Bottle as a prop... won't self soothe

[Anders45]

My twins are almost 14 months. I feel like we usually have a pretty good schedule during the day. Wake up around 6.30-7.00, they go down for their nap anywhere between 11 and 12 and wake up around 1.30, then we put them to bed around 7 (depending on how they are acting). The problem is that they are still waking up at 12, 3, and 5. And they are SOO tired. They don't wake up and want to play, they wake up and whine, like they can't get back to sleep or something. At 12 I can usually just lay them back down or give them a binky (depending on the twin), but at 3 and 5 they won't go back to sleep without their bottle (and they drink maybe 1-2 ounces). When we started giving them bottles in the night they were both teething and they both had head colds and we were all miserable, so one of you lovely ladies suggested letting them suckle on the bottles because it would help soothe them, particularly when they were having such a hard time and noted that it would be easy enough to get them off it when they were better. So that's what I did and it worked and they slept and it helped calm them down and life was great for that week. But now they won't go back to sleep without the bottle and a little cuddle time. I don't think I would mind too much, except there are two and I'm pregnant so I pretty much want to hurl when I wake up at 3 and 5, so hubby takes over and he really needs his sleep for work...

I don't know what to do to get them off the bottle at night! Oh, and they only drink from a bottle half an hour or so before they go to sleep (so they aren't falling asleep on it) and then in the middle of the night (again, they aren't falling asleep on it, it just calms them down). One will take a binky, but only if he is already relatively calm, the other won't at all, though he chews on his thumb (which is also nervewracking for me)... anyways... I could really use some input. Tracy doesn't cover this in the book of hers that I own.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

At the age they are the wakings are obviousy not hunger related (or they would take more!) so tbh I would go cold turkey on the bottles (but I am impatient like that ). For the lo who takes a soother - do you want to carry on with that? Not much you can do about the thumbsucker but tbh it is not a big deal - my middle DD sucked her thumb and gave it up all on her own eventually. Do they have loveys? What is the room environment? White noise etc? 

[Anders45]

They do have loves. They both have a fluffy blanket they cuddle up with ( it's really cute!). But at night it doesn't do much to comfort them, not immediately. Maybe that's my problem... I'm not giving it enough time. But it sure is hard that early in the morning with them screaming their lungs out. How would you best suggest going cold turkey? Just not giving them bottles obviously, but to help them get back to aleep, what would you suggest? I'm all out of ideas. Just holding them to calm them down hasn't been working the last couple of weeks since reintroducing the bottle at night. Thanks for your quick response!

[Anders45]

oh, and the room is dark, minus a little night light (they freak out). And there is a humidifier that goes all night that creates a little white noise.

[Anders45]

K, in case anyone is still reading this/can help me:

So last night the twins slept really well until about 3:30. I'm convinced that baby b would have slept through the night if he wouldn't have been woken by his brother. I tried going cold turkey with baby a. When he started sounding like he wouldn't go back to sleep, I went in to help him. He was sitting up, so I laid him down. He rolled into his first tummy, so I put his lovey over him and rubbed his back until he stopped fussing. I then left the room to hee the bathroom. Less than a minute later he started fussing again and then screaming. So I picked him up until he calmed down (ten minutes later) and laid him back in his pack n play and rubbed his back/stomach/side until he calmed down again (20minutes later). He was calm for about 30 seconds then started to scream again. So I tried the pd method and he would have none of it. Needless to say an hour after he woke up he was getting more upset, and as soon as he had his bottle he quieted down and drank 3 oz. I then put him back in his pack n play where he fell asleep. I maybe would have tried longer to get him to sleep, but he had woke his brother who was now screaming too and I felt bad for our downstairs neighbors.

He woke up at 6.00 and hubby gave him a bottle and laid him next to me so he could get breakfast ready and leave for work and me and the twins all slept until about 7.30 (this isn't part of our normal routine, p.s.).

What am I doing wrong, or what can I do differently? Thank you!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Hey there...had a night out last night so did not get a chance to do more than read some posts

Have you ever tried a drink of water at night insted of the bottle? (or well in the bottle!) I can see where having downstairs neighbours makes sleep training tough. I have never used pu/pd as my kids are all pretty spirited and I knew it would just incite rage lol. We did more gradual withdrawal and wi/wo when they were older.

So when they wake do they start crying right away? Or is it that you hear them and go to intervene before it gets to that point?

[Anders45]

I haven't tried just water. Not sure why I haven't thought of that. And it depends on the night. Sometimes they wake up screaming and other nights they wake up and chatter. I usually wait to see if they are going to fall back to sleep before intervening (they do that sometimes too, just put themselves back to sleep). and the last couple nights they've had dirty diapers at 5, so we've changed them (if we don't their bums start to bleed).

What do you do with wi/wo? Besides just walking in, then back out. Do you do anything to soothe them? Like lay them back down? Do you stay out for a specific amount of time, or until they seem like they are really upset?

I'm glad you got a night out. Everyone needs that! Thanks again for your help!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

For wi/wo if they can lay down themselves I would not lay them down...but then my DD3 knows I only get her up if she is ill so she lays in bed and yells! So I go in and tuck her back in if needed, say "it's still nighttime, go back to sleep" and walk out. I go right back if she cries. If she is really upset I sit by her crib for a few min (lol but a lot of times I used to fall asleep on the rug without meaning too!) and then try and leave.

The dirty diapers at 5 am would be one more reason to stop the overnight feeds - perhaps they would not poo until later if that is the case!

[Anders45]

Ok! So I work early tomorrow morning, but I will try wi/wo tomorrow night and see how it goes. And the whole night feeding making them poop earlier makes sense. What if I offered the bottle but had water in it tonight and see how that goes and then start the Wi/wo tomorrow night?

I'll let you know how it goes and maybe we can tweak things if needed. Oh and they can lay themselves back down, so just walk in, maybe carries their forehead, say it's time to go to bed, then walk out. And keep doing that until they are asleep? And if they are screaming, just sit by the bed, or stand over the bed where I can put a hand on them or something? What if they are REALLY upset? Like passing out they are crying so hard?

Thanks!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

If they get that upset get them up out of bed, no sleep training is worth it for that kind of upset. At their age I would do both things in one go (bottle and wi/wo) but also talk to them about it during the day - even if they aren't big talkers they might have good receptive language skills and it may help a bit (or not but totally worth a try!)

[Anders45]

So I meant to respond. The first two nights they just slept through the night... Like, I didn't even wake up to whimpers, which is odd. The last couple nights they've had nasty colds, so I've put it on hold for a bit and am giving them bottles and cuddles while they are up coughing and getting the mucus out of their throats. Poor littles! It looks like it'll clear up in a few more days thoug, and I'll give it another go then. I'll let you know how it goes! Thank you again for your input.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Aww poor guys! Lots of healthy vibes xx