually away on holiday so I'm sure routine will go out the window.
I will start the school run again on 19th April and will have to do it everyday. So in my head I'm thinking I've got til then to get him on a routine with a 3.30+ pm nap.
I don't know how to get rid of the long night wakings though.  He has had a 2hr20 min A to bedtime on 40 min nap today which I know is rubbish but was the best I could do under today's circumstances. So we'll see how tonight goes.
Tomorrow I'm really hoping for a better day with no school run and a shorter A to bed, hoping pm nap will be 3.15 to maybe 4.45?!

[trimbler]

Yeah sorry that's why I said 'official' WU We did much the same with letting ours lie happily until whatever time we'd decided to get them up, but you could just shift that time to 7:15 and shift the rest of the day accordingly, as you would for a clock change, may get some OT for a few days but it's only a small shift so hopefully wouldn't take long to become the new normal?

Just remember there's hope - he pulled a great night recently, right? Did you try for a CN after that 40min nap? Could you use a sling or something to get one? I really did find that CN helpful during this phase, it doesn't even have to be long, but it does then add another A time but also help to prevent that build up of OT before BT, since they're a bit more rested. I think you need to allow for around 9.5-10h A time in total, counting any time awake in the cot before getting up in the morning at about half value (eg he wakes at 6 and you get him up 7 - consider that as about 30mins A time). So if you can't get that by BT without a long A time, try for a CN - wdyt?

[choc]

I could try to wait til 7.15 but to be honest it's a struggle keeping him in bed til 7! He has usually had enough by then so that's when we get him up but I would love 7.15 so I'll see if we can do it tomorrow.
I didn't try for a cn today because the 40 mins nap ended at about 4.20pm and I didn't think I could fit one in. Bedtime would have been 8pm +.
If he needs 9hr30 to 10hr A time a day, how does that work with 3hr ish A times? That makes for a long day doesn't it? What would that look like in EASY? Even on a good nap day I would need a cn to get that sort of Atime. Or have I got this all wrong?!

[choc]

So we had 2 good night's in a row, here are the easys for those days
29th
Wu 5.50
S 10 to 11.10 alarm woke him up
S 2 to 3.10 woke for school run
S 5.15 to 5.45 thought I'd try a cn and see
Bt 7.15 making  ot noises early evening
Slept through to 6.30 then dozed on and off til 7!!

30th
Wu 6.30/7
S 10 to 12
S 3.40 to 4.20 (put down at 3.30 due to school run)
Bt 6.40
Slept through with a couple of short wu that didn't need resettling!
Wu 6.45

Then last night was really bad after this day
31st
Wu 6.45
S 10 to 11.30
S 2.35 to 3.20
S put down at 4.50 but didn't sleep
Bt 6.50
Wu 3.30 on and off for the rest of the night

I'm thinking OT? I tried for a catnap for 45 mins but he wasn't having it, then hubby got held up at work which made it hard for me to do an earlier Bt. I did the best I could.

[trimbler]

Hey sorry couldn't get on yesterday to reply. Yk, I think you're both doing pretty well really I mean, those were two good nights, and you know why last night didn't work out so well, frustrating, but all part of this phase of course if you could have done EBT that might have worked out better but there's not much we can do about traffic, after all

Yeah about the A time thing - I just kind of plucked 9.5-10h out on the basis of one of those days you'd posted where things worked out nicely for the night. Actually now I see the 30th too, that was more like 9h, which of course works nicely for 3x 3h A times I suppose I'm encouraging you to look back and see how much sleep he tends to need overall - for some LOs, 15h sleep in 24h (ie 9h total A time) is unrealistic, they don't need quite so much, and if yours is one of those, he'll either need slightly longer A times, or a CN (to fit another A time into the day) or he'll make up for it by waking a bit early and playing a bit before you get him up, iyswim?

[choc]

Ok, that makes sense, I understand now thanks! So you agree it was an OT nw last night then? I am really hoping for better today but afternoons are so hard. Ds1 had a friend over to play after school so I am fully expecting  a short nap again due to over stimulation. I couldn't leave them unsupervised for too long to do a good wind down and he took more than 10 mins to drop off. We will see!
Thanks for your continued support.