Help please! Separation anxiety - Wi/wo???

[KaylaJo]

Hi All. I am having some serious issues with my 13 month old. I believe it to be separation anxiety. I need some help, support, and a plan.

A little background first:  I'm new here but am familiar with Baby Whisperer. I mostly followed the general guidelines of Baby Wise since my son was a few months old, but the schedule system is very similar to Baby Whisperer. My son has been an excellent sleeper. I have worked hard to instill healthy sleep habits since he was young- a good schedule, bedtime routine, no rocking/feeding to sleep, he knows how to self soothe and sleeps 11-12 hours a night. I put him down awake and he always falls asleep without complaint within 10 minutes. I didn't do CIO for night time (didn't need to) but I did around 6 months do what I think you call pu/pd here. I would leave the room for 5 minutes and then come back in, comfort, lay back down, repeat until he fell asleep. It didn't take much time at all or visits for him to start taking naps like a champ as well.

The problem: Up until last week he was taking 2 naps with no issue. Then all of a sudden he began crying when I put him down. It was not consistent so I shrugged it off to teething. It started getting worse even when he had some pain reliever for known teething. I took him into the pediatrician to rule out any health issues. He is fine but is working on his molars. Since our visit, things have regressed even more. Every nap time and bedtime is consistently a struggle. He screams and cries until I get him. As soon as I pick him up he snuggles in and closes his eyes. As soon as I try to put down again he screams again. He does whimper or cry a little at bedtime, but not as bad. Once asleep at night he will sleep for the full 11-12 hours still. (knock on wood!)

I came across this site and this particular post about the Walk In/ Walk Out method. Separation Anxiety  Given our circumstances do you all think this would be the best method to help my little guy through this struggle? I hesitate do do any crying - even for just a few minutes- because I feel like that would worsen the separation anxiety. But I also do not want to start bad habits by holding, rocking, or laying with him to go to sleep. Please share your knowledge and experience with me. I plan to get the book and read more thoroughly into this, but I need to implement a plan now that will work for my LO and me.

Thanks in Advance.

[trimbler]

Hi there and welcome to BW forums

You may well be seeing SA, it's a tough age for that and you're right that you'll need to give him lots of reassurance and help strengthen the bond of trust between you, so that he learns that he can trust you to respond to him when he needs you, even when he can't see you. Can I just ask how he's currently going to sleep? Do you end up holding him to get him to sleep, or putting him down but staying with him, or leave him until he's asleep, or something in between?

I'm not sure if you followed the link from the article you mentioned to this one: Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE) but it describes both the wi/wo method as applied to toddlers, and also the gradual withdrawal method, which may be better for you if he's become really distraught about being left by you. Have a read if you haven't already and see what you think. If you do decide on wi/wo, please bear in mind that if he's crying really upset "I need you" cries, you don't wait a set amount of time, but you return immediately and do whatever he needs to calm down, ideally not picking up but it may be that you have to. Then back down again if necessary and back out...and back in...etc. Yes it may feel silly but it's really important to teach him that he really can trust you to return and that he doesn't have to worry. Eventually he'll realise that although he'll have to go to sleep on his own, you are still right there and will come when he needs your reassurance - does that make sense? If you try this for a few days but he's still really distraught, you may need to 'cave' and stay with him, help to soothe him to sleep, and then you'd use gradual withdrawal to wean him from that. Keep us posted and we'll walk with you  

We don't support any form of CIO or CC (ie waiting set amounts of time before comforting) here but we do encourage listening to our LO's cries and hanging back if they sound like they're settling themselves or responding to them if they need us, including their need for comfort. [As an aside, what we call PU/pd is actually staying with them by their side, giving verbal and/or physical reassurance. We'd only leave them once we know they're settling themselves, and return if they get upset. Neither PU/PD nor wi/wo are based on set time intervals, rather they're about listening and responding to our LO's cries ]

On a completely different note, 13mo is usually somewhere in the middle of the 2–1 nap transition. Would you mind posting your current routine - not just what you're aiming for but what actually happens, as we may be able to suggest a few tweaks which could help him to settle and sleep better

Oh, and another thought - did things get worse when you started giving pain meds? It's just that I've heard of some LOs who find that ibuprofen actually gives them really painful stomach cramps; other LOs find it much more effective than paracetamol , so I'm not saying don't give it, just something to be aware of in case it has this effect on him.

[sszskristy]

I just posted a similar topic. The same age!

[KaylaJo]

Hi there and welcome to BW forums

You may well be seeing SA, it's a tough age for that and you're right that you'll need to give him lots of reassurance and help strengthen the bond of trust between you, so that he learns that he can trust you to respond to him when he needs you, even when he can't see you. Can I just ask how he's currently going to sleep? Do you end up holding him to get him to sleep, or putting him down but staying with him, or leave him until he's asleep, or something in between?

I'm not sure if you followed the link from the article you mentioned to this one: Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE) but it describes both the wi/wo method as applied to toddlers, and also the gradual withdrawal method, which may be better for you if he's become really distraught about being left by you. Have a read if you haven't already and see what you think. If you do decide on wi/wo, please bear in mind that if he's crying really upset "I need you" cries, you don't wait a set amount of time, but you return immediately and do whatever he needs to calm down, ideally not picking up but it may be that you have to. Then back down again if necessary and back out...and back in...etc. Yes it may feel silly but it's really important to teach him that he really can trust you to return and that he doesn't have to worry. Eventually he'll realise that although he'll have to go to sleep on his own, you are still right there and will come when he needs your reassurance - does that make sense? If you try this for a few days but he's still really distraught, you may need to 'cave' and stay with him, help to soothe him to sleep, and then you'd use gradual withdrawal to wean him from that. Keep us posted and we'll walk with you  

We don't support any form of CIO or CC (ie waiting set amounts of time before comforting) here but we do encourage listening to our LO's cries and hanging back if they sound like they're settling themselves or responding to them if they need us, including their need for comfort. [As an aside, what we call PU/pd is actually staying with them by their side, giving verbal and/or physical reassurance. We'd only leave them once we know they're settling themselves, and return if they get upset. Neither PU/PD nor wi/wo are based on set time intervals, rather they're about listening and responding to our LO's cries ]

On a completely different note, 13mo is usually somewhere in the middle of the 2–1 nap transition. Would you mind posting your current routine - not just what you're aiming for but what actually happens, as we may be able to suggest a few tweaks which could help him to settle and sleep better

Oh, and another thought - did things get worse when you started giving pain meds? It's just that I've heard of some LOs who find that ibuprofen actually gives them really painful stomach cramps; other LOs find it much more effective than paracetamol , so I'm not saying don't give it, just something to be aware of in case it has this effect on him.

Thanks Trimbler! The information is very helpful.

As for how he's going to sleep now, naps are worse than nighttime. For naps, I've been doing a combo of different things honestly. I start by doing our normal routine and putting him down. He immediately starts to fuss but I say "night night, love you " as I always do, and try to leave to see if he will calm. (now I know from your post I don't have to wait a certain amount of time if he's crying really hard after I go- thanks!) He doesn't usually. So I try to come back and lay him back down and rub his back a minute. He usually calms down a little then, but sometimes I have to pick him up. Then I put him back and say "night night, love you" and leave again. He usually stands up and starts crying.  If it doesn't work again, I end up rocking him some or even close to sleep. I've even resorted to laying with him in my bed a couple times just out of sheer frustration and knowing he needs his sleep somehow. I would like to have a better plan so I can be more consistent. At night he hasn't done more than cry for 30-60 seconds before calming or one night I had to return once, hold him for a few minutes, and leave. But that one revisit worked.

I didn't like the idea of any form of CIO for this because I felt like it would be more harmful than helpful. I read the link you mentioned on the wi/wo vs. gradual withdraw method. He definitely has the skills to sleep independently. He's done it for months. And he still continues to sttn once asleep even if there was some struggle initially to get to sleep. So I think the wi/wo should work based on the article. From what I'm reading if it doesn't, I can go to the gradual withdraw, right? How long would you try the wi/wo before you went to gradual withdraw?

Thanks for the pu/pd clarification! I rented the book today and will be reading the applicable sections so I have a better in depth knowledge of everything!

I didn't notice a correlation between pain meds and the behavior. He does it whether or not he's had any. I try not to give it unless I know he really needs it and is cranky during the day, not just at sleep times. He's generally a pretty happy boy so I can tell when he's in pain.

Here's our current schedule:
8a- wake, milk
8:30/8:45- breakfast
10:30 to 11:30/11:45- nap
12:30- lunch
2:30 to 4/4:30- nap
4/4:30 (whenever up)- snack w milk
6- dinner
7:30- bath, milk, bedtime routine
8/8:30- bedtime

He seemed perfectly happy with his schedule before this behavior popped up. I'm very consistent with this as I'm a SAHM. Only once in a while will a nap be delayed if we're out doing something and not at home. He still seems tired in the am when we go up and do the naptime routine. But I thought perhaps he wasn't tired and was ready for one nap as you mentioned. I tried it today- we cut the am nap and I took him up after lunch at 12:45/1. It didn't seem to make any difference. Still had a terrible time

[KaylaJo]

I just posted a similar topic. The same age!

Oh no! I hope we find something that helps soon. Let me know if you do! It's awful to see your LO so upset

[KaylaJo]

Also where should I look for schedule advice during our slow transition to one nap? We were taking naps at 10:30 and 2:30 as my schedule indicates above. All I've read and been told is to shorten the am nap and keep the pm nap long. But that doesn't seem to be working for us. He doesn't seem tired at 10:30 but it's too long to wait til after lunch for one nap. So today we did 11 and it went well. DH put him down so that would have played a part in the no crying tho.

[trimbler]

Hi there, thanks for the detailed information about your routine, I strongly suspect that part of the problem is he's not so tired at 10:30, as you say, although his body clock will be telling him it's time for a nap, which is why he may sometimes seem tired.

I'm not so sure that he's ready to go straight to one nap just yet, as you say it's a process and there are actually two ways they commonly do this - the first, as you say, would be to shorten the morning nap, although I personally think that might go better for you if you can get it to 11am first, since 3h seems to work for many LOs when deliberately shortening the morning nap. Sounds like he can settle at that time I'd be interested to hear how the rest of that day went, and the night? Did you try for a second nap in the afternoon? The other way to do it would be to push out that first nap, then you'd end up eventually with a cat nap in the afternoon, which would disappear altogether at some point and then you're on one nap. Here's a useful link From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older) Also if you'd like to chat with others going through the 2-1, there's a thread here: Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 7 Seems a bit quiet at the moment though, last poster was me

As for wi/wo, if you feel that's the right approach for you then go for it But be aware you'll need to be consistent if you want to give it a proper try, which means keeping at it until he goes to sleep by himself - otherwise you could be inadvertently teaching him that if he just cries for long enough, you'll come and snuggle him to sleep in the end. Hopefully he may get less upset now that you're going straight back to him, but if he's used to you laying down with him in the end, then be prepared for him to continue crying for a long time the first day you try this, as he'll be expecting you to 'give up'. I can't really give you a set number of days to try it, but let us know how day 1 goes and how you feel about it and we'll take it from there. Actually I won't be able to get on here tomorrow evening so it might be two days before we can discuss it. If the meantime, if he really is very distraught and you feel it's doing more harm than good, then by all means switch to gradual withdrawal - but then stay consistent with that, try not to start doing one thing and then switch to the other half way through, if that makes sense?

[BstnMelody]

My DD started to show signs of the 2-1 transition at 9 months,  and we mostly there by 12 months. The only thing I wanted to add was that the short morning long afternoon nap never worked for us. When I tried, it led to a short afternoon nap too. So we went with long morning, kept pushing it back to around noon, and then just went for a short catnap around 5 until I found that 7pm bedtime was getting later, and then dropped the catnap completely. Good luck!

[KaylaJo]

Hi there, thanks for the detailed information about your routine, I strongly suspect that part of the problem is he's not so tired at 10:30, as you say, although his body clock will be telling him it's time for a nap, which is why he may sometimes seem tired.

I'm not so sure that he's ready to go straight to one nap just yet, as you say it's a process and there are actually two ways they commonly do this - the first, as you say, would be to shorten the morning nap, although I personally think that might go better for you if you can get it to 11am first, since 3h seems to work for many LOs when deliberately shortening the morning nap. Sounds like he can settle at that time I'd be interested to hear how the rest of that day went, and the night? Did you try for a second nap in the afternoon? The other way to do it would be to push out that first nap, then you'd end up eventually with a cat nap in the afternoon, which would disappear altogether at some point and then you're on one nap. Here's a useful link From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older) Also if you'd like to chat with others going through the 2-1, there's a thread here: Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 7 Seems a bit quiet at the moment though, last poster was me

As for wi/wo, if you feel that's the right approach for you then go for it But be aware you'll need to be consistent if you want to give it a proper try, which means keeping at it until he goes to sleep by himself - otherwise you could be inadvertently teaching him that if he just cries for long enough, you'll come and snuggle him to sleep in the end. Hopefully he may get less upset now that you're going straight back to him, but if he's used to you laying down with him in the end, then be prepared for him to continue crying for a long time the first day you try this, as he'll be expecting you to 'give up'. I can't really give you a set number of days to try it, but let us know how day 1 goes and how you feel about it and we'll take it from there. Actually I won't be able to get on here tomorrow evening so it might be two days before we can discuss it. If the meantime, if he really is very distraught and you feel it's doing more harm than good, then by all means switch to gradual withdrawal - but then stay consistent with that, try not to start doing one thing and then switch to the other half way through, if that makes sense?

Thanks again! I'll check out those 2-1 nap transition links for sure.

So the rest of the day went well--he got an afternoon nap about 3 hours after he woke from 1st nap. He went down without crying. Actually, he has been back to his little angel self for sleeping the past 2 days. NO crying at all!!!! Yesterday, he seemed tired at his regular 10:30a naptime so I put him down and he was just fine. I didn't even get a chance to try wi/wo. The only thing that really changed was that his 8th tooth poked through the same day the behavior stopped. So maybe I was wrong and this was teething related?? He never did this for any other teeth so i just found it odd. I will keep all of the techniques in my back pocket though in case I need them in the future.

I do think he's ready to start lengthening that morning wake time, so as he seems ready, I will stretch it a little at a time. Thanks so much for all your help and support!

[KaylaJo]

My DD started to show signs of the 2-1 transition at 9 months,  and we mostly there by 12 months. The only thing I wanted to add was that the short morning long afternoon nap never worked for us. When I tried, it led to a short afternoon nap too. So we went with long morning, kept pushing it back to around noon, and then just went for a short catnap around 5 until I found that 7pm bedtime was getting later, and then dropped the catnap completely. Good luck!

Thanks for sharing! When you moved the am longer nap what did you do with lunch? Just give it a little later after wake up from 1st nap?

[trimbler]

I'll let BstnMelody answer for herself (thanks ) but just to say some LOs end up doing best going one way down the 2-1 whilst others prefer the other route. With the short am, long pm nap there's no issue really with lunch timings, but as PP said it can be tricky to find just the right combination of A times and first nap length to get a reliably good second nap. On the other hand, some just won't settle well for a second nap if they have a long first nap, so there you have to cap the first one. Either way, you'll want to push the first A to at least 3h, so hopefully you'll get a feel then of which way might work best for your LO...