Wakes six times per night!! I am going mad!

[Sherry B]

Hi there

DS turned 3 last week.  He has his own room and still sleeps in his crib.  He takes a solid 1 ½ – 2hr nap around 1pm either at home/daycare.

Night time is a real struggle though.  DS has never really been a good sleeper, even as an infant.  He is very sensitive to noise and wakes frequently (like the sound of joints cracking is enough to wake him up).  He has two older siblings who were always great sleepers, so I am not sure what I did wrong this time around    

Our bedtime routine starts at 7:45pm: toilet, brushing teeth, reading, lullabies, hugs etc.   He is usually out by 8:15-8:30pm.  He sleeps well until about 11pm, and then typically wakes every 60-90 minutes, and calls for us.  Typically DH gets up.  Although DS’ excuses vary (fix my blanket, I want water etc), he wants us to go inside his room and do something.  We can’t just stand behind the door… otherwise, he would start to cry.  The intervention only lasts about 30 seconds and then DH closes the door and leaves.  DS goes back to sleep by himself.  We have tried moving BT (earlier or later), but haven’t had any luck.  We have also tried with/without a daytime nap, and that hasn’t impacted the night wakings. 

The problem is that this occurs 5-6 times per night, so my husband is exhausted in the morning and has asked me to pitch in (so now, I get up about 2 times, DH gets up about 4 times).  DH has tried sleeping in my son’s room a few times, just to see whether it is some odd noise or something that is waking up DS (no such luck).  Typically, is DH is sleeping in my son’s room, DS will wake up, call for us then my husband - who is lying on a mattress next to him - will just say ‘shhhh…. I am here’ and then DS will go right back to sleep.  So my conclusion is that he does not actually need any water or his blanket to be fixed.

I keep telling DH that we need to change something… this just can’t keep going on.  On a good day, DH says ‘he’ll grow out of it’ or, on days where DH is particularly tired, he will say ‘I think we should just sleep in the basement and let him cry it out for a week and see what happens’. 

Any advice?  We are soooo tired all the time (it’s like I have a permanent headache) !! 

DH is going away for 3 weeks on a business trip.  I don’t think I can handle 3 kids + 6 NWs by myself!

Thx
Sherry

[jessmum46]

Hugs, that sounds tough

A few thoughts - how does he go to sleep at bedtime?  Are you in the room with him when he falls asleep?  What time does he wake up for the day? 

With the nap - how long (as in how many days) did you try without a nap or have you ever tried moving the nap later/cutting it down?  It strikes me that 1.5-2h may be a bit too much at this age on a regular basis and I wonder if that isn't helping?

Will look forward to your reply and hopefully we can come up with something

[Katet]

Hugs it's hard having a waking child (BTDT)

Just wondering where he fits in with the other 2 siblings & if it has become about a way to fill his "daddy cup time". How much 1:1 play time does he get with DH as maybe it is a case of him having the habit of checking DH is there as a means of spending time with his Dad.

[*Jo*]

Hi Hun. I'm in the same boat as ythe and except without a husband. 3 kids, two older ones are great sleepers but I'm up anywhere up to 12 times a night with youngest, he's also a sensitive to noise sleeper so we have white noise on. He calls for drink/dummy/hugs etc. I've got a thread on it just under yours. Last night I had a success (this has been going on for three months now and we are all exhausted!) I got him a night light that changes colours slowly and that seems to comfort him, he must focus on it when he wakes (cos I heard him wake a couple times last night and he put himself back to sleep! Yay!!) and with focusing on that he must forget about needing me!

I've also started a reward chart, we went and got stickers yesterday and I let him pick which ones he wanted. I explained how we all need our sleep to grow and be happy and this morning I praised him for sleeping in his bed all night and only needing me once (to turn the nightlight back on, he must've turned it off at some point) and he put the sticker on his chart. I'm hoping for more success tonight but I got a solid 7 hours with no calling out last night. Here's hoping what I've done can help you as well?

[Sherry B]

Hi there

Thanks for the advice.   The thing that bothers me the most is that when I'm tired, I tend to snap at the kiddies for no reason throughout the day and then I end up feeling really guilty (and tired!) :-(

So, to answer your questions:
I don't wait for DS to fall asleep before leaving the room.  He goes to sleep by himself.
He wakes up anywhere between 6:30-7:00am
He gets 1:1 time with me (20min in the morning and then 15min around 4:00pm)
Over Christmas, there was a lot of 1:1 time with DH (we were all on holiday for two weeks), no difference.
Daycare imposes the two hour nap.  Wind down starts at 12:30.  Most kids sleep between 1-3, so I follow the same pattern at home over the weekend or on vacation days.

DS is more clingy than the other two, and certainly more of the jealous type.

I've never thought of a reward chart...? Did it work for more than one day???

Thanks !!!

[*Jo*]

Yes I've been snapping at the other kids a lot, we are all so overtired. Asher also goes to sleep by himself. If he had a nap any longer than 30 mins he would be up til midnight! He had a 45 min nap the other day and it took me an hour and a half to get him to sleep.weve only done one day on the reward chart but he was talking about it when I picked him up from daycare today so hopefully it's stuck in his mind!

[Sherry B]

Hi there

Last night, I tried a later bedtime (9pm).  He still woke up 5 times, and then woke up for good around 6:30am.  How long do I have to ‘try’ new bedtimes before I can say that one worked?  I mean, is one night enough?

I can try going a little earlier (like 7:45pm) but that typically won’t work if he has had a good nap at daycare.  He’ll go quiet for a few minutes and then just keep calling for me until his regular 8:15pm bedtime.

Last night before bed, I did explain that there is no need to drink water in the middle of the night, and that I would give him plenty of water before bed.  He said fine.  When he called for me around midnight and asked for water, I said no…water is for daytime.  He said ‘ok, then just fix my blanket’, which I did.

I also talked about the reward chart… that we were going to buy stickers etc.  In the middle of the night, when he called, I told him that he couldn’t get his reward stickers if I enter his bedroom; he said ‘I don’t want stickers, I want you to come inside’.  Although maybe this is because we haven’t bought the stickers yet, so the reward isn’t tangible just yet.  I will give the chart another try tonight (with stickers in had) this time around.

Here is my philosophical question…  Is the intention that DS not wake up at all (so for example a long hot bath might help him get into a deeper sleep earlier in the first half of the night, or camomile tea or something like that), or that waking up is just going to be a natural 5-6 times and my objective is to get him to go back to sleep without needing me?  DH and I were both up from 2-4 am (we just couldn’t sleep) and DH brought up CIO again 

Also, I never thought of using a nightlight and always thought it was a distraction... ?  (i.e. would likely keep him up?)  I can give that a try too.  I am so desperate for a good night's sleep!!! 

Thanks,
Sherry

[*Jo*]

Sherry I'm right here with you. Last night was a dismal failure with Asher awake 6 times and one of those from 3am til 4:30am then again at 5am and then at 5:30am... He demanded the nightlight be turned off at 4:30am so I did.
This morning I said "I'm so sad! You don't get your sticker this morning!" He didn't seem to care too much but maybe over time he will get it. I'll continue with the reward chart regardless.

He was also demanding a drink of water, dummy, hug etc. I got so mad as he came running out of his room that I picked him up and threw him back into bed. I decided I needed to hold the door shut or I was going to hurt him, it was the safer option. I held that door for 15mins while he screamed the house down and woke his brothers. I continued to talk through the door saying "it's time for sleep, go to bed, goodnight" and finally he calmed and went back to bed to TALK TO HIMSELF!!!! then he cried. Like a real cry. So that's when I went back in, that cry was different and it needed my attention. I went in and lay him down and I said "mummy is very very tired, you have woken mummy up, and brothers and toys and we are all going to go back to sleep now"
He nodded his head, I said to him "I will keep your door open when you stay in your bed, if you get up then the door gets shut, so stay in bed and asleep and the door will stay open" he seemed to understand this and he went to sleep.... Eventually. He didn't get up, he just called out a couple times but I never went to him as it wasn't necessary

I dont consider what I did CIO as I'm against that, I feel it wasn't a NEED cry but a very demanding WANT cry, I trusted my instincts that he didn't need me and I waited for the right type of cry. It was also safer for him that I not go to him at that cry and it's not working when I do anyway.

I would not aim for no call outs, just that he stay in his own bed, until you feel he's "got it" then move it up a notch to "you can fix your own blanket at night" and have practise during the day. Expect him to protest at night still but stand firm. Last night when Asher asked for his drink bottle, I pointed to it and said "there it is, you know how to use it" and walked away. He threw a wobbly and I repeated myself a couple times. Once he saw I wasn't going to give it to him he did it himself.

Unfortunately for you I think the nap is the main issue. I've told preschool not to give Asher a nap as of this week. It's not worth the stress.

We are all miserable here today and grumpy and snapping at each other. Hopefully between us you and I can work this out!

[BstnMelody]

I have a different thread going, as I think mine's NW problem is OT from dropping the nap (just started afternoon nursery) BUT I wanted to chime in with some extra mama love because I'm equally sleep-deprived and it just sucks. I'm a mild insomniac from time to time, so when mine wakes, if it's after 2am, I'm up for the day, can't go back to sleep. So I really want a solution too!

A few thoughts on your situation:

1 - Have you tried a GRO clock or similar? It worked wonders for my daughter when we first got it. Over the holidays we were traveling and without it and I think my daughter has forgotten it's role, so I'm having to reintroduce it and remind her of what it means, but she does understand it, and it does help.

2. My DD does not want to be alone right now either and will think of any excuse to make me stay longer. And she gets me all day long, so it's not a needing mommy time thing. I think it's a toddler, I don't want to be alone thing. What I've been using the past few days that seems to help a little bit is checking on her after 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes. By the 10 minute mark she's usually back asleep without having seen me in a while. I'm hoping if I stay consistent with this, it will reinforce that she is safe, and I am around, and she doesn't need me to come in to fall asleep. I don't know yet whether it will help with the NW, but thought I'd share.

3. I am very clear about the things I'm saying to DD before she goes to bed. Always the same thing: Time for bed. I love you. I will check on you in 1 minute. And I will see you in the morning when it's wake-up time and the sun is on your clock. You need to stay in bed until the sun is up and then you can call for me. Not before then. I love you, and I'll check on you in 1 minute." And then in the repeated visits, "I'm so proud of you for staying in your bed. The star are up and it's sleepy time. I love you and I'll check on you in 5 minutes." Occasionally I get to the 10 minute check, but rarely. I'm hoping the consistent message of it's sleepy time, stay in your bed until the sun comes up will eventually sink in. And then in the morning, on the rare occasion she didn't call for me in the night I make a really big deal of it, and say how proud of her I am. If she did call for me, I say that I'm so tired because she woke me up, and tonight you can sleep all night without calling for me, etc.

4. For the weeks your DH is away, could you co-sleep? Maybe you don't want to go there, but I find when we co-sleep during traveling, and we get back home, it only takes a few nights for DD to go back to sleeping on her own again. And by that time your husband would be back. This might let you get some sleep when you most need it?

I hope something in here is helpful to you!

Stay strong, it can't last forever, can it?! ;-)

[Katet]

or that waking up is just going to be a natural 5-6 times and my objective is to get him to go back to sleep without needing me? 

This is more the case, we all go through light sleep cycles & the idea is for him to be able to pass through enough to not wake enough to need you, so its more a not needing you

‘I don’t want stickers, I want you to come inside’. 

To me that speaks volumes that he isn't getting his cup filled.

He gets 1:1 time with me (20min in the morning and then 15min around 4:00pm)

Who controls what happens in that time, do you choose or does he have 100% say on how that time is spent... the fact it is at a set time I also think makes it less 1:1 in terms of a child & more part of the routine, so I can actually see why he would be using that night time. I know with my 2 boys it's always been quite different how their 'mummy cup' gets filled... DS1 likes to engage in conversation & activity, DS2 likes physical connection & do the opposite & they are far more demanding, I remember someone saying once (& its true) often an activity we don't enjoy is the one our children want the most to feel they have their needs met... it isn't about what we think they need, but what they indicate they need.

DS is more clingy than the other two, and certainly more of the jealous type.

That's an unfortunate way to look at it, I'd say he has a greater physical emotional need than his siblings & when a child is described as jealous it is normally that the child is more observant & aware and I found to a degree with my own childhood & my own children it's more that they are the child that the parenting style is less in tune with... have you read about the Love Languages, http://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/children/ I found that when I realised what mine was & my children's I had a greater understanding of why I was the 'more needy' child growing up & how to best respond to both my children.  I used that knowledge a lot with the 12 children I "parented" & it was noticeable how that knowledge did help when I worked out each child's way to feel connected.

The one thing I stand by 100% is that children show their needs for love & attention in the least desirable ways & often its about flipping the question from "how can I improve this sleep" to " what do we need to change for him so he feels he is getting his Mummy cup filled & doesn't need me at night"

[Sherry B]

Ok, really interesting comments.  It gives me a lot to think about.

1:1 time is in the morning (before daycare and after the other two have gone off to school).  He decides what we do (usually reading, puzzles or he just plays with my hair) and I jusg follow his lead, even if it's not my favourite game 

DH and I decided to both up the 1:1 time, so a little more from me in the morning and at least 20-30min alone with DH in the evening.  Interestingly, with daddy, it's usually playing Legos while I do homework with the other two or chores.

I'm also curious about the GRO clock... I talked to DS again and told him that I need my sleep to be energetic in the morning.  My eldest even told DS that he'd lend him one of his Ninja Legos if he sleeps through the night without calling out for one of us.  We will see if this reward is more effective!

Thanks to all of you wonderful ladies for your advice.  Much appreciated.  I'm going to make some tweaks and send an update hopefully tomorrow,

Sherry

[Sherry B]

BstnMelody : Thanks for the info on all the things you tell your child (all the throughout explanations).  I tried that last night.

Katet: Lots of mommy, daddy and grandma 1:1 time yesterday, doing exactly what DS asked for.

*Jo*: I tried the reward chart again (with newly purchased colorful happy face stickers that he can choose from).

jessmum46: We skipped the afternoon nap altogether.  He seemed to be not too tired, so we gave it a try.

Result: Only 1 NW !!! Awesome!  DH and I just couldn't believe it!  We both woke up around 3am in awe... I managed to go back to sleep but DH wasn't so lucky.  He is going to have to re-program his sleeping habits too 

I am crossing my fingers for tonight!!!  I hope it wasn't just beginner's luck.  Thanks to all of you for your terrific advice.

Sherry 

[*Jo*]

Yay!!!! Fingers crossed for another great night!