19 months old: trouble with set naps, EWs, NWs

[FroggyMom]

Well, it seems as if my posts are always on the sleeping board!  DD is now almost 18 months old (next week). She has been an independent sleeper since about 4 months old and slept wonderfully until she turned 12 months old. Since that time, we have really struggled with 30-40 minute naps, NWs and EWs. It seems as if there will be a period of 4-7 days where she may nap ok and sleep through the night without waking, and I get excited as if we have finally made a breakthrough!  However, it never seems to last. 😓 

I will most the schedule I try to follow most days when I can for you to take a look at:

Wake up: she wakes anywhere between 5:45 - 6:45 am most days but I don't let her out of her crib until at least 6:30 am
E 7:15 am breakfast
E 9:15 am snack
E 11:15 am lunch
S 12 - 1:15 pm (her naps lately have been anywhere from 1 to 1.5 hours usually with the most common being 1 hr 15 min and rarely had a 2 hour nap)
E 2:15 pm snack
E 5:15 pm dinner
E 6:30 bedtime sippy of milk
S 7 pm (on the bed but usually asleep around 7:15 pm)

First of all, does this look like a normal
schedule for an almost 18 month old or does something look really off?  I have tried adjustments everywhere I can think of for the past 6 months and no one thing really seems to help. I eventually gave up and thought it is something we will just have to wait out....but I'm exhausted!!!!  I have been trying to do a set nap at 12 pm no matter what time she wakes recently as a set nap was suggested to me for her age instead of going by wake times now.

She has been waking at night around 4:30 am or so. Last night, she was up from 4:45 -5:45 am and went back to sleep until 7 am. She was just laying in bed bed whining until I would go in and use the sleepy phrase. Every time I left thought, she would wait a few minutes and get upset again....sometimes standing up and crying. If she wakes at 5:30 am or after doing this, she usually can not be resettled. As far as naps, she almost always wakes in the middle after 40-50 min or so...sometimes I can resettle her and sometimes not. She still takes a pacifier only for sleeping. Do you think this is ok or may be part of our problem with sleeping?

The sleepless nights are really wearing on me and DH now as well. As I've mentioned previously, I have an autoimmune disorder that requires me to get plenty of rest to feel okay so I've been feeling pretty weak again lately. Also, we have been discussing wanting to TTC again soon. We both want another child; however, I'm not sure how my already tired body will handle it at this point!  I'm sorry if I'm rambling...I'm typing on my phone as I sit on carpool line waiting for DS as this seems to be the only chance I have to do it lately!!!  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!  Thanks so much!!!!

[jessmum46]

We have the same routine - DS is 19 months.  Set nap at 12 and BT at 7pm However he will typically sleep 1h45-2h30 for nap and usually wakes after 6am, closer to 6.30 all being well.  However we do (not infrequently ) go through periods like you are describing. For DS that pattern would be a combination of OT and something not quite right in his little world - so a cold, teeth, random developmental sleep regression thing can all set him off.  I'm wondering if you could do with throwing in a bit early nap or bedtime for a day or two and see where that gets you?  Also have you tried medicating even as a one off in case canines/molars are on the move? Canines were totally miserable here, now in midst of 2y molars which don't seem *quite* so awful but getting the shorter naps and early wakings/unsettledness again ((hugs)) hope it settles for you soon x

[FroggyMom]

Katherine, thank you for your quick response!!!  I'm sorry I'm just now getting a minute to write nack in carpool line again today...haha!  I'm glad to know that your LO has pretty much the same schedule as mine. I was starting to wonder if maybe I was way off base!  I used to think DD was just LSN but now I feel that she is probably OT a lot of the time. As you mentioned, we have also been battling teeth, a cold, and an ear infection in the past weeks. When she is noticeably teething, I do give her Tylenol before bedtime. Sometimes this helps her sleep a bit better but still not great I would say. This last time I had her sleeping well for about 4 days straight, and then she developed a cold/ear infection. Sigh. She is still on antibiotics, but I do think we are on the back end of it now...I hope!

I know all these things can affect sleep; however, I feel like we have battled these same problems for the past 6 months....whether she is well, teething, or feeling bad. That is why I wondered if I needed to change anything. I know you said to maybe try early nap or bedtime for a few days. What time would you suggest if I tried this?  This is her day today:

Bed last night: 7 pm and asleep at 7:10 pm
Wake up:  5:35 am (took me 20 min to settle her and back to sleep until 7 am)
Nap: 11:57 am - 1:24 pm (1 hr 27 min without waking or needing to be resettled)

Also, any suggestions on how to lengthen her nap?  I keep thinking it will just happen eventually after transitioned to 1 nap but it never has really!!!!  Thanks again!

[FroggyMom]

Sorry to hear your DS is teething and unsettled!!!  Teething is definitely rough for us when it comes along as well!  With DS (who is 6 now), I never even knew he was getting teeth until they were already in!  It's funny how two kids from the same family can be so different! 

[jessmum46]

I wonder if your best bet would be to stick with your set nap time but pull in bedtime 30 mins earlier or so after a short nap?  Or even just for a few days?  I agree it sounds like OT - DS often does this where he gets a 10.5h or so night +/- a bit of a resettle, then a nap of around 1.5h.  Eventually he just seems to crash for a long nap and sort himself out it if your LO isn't doing that I guess you may need to offer the extra sleep somewhere else.  Are you waking at 7am or was that a natural wake?

[FroggyMom]

Are you waking at 7am or was that a natural wake?

The last post I made where she woke early at 5:35 am and I resettled her until 7 am....that was a nature wake.  She is just SO unpredictable!!!  After I posted she took a 1 hr 27 min nap that day without needing to be resettled, she fell asleep at 7:05 pm that night.  Then, yesterday morning she woke up at 7 am!!!!  That was the first time she slept 12 hours without waking in SO long!  So, this happens where I think she is sorted out but it doesn't last.  I can keep the same exact routine....but it just doesn't last, and I can't figure out why.

After the 12 hour night, she took a nap for about 1 hr 20 min or so yesterday and fell asleep at 7:10 pm or so.  She again woke up at 5:35 or so this morning, and it took DH until 6 am to resettle her.  She then slept until she naturally woke up at 7:15 am.  For nap today, she slept 1 h 29 min.  I usually just let her up at this point as she usually won't resettle after a nap of this length.  However, I did try again today just to see what happened.  It took me 12 minutes to resettle her, and she went back to sleep for about 20-25 min or so.  Another issue I have with the naps is that I have to leave at 1:30 pm to pick up DS from carpool (DH was off work and able to get him today....that's why I was able to try to resettle at nap...but usually I just let her up when wakes because we have to be heading to carpool anyway)  It's so tough!!!

agree it sounds like OT - DS often does this where he gets a 10.5h or so night +/- a bit of a resettle, then a nap of around 1.5h. 

This seems like DD's typical day as of late.  I have actually started to believe a 1.5 hour nap was awesome for her and may be her max because we were stuck at 30-45 minutes for so long...so 1.5 hours seemed better.  There were two days last week where she did actually nap 2 hours...I even had to wake her one day so not sure how long she would've slept.  It actually seems like she sleeps worse on nights where she randomly takes a 2 hour nap though.  I'm just so unsure where to go from here. I've tried to stick to 12 pm nap and 7 pm bedtime and hope that she sorts herself out...but maybe I need to make a tweak.  Do you think after the day I described today that today would be a good day to try BT at 6:30 pm?

Also, does your DS take a pacifier? My DD takes only...only for sleeping.  She is able to put it back in herself at her age at night.  However, sometimes it does fall out of the crib where she can't reach it.  Do you think these wakes could have to do with her pacifier?  Is it time to wean?  Thanks again for all of your help!

[jessmum46]

Hi and sorry not to have got back to you sooner.  How are things?

I get you about sticking with the routine and things not really being the same.  As I said we have set nap and bedtime but if I'm honest, WU and nap length can vary quite a bit as can whether we have NWs or not.  I wonder if there's some UT/OT loop going on somewhere but haven't quite got it figured out.....that said it's predictable as in I know when nap time and bedtime are so that's kind of routine enough for me right now. 

Hmm that 1.30pm leaving the house is tough. It doesn't really give long enough for a proper one nap does it?  Would your LO go down for a nap earlier than 12?  Just wondering if a short morning A and long afternoon A might work for a while and actually give a better shot at a long nap?

Oh and no, DS doesn't have a pacifier.  Never has had.  He has a lovey though which sometimes falls out of he can't find.....I do have to retrieve that occasionally!

[FroggyMom]

Hi!  Sorry it has been so long since I have posted!  DD was doing better with her napping/sleeping for a couple weeks but we seem to be moving back towards 1 hour naps and 11 hour nights (and I don't think 12 hour total sleep is enough do her).  She seems to be getting into another OT loop. 😢

For a little while, she was napping 1 hr 30-50 min maybe. Every once in awhile she would take a 2 hour nap or bit longer. She was also sleeping a full 12 hours at night so was getting about 13.5 hours sleep a day. She seemed to do good with this amount. We did naps at 12 pm and bedtime at 7 pm. The only thing I have noticed this week is that she seemed to be getting another tooth. Sigh. This always seems to disrupt our routine. I thought it had come through though, and her naps are getting worse and worse still. They have been about 1 hour 10-20 minutes this week...but only 55 min today. 😢

She is 19 months old now. With a wake up time of between 6:15-7 am (she is so unpredictable), would you still say that nap at 12 pm is reasonable. Or at what age/wake up time would you start to push nap back?  Yes, having to leave at 1:30 pm to pick up DS from school does make naps difficult. However, she has been waking before I have to leave anyway lately. She doesn't have to come with me for carpool everyday as she stays with MIL or DH a couple days a week (she probably comes with me twice a week right now). I'm not sure if she would agree to nap earlier than noon but I haven't tried that in a long time.

It's just so hard when she seems to fall into a good routine for 2-3 weeks ten it seems as if we go right back to square one. Sigh. Any advice?

[jessmum46]

If it's teeth, not a lot you can do but ride it out really for now. I wouldn't change things just yet until that's properly settled.

Personally, I think a 12pm nap is still totally fine for that age and WU time.  My feeling would be if you were getting nap resistance, that's the time to push later.  Or possibly with happy EWs, though equally shortening the nap a bit could solve that.  We are still managing a 12(ish) nap here with a typical 6.30ish WU, though he'll still go down by 12.15ish on the rare days he sleeps later.

[FroggyMom]

Yes, DD does always have sleep disruptions when teething. However, she is no longer teething, and we are still having issues with sleeping. She was a great sleeper up until about a year old. We have had issues with short naps and EWs since that time though. Are some children just never great sleepers?  My DS was always a good sleeper and slept typical amounts of time for his age. However, I feel like I just can't figure DD out!  Sigh.

She has now returned to waking early at 5:30 am. 😢 I have tried putting her to bed later (about 7:30 pm) and earlier (about 6:30 pm) but neither helped. She wakes at 5:30 am no matter what. The last time this happened it lasted several weeks and nothing I did helped. She just stopped doing it one day. Her naps are also going downhill again. She has been napping about 1 hour-1 hr 20 min. I just don't feel like she's getting enough sleep but can't figure out what to do. Yesterday, she woke up at 5:30 am and only took a 45 min nap...so I had her asleep by 6:20 pm...and she actually slept until 6:50 am this morning!  I couldn't believe it!  Her exhaustion must have finally caught up with her. She did cry out around 5:30 am but went right back to sleep on her own. She only took a 1 hr 10 min nap again today though. So I'm just not sure what to do. Do I continue with early bed time when she doesn't nap well?  But I don't want to encourage her to move her whole day earlier...so I'm just not sure?  Thanks for all of your help!

[jessmum46]

Is she low sleep needs do you think?

[FroggyMom]

I used to think she may be low sleep needs. But, I no longer think so because I notice she is grumpy and tired acting when doesn't get the amount of sleep I think she needs. I do think she's probably in the lower range of normal though.

The time changed where we lived about a week and a half ago, and she's actually sleeping better at night! I'm not sure if it is because it is darker in her room in the mornings now or what, but she has been waking around 7 am (rather than 5:30 am)!!!!  I've still had trouble with naps though. I did notice something the past few days that I wanted to ask you about. Due to u unforeseen circumstances, I was not able to get her to sleep until 12:45 pm yesterday (instead of 12 pm). She was still asleep at 3 pm....so I woke her up!!!  I couldn't believe she slept that long and wasn't sure how long to let her sleep before it would disturb her night sleep. She did wake once after about 1 hr 10 min. It took about 10 min to resettle her. Then, today we were back to nap at 12 pm. She woke at 1:16 pm. So 1 hr 16 min (which is about what she usually naps) but it was all uninterrupted. However. I forgot to mention yesterday when she slept so long at nap she had more trouble and took longer to fall asleep that night. Would you take this to mean I need to push her nap later than 12 pm?  Or if she is still falling asleep quickly at 12 pm...maybe she just slept longer at 12:45 pm because exhausted from being up later than used to?  Thanks!

[jessmum46]

I would take that probably as needing to push her nap a touch later, perhaps not as late as on that day but maybe 12.15 for a while and see how you go.  That seems to be the direction we are heading in too x