Author Topic: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....  (Read 770 times)

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Offline sszskristy

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Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« on: January 24, 2016, 00:56:53 am »
DD has always been a good sleeper even though we had gone through 4mth and 9mth sleep regression, which I could handle. But since we come to the toddler world, I feel like things is getting harder and harder. First of all, she is super clingy now. I can only eat or cook when she is taking nap. I play peek a boo, I offer a lot of cuddle, but it doesn't seem getting better. For the sleeping, she can't -self-settle anymore.  I've read about the WI/WO and GWM, but I am not sure it works for us. She will stand up immediately when you leave her room. If you stay, she will also stand up and look at you or smile at you. I have to treat her like a 2 mth old baby now,  rock her, co-sleep with her, or anything works.  For the last three days, we put her in our swing chair at the balcony and rock her till she is in deep sleep and then put her back to the cot---we r just too tired to handle this, the swing chair really helps us. But I am so worried that may create a bad habit. For the NW, normally it would happen around 23:00-1:00 or 2:00-3:00 or both. The reason I said toddler is tough than baby is that she would stand up, open her eyes and cry loudly. And it won't be easy to let her go back to sleep. Before the 1st birthday, the occasional  NW is very easy to deal with because she didn't stand up, just cried with eyes closed, you just need to pat her a little bit.

Here is our routine:

7:30 wake up
8:00 breakfast
10:00 milk
11:30 nap
12:30-13:30 wake up
13:30 lunch
15:30 snack
17:30 dinner
19:00-19:30 bedtime (It is a big challenge for bedtime now, because it takes long time to let her down, she falls asleep around 21:00 very often!)

PS: we complete the 2-1 nap transition very early, around 10-11 mth. And it was totally fine at that time.

Please help. I did try a lot, including teething relief. But I just feel like hopeless now. Maybe she was too easy when she was a baby. And she is much stronger now, cries quickly, loudly, more cranky, it is not that easy anymore.Sigh!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 01:17:10 am by sszskristy »

Offline Emami

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Re: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2016, 20:11:50 pm »
Hi there, I do think you're right and this is something you need to get on top of before too long.  Rocking, co-sleeping etc are fine if they're not a problem for you and everyone is getting some sleep, but it doesn't seem like this is the case for you so you definitely don't want to end up with huge prop issues.

Yes, toddlers are a whole different ball game than babies! My DD2 is 14 months, so similar age to yours, and if she wakes at night she is also loud and usually standing. We go in if she needs us, lie her down if she lets us, reassure and leave. If she resists lying down or she pops back up then she just stays standing and we reassure and leave. At 13 months I assume your LO knows how to get back down from standing? So I wouldn't worry about that. Once we leave my DD2 often starts crying again, but here's where it helps to know your baby's cries. Yes she is loud, but that doesn't always mean she needs us to go back in. It's more like a protest and then she'll settle herself. If she's really upset we would go back in as needed but intervene as little as possible. You want your LO to go back to sleep in the cot not in your arms or your bed, so comfort from nearby with your voice as much as possible. It might take a long time and she might cry a lot if she has got used to being held, but she knows you're there and will eventually go back to sleep. She has been an independent sleeper before so hopefully this is a short-lived thing and you won't have to go much down the route of GW or WIWO before she gets back to it. She may just need that extra comfort for now as she is at a lovely age for SA and has a lot going on developmentally (and teeth?).

In terms of routine is her nap more often 1 or 2 hours? She may be getting OT by BT if she is usually only sleeping an hour, and from 12:30 it's a long time to bedtime. I would try pushing the nap a bit later and see how you go.
Emma






Offline sszskristy

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Re: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2016, 10:47:25 am »
Hi there, I do think you're right and this is something you need to get on top of before too long.  Rocking, co-sleeping etc are fine if they're not a problem for you and everyone is getting some sleep, but it doesn't seem like this is the case for you so you definitely don't want to end up with huge prop issues.

Yes, toddlers are a whole different ball game than babies! My DD2 is 14 months, so similar age to yours, and if she wakes at night she is also loud and usually standing. We go in if she needs us, lie her down if she lets us, reassure and leave. If she resists lying down or she pops back up then she just stays standing and we reassure and leave. At 13 months I assume your LO knows how to get back down from standing? So I wouldn't worry about that. Once we leave my DD2 often starts crying again, but here's where it helps to know your baby's cries. Yes she is loud, but that doesn't always mean she needs us to go back in. It's more like a protest and then she'll settle herself. If she's really upset we would go back in as needed but intervene as little as possible. You want your LO to go back to sleep in the cot not in your arms or your bed, so comfort from nearby with your voice as much as possible. It might take a long time and she might cry a lot if she has got used to being held, but she knows you're there and will eventually go back to sleep. She has been an independent sleeper before so hopefully this is a short-lived thing and you won't have to go much down the route of GW or WIWO before she gets back to it. She may just need that extra comfort for now as she is at a lovely age for SA and has a lot going on developmentally (and teeth?).

In terms of routine is her nap more often 1 or 2 hours? She may be getting OT by BT if she is usually only sleeping an hour, and from 12:30 it's a long time to bedtime. I would try pushing the nap a bit later and see how you go.

Hi thanks for replying. I spend the past 3 days to try different technics. Unfortunately things are getting worse. Yes, at first, I can at least put her in the cot and help her lieing down. But now, she strongly refuses nap and bedtime. She will cry from the very beginning of bedtime routine. And for the nap, she starts to cry on the way to her room. Everything doesn't work anymore. She hates sleeping, her room and her cot. She just cries and cries until she is too tired. This is definitely a vicious circle. She woke up 4 times last night. Too  horrible. She can get 2.5hr nap sometimes, but she just had 40 min nap today. Have no idea why. I find she has two new teeth coming out very soon, but can't see any good signs about sleeping.

Offline Emami

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Re: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 19:46:52 pm »
What have you tried the last few days?  Sorry it's been so difficult.  I think she might be UT for her nap since she already went through the 2-1 transition a couple of months ago it might be time to shift it later.  We are just finishing with the 2-1 here, and when my DD protests that much I'm learning that it's because I'm trying for a nap too early and she can actually handle longer. If she's more ready for the nap she might settle easier, and be better rested during the day which should also make BT easier if she's not OT going into it.
Emma






Offline sszskristy

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Re: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2016, 10:00:32 am »
I have good news today, still want to update here even though not too many people replied, hope to help somebody else in the future. BTW, why there aren't many people discussing toddler sleep issue? I strongly believe toddler is more difficult than babies!

Anyway, I have started WI/WO from last weekend and this time I really made up my mind. The reason I always failed before is that I cannot hear baby's crying. I have to say DD was such an angel when she was a baby, she only cried when she was hungry or tired, just feed her or put her in bed, everything would be fine. So when I left her in cot standing and crying, I can't help to come back.

But this time, I come back every 3 minutes and say the phrase, walk out even she is still crying. The first night was tough, she was screaming rather than crying. I never heard this before. It was killing me. But after I WIWO like 4-5 times, she finally started to calm down and fell asleep. The whole process last 40 min. The second day, things got improved. Firstly, the nap was very easy, she fell asleep straight away, I didn't come back! For the second day bedtime, it took 40 min as well, but her crying was not that strong and didn't last very long. The third night, it only took 20 min and only came back once! So I have to say, it really works.

However, we still have NW problem. I tried paracetamol once. And she woke up one time. Last night didn't give her anything and woke up 3 times. At the same time I am not pretty sure it is because of teething. Could it because she had a tough bedtime and got OT? I bought a teething tablet this morning, I am gonna try this one tonight.

So my question is that when she wakes up during night, do I still use WIWO? And I only use the medication before bedtime. I should also use it again when she wakes up?

Offline Emami

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Re: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 22:00:37 pm »
If it seems like meds help I would continue to give them, and yes top up at NWsome.  Teeth can play havoc with everything so I would do what you can to eliminate discomfort as a factor.

I am a little concerned that the way you are doing WIWO actually sounds like controlled crying.  With WIWO you listen to her cries and go in when she needs you, don't time it and wait for the clock. I know 3 minutes isn't long, but the thing is she has no concept of time so if she needs you to be there and you're not responding she doesn't have that reassurance that you will come back. But yes, if you are doing WIWO for BT and have had some success it's best to be consistent with it and do the same thing for NWs.
Emma






Offline sszskristy

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Re: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 12:22:47 pm »
If it seems like meds help I would continue to give them, and yes top up at NWsome.  Teeth can play havoc with everything so I would do what you can to eliminate discomfort as a factor.

I am a little concerned that the way you are doing WIWO actually sounds like controlled crying.  With WIWO you listen to her cries and go in when she needs you, don't time it and wait for the clock. I know 3 minutes isn't long, but the thing is she has no concept of time so if she needs you to be there and you're not responding she doesn't have that reassurance that you will come back. But yes, if you are doing WIWO for BT and have had some success it's best to be consistent with it and do the same thing for NWs.
If it seems like meds help I would continue to give them, and yes top up at NWsome.  Teeth can play havoc with everything so I would do what you can to eliminate discomfort as a factor.

I am a little concerned that the way you are doing WIWO actually sounds like controlled crying.  With WIWO you listen to her cries and go in when she needs you, don't time it and wait for the clock. I know 3 minutes isn't long, but the thing is she has no concept of time so if she needs you to be there and you're not responding she doesn't have that reassurance that you will come back. But yes, if you are doing WIWO for BT and have had some success it's best to be consistent with it and do the same thing for NWs.

For the last 3 days, everything seemed back to normal. She fell asleep on her own within 10 min and no NW. She did stand up when I left, but she didn't cry. And when I went to another room and picked up the monitor, she already sat down.

I am also a little bit confused about the difference between WIWO and CC. If I have to walk in when she needs me, then I will never have a chance to walk out or stay outside. Because  that I need you crying won't stop even when I comfort her. If I don't time it, well, then I can only stay outside 0.01 second and then walk in again. So what is the right way to do it? Open the door and walk in immediately after just walking out? Then I am afraid she will never stop crying until overtired.

The crying only last three days, she is all good from Day4 and she seemed as happy as usual in daytime. So no matter how I did it, it really worked. But after reading your reply I got worried again because I don't know if there is some consequences that I didn't see!

Offline Emami

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Re: Super frustrated, help~13 mth SA, NW....
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2016, 20:08:29 pm »
Hi, sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you. How's it going?  I hope she's still sleeping better, and I didn't mean to worry you about the methods you used. I'm not suggesting there will be consequences,  I just wanted you to be aware that CIO and CC aren't what we do here. That's not to say that you don't ever let your baby cry, it's more about listening to what she is trying to communicate.  So if you left her when she was crying but it was her mantra cry (ie self-settling), that's fine. But if you leave her and wouldn't go in no matter what until a set time was up, that's different. 

Here's some more info on WIWO
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
If she really is screaming and won't calm down I'd probably stay and work on GW. WIWO can wind some babies up so I agree, there's no point literally just walking in and out while she screams at you!
Emma