Author Topic: 5mo refuses to sleep!  (Read 999 times)

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Offline Adelheid

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5mo refuses to sleep!
« on: January 20, 2016, 09:21:06 am »
Going down for naps is a catastrophe and they last 45min at best. I've tried to extend naps and have never succeeded in getting her to fall back to sleep.
She is an angel baby but lately she no longer goes to sleep easily. Sometimes she will coo in her bed happily, but lately its more crying than anything.
Her A time is now 2.5hrs as I haven't had any success with less A time.
Feeling really discouraged.
At night too, she wakes up multiple times though I have been able to only feed her twice. Here too, I REALLY want to drop NF but feel like she goes crazy hunting for something to suck on. -One of her feeds at 5:30am is quite regular, so it makes me think its just a habit waking not a need.
Now I'm off to try to get her to sleep for a nap.  :-\

Offline Adelheid

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Re: 5mo refuses to sleep!
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 09:38:13 am »
I should add that I'm trying to do a 4hr EASY but can't seem to get to that 4hr mark.
Usually her EAS is like this
7am WU/E
9:30am S (45min)
10:30 E

So she is essentially on a 3.5h EASY routine though there is usually lots of A time before her E as her sleep is rarely more than 45min.

Just now, she skipped her nap all together. I tried for about an hour to get her down with PU/PD but gave up after an hour as I couldn't keep forcing my 2 year old to watch shows and stay out of the room. I feel so frustrated.
She is an angel baby so even being tired right now doesn't make her cranky. Instead she just wants to be carried around and is will coo and smile despite going without sleep.

My question is then also, on times like this, do I continue on with the schedule or do I feed and then put her down as feeding will surely maker her tired. If I put her down, her schedule will be all wacko the rest of the day like SAE. Or, do I feed her and keep her up for her usual A time (or a shortened version?) ???

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5mo refuses to sleep!
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 21:35:40 pm »
Hi there, this all sounds very common at this age. I had short nappers too but ended up staying much saner second time around as I'd always use the sling for one nap (the second, in our case) so that I could get out with DS and not worry about whether she'd take a long or short nap - she'd go longer more reliably in the sling, but even if she did a short one, she'd resettle more easily than in the cot. I just wondered if you could do anything like this with sling/pram, especially since you have a 2yo?

As a general rule, I'd shorten the A time following a short nap if you can, although IME you can probably get away with more if using a sling or something like that, if you have to. Whether that means going down as soon as she's finished feeding depends on things like how long she takes to feed. With my DS, who struggled with short naps for ages, he didn't actually need to feed more frequently than 4h at this age, and wouldn't take a good one if much less than that, but his wake/sleep cycle was 3.5h at best. I could sometimes get him back off again after a short nap by spending ages shh patting, but using the sling for the second nap meant that we could do a kind of staggered routine, kind of:

6:30 Up and E
8:30 - 10 Nap (not usually asleep for all this time, but I'd try to resettle)
10:30 E
11:45ish - 1:30ish Nap in sling
2:30 E
3:30-4:15/4:30 nap
4:30 E (cluster)
5:30 BT feed (long) and BT

I can't remember it exactly and your LO will have different A times (mine were short A bubbas), but you get the idea? Of course yours may need feeding more often, that's fine too - many LOs never actually stretch to 4h intervals between feedings, and if they take longer naps they often need topping up before the nap to prevent waking early from hunger. It's also fine for the third nap to be longer if previous naps were short, however some LOs this age will need it to be a CN, there really is a wide range of A times at this age.

Just thinking of ways to take the pressure off you - perhaps pick one nap where you do try and resettle in the cot and one where you APOP, then there's the CN which doesn't need to be long anyway.

There's a big sleep regression for all babies around 4mo which many 5mo (and their parents!) are still very much feeling the effects of. Has she ever self settled? How do you usually get her to sleep? Have you used shh pat at all? PUPD should really only be used as a last resort if other things (eg shh pat) haven't worked, and always in conjunction with soothing in the cot, at this age especially. In case you haven't read them, have a look at these:

Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!
Shush-pat - How to

Tbh two night feeds is pretty normal at this age, especially if bf - is she bf or ff? I'd continue doing as you're doing for the meantime. It may well be that the 5:30am WU is routine related, if it seems to be habitual, so you never know, it may phase out naturally with some routine tweaks...

Please could you post a whole day's routine? That way we may have other ideas for suggestions for you :-*

Oh and another thought - when you're carrying her around and she's smiling and cooing etc and not going to sleep, is that in a sling, trying to deliberately get her to sleep? Mine both got to a point, certainly by 5mo but I think earlier than that, where they needed some of the sling material over their face a bit (obviously making sure they were breathing freely!) to block out the visual stimulation, otherwise they just couldn't switch off.

Sorry this is a bit garbled, hope you can make sense of it as feel like I'm jumping around everywhere :P ((hugs)) this age is tough, especially with an older LO - even I found that a challenge and my older one was 4yo!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 21:39:18 pm by trimbler »



Offline Adelheid

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Re: 5mo refuses to sleep!
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016, 20:02:01 pm »
Hi
So her schedule is sorta this:
WU/E 7:30
S 10 (45min)
E 11:30
S 2 (45min)
E 3:30
S.... um, this sometimes happens, sometimes not. So if it does, it would be a like 30-45min around 4:30ish
E 6
BT 6:30
DF 10

I've bumped up her A time (2h 45min) and had her go to sleep more easily. However, her naps are rarely longer than 45min. The middle of the day nap, I've tried re-settling her with varied success. Sometimes she will and then she sleeps 1.5hrs. However, then there is no CN in this case.

Last night was an other ever two hour wake-up night. No fun. I have had her in a sling for naps, which seems to work well except if it entails going in or out of the house- winter clothes etc. Anyway, haven't quite figured out how to maneuver with her in it too well.

Ok, so its at least not abnormal to have short naps. Her doctor said I should just be happy that she sleeps, regardless of how much. -I guess.  :-\ She's soooooo happy when she's had a long nap.

Offline Amytheo

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Re: 5mo refuses to sleep!
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 20:21:13 pm »
I can't offer you any advice I'm afraid but  watching with interest as to what people suggest as it sounds exactly like my little one! He will only sleep for 45 mins and never in his cot during the day (he has reflux and hated being laid down so we put him in a chair during the day) and wakes every 2-2.5hrs at night.
I'm currently trying the "drowsy but awake" thing at night but only on day 3 and struggling. My plan was to try and sort the night and then work on the day.
Mine is also the same in that he seems so happy during the day I'm almost convinced there isn't really a problem and he doesn't need more sleep, until it's night time and the wake ups start!

Offline Adelheid

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Re: 5mo refuses to sleep!
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 20:37:03 pm »
Amytheo, this is a tough stage! Must be personality related. My DS didnt seem to get so stuck on the three hour routine.

My DD will often wake up for her DF too. Argh. So frustrating.
Also, when I put her to bed for naps or BT, I have a short wind down routine but then its "off-to-bed-you-go". I don't engage her much after that. I will do one Pu/Pd if she is really fussy (and have found its usually because of a remaining burp).

At night, she's in the crib next to me, so I wonder if I react to quickly when she pipes up. I get so nervous that my toddler will wake up or my husband. Maybe I should put her in our closet?

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5mo refuses to sleep!
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 20:03:33 pm »
Hmm that's interesting, I really wonder whether she's heading for the 3-2 nap transition, 5mo would be on the earlier end but certainly not unheard of. Mine were short A LOs so didn't get there until more like 8-9mo :P but anyway, have a read of this and see what you think, let me know if it sounds like where you are now, or rather, where you think she might like to be? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

What are the NWs like? Timings? Feedings? Crying or happy? Etc... Might help to confirm whether she does need her A times stretched or if she's more likely to be OT.

Have you tried a shorter A time after that first 45min nap? Looks like she does about 3h15 after that, which is quite a long time after a short nap and it's possible that the second nap might be OT, the first one may well be UT.

I know what you mean about manoeuvring with the sling! I was never good at it myself, mostly stuck to walking around outside rather than trying to do jobs around the home. One thing I'd do during cold weather would be to wrap a fleece blanket around the sling before going out - oh and even better, I borrowed one of DH's cardigans which I could zip up over DD in the sling, that was really snug and could be easily unzipped once we got back inside ;)