Happy singing Emw for a 7 month old

[Mum2lucy]

Hi all,

I've been having nap issues which have been improving through the help from the nap board so I'm here now for some help with Emw 😄😄

My lg is 7 months old. She goes to sleep independently for naps and feeds to sleep at bedtime usually. I don't think she has to feed to sleep for bedtime - it just works out that way due to tiredness. She can self settle usually if she wakes early on in her night sleep.

I had been dream feeding at 11pm until recently but dropped this two weeks ago as she wasn't taking much and I felt I was interrupting her sleep pattern. Seems to be ok with this - isn't waking at 11am looking for the feed.

Her sleeping tends to look like bt between half 6 and half 7 depending on her last nap. We are in the 3-2 transition.
The problem is that if she sleeps through 7pm - about 5.30am, she then Emw and singing / happy screams and it is hard to get her back to sleep. I can sometimes achieve this by breastfeeding her (10 hours without a feed by then so I assume this is ok). Sometimes she will do 7pm - 2am (feed) then still awake around half 5.

Do you think that is her up for the day (I really hope not!) as she has had over 10hours sleep or I have an issue going on?

My easy for yesterday was:

Wu: 7.50 (this is late, we slept in)
S: 10.45 - 12.10
E: 12.10 - 12.20
E: 12.45 lunch solids
S: 2.50 - 3.05 (fell asleep in car and wouldn't extend sleep when out)
S: 4.25 - 4.55
E 5pm dinner solids
Bt 7.20

Thanks! xx

[Kellyjs]

Hugs, I hate EW  Could you post a day for me when she did EW please?

It is a little on the late side to be going through the 3-2, but not unheard of. Has she always had lower than average A times?

I'm not surprised she falls asleep feeding at BT. That last A might be a little long after a 30mins nap, but I just want to check another days easy to make sure what's going on there.

It's not unusual for them to have less ONS when going through a nap transition. That's when we know the day sleep has to reduce, or the last A gets too long as a result of a nap drop and that OT before BT causes the EW.

What I did find with DD is when I dropped the DF at 7mo, she did start waking earlier for a little while. I too presumed hunger given she was used to the DF, but looking back she was only taking 2-3oz int he end. It did coincide for us with a need to increase the first A but it seems you might have done that recently? Look forward to hearing from you xx

[Mum2lucy]

I didn't realise that 7 months was late for the 3-2 transition?
She has always actually had above average a times until recently when her naps went weird and the nap board thought she was ot. Her morning a was up at 3.5 hours but was getting a short nap so I've reduced it to 3hrs and I'm getting a 1 hour 20 min nap now.
The thing with my lg is that she isn't showing tired signs at all just now! She can stay up 4 hours during the day without a yawn, moan etc. So confusing!

My easy yesterday was as above with a Emw at 5.50 where I fed but she didn't go back to sleep. She stayed in her cot chatting to herself until 7am. I try to make 7.15am our consistent with.
 
The day befores easy was:

Wu 7.30
S 10.30 - 11.00 (wouldn't extend)
A
E 12.00
S13-40 - 14.25 (then pupd) 14.40 - 15.40
Bt 18.40

Night wake ups: 5.30 (fed and back to sleep until 7.45)

Thanks for your reply! xx

[Mum2lucy]

*7.15am is the meant to be our constitent wake up. Xx

[Kellyjs]

I had one of those too.. no tired signs. Got so excited when I did get one that I rushed her to bed and no nap for 4.5hrs 

5-6mo is the average, but hey what's average?!   .

How long have you had the 3hrs A for now? Have the EW started since you reduced that A time? xx

[Mum2lucy]

Yes I guess so and also coincided with dropping the dream feed.
Before I dropped the df, it was feed 11, wu around 4am for a feed and back to sleep until about 7am ish. So I am getting a longer spell of solid sleep from her but then Emw that she sometimes won't extend.

I actually feel like her whole routine has gone off lately with her naps being strange. If I have to go out, her day time sleep goes all wrong.

Do you think I should up the morning a to over three hours? or shorten the a before bed? Or both? Ha 😄 X

[Mum2lucy]

Realised I didn't answer your question! I had the 3hr 10min a in Dec and was getting good 1.5 - 2 hour naps but then it went wrong and a lost those so I upped it to 3.5 hours but I kept getting 30min naps so it was reduced back to 3hrs. She has been doing 3hrs for about 5 days now. Xx

[Kellyjs]

I'm just wondering if we're expecting too much ONS yk? Some bubbas never really do 12hr ONS and that just throws everything out.

Ok, it may be that she sis get a bit OT after xmas and the naps mods rightly recommended pulling back the A a little. This can also happen during developmental leaps too int hat the A time needs reducing slightly whilst they work out what it is. Then it needs pushing again!

If you were getting good naps at 3hrs 10mins last month and nw they've reverted, I'd actually look at increasing that first A only back to that and see where that gets us. Wdyt? I would keep the last A as is it for now, just because I don't want to shorten your day much more, but if we have to add any more onto that first A I might look at reducing the last one. I would keep it shorter if that last nap is a bust though ok? Anything under an hour I'd shorten the last A by 30mins or so.

And the naps do go off when we go out. It's a rock and a hard place isn't it? We have to go out for our sanity, but our sanity also needs Y time and sleep! I did always try and be at home for DD's naps but that's because she never slept in her buggy ever! Car seat was ok, but only ever one sleep cycle. I know some mum's on here just make sure they have their bubba have at least one good nap at home if they can. Do remember, it changes up so much in the coming months, you'll be able to be out for longer stretches without naps getting int he way  xx

[Mum2lucy]

Last night she did 6.40 - 10pm, wee cry but settled then 5.20am where I fed and she then chatted in her cot but must have gone back to sleep as my alarm woke us up at 7.15am. Not a bad night all in all.

I am having a terrible time with her naps. She is almost refusing naps just now and doing 30mins when she does. Tried 3hrs 10mins this morning and got a 35min nap. Will hold the a there for a few days and see what happens.

she is driving me crazy just now. She just isn't herself. I am hoping the bad day sleep doesn't give me more nw. 

[Kellyjs]

Great night yay! I want to keep an eye on the naps, I'm not sure but as the night sleep is getting better again, your naps are going off aren't they? Ypu don't ever seem to get both  . Keep a log of the days for me and we'll keep at it xx

[Mum2lucy]

Hello

A wee update:

I seem to b getting two night wu's now. One around 12.30 then about 4.30 then Emw about 6am. I don't know whether to start the dream feed again? Maybe I stopped it too early?

Easy yesterday looked like:

During the night fed 12am, 4am
Wu 7.15
A
S 10.05 - 11.35
E
A
S 14.50 - 15.30 (in car)
Bt 6.35

Nwu 12.35 (settled no feed), 4.15 fed, 6.15 fed
Wu today 7.45

I'm tending to get 1.5 nap in the morning and not so good in the afternoon, usually 40mins. She is knackered by bedtime but don't want to bring it even earlier than half 6! 😓

[Kellyjs]

No I wouldn't bother bringing back the DF now, she'd have already self-regulated to take more during the day.

No I wouldn't want to bring BT earlier either given she seems to max out at 11.5hrs ONS before waking up. I still do think we're expecting too much NS with your current routine. technically you're not getting an EW as it's over 10hrs sleep yk? So i think it's a case of shifting your day for you and sorting out that second nap. She may be OT by BT hence the NW's.

Are you mostly out and about for the 2nd nap? Some bubbas can't sleep over a sleep cycle elsewhere, I have one of those! xx

[Mum2lucy]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not always out and about in the afternoon but much more than the morning. I tend to stay in for the morning as I know I usually get a better nap then. I can't stay in all day everyday as it really affects my mood not seeing/talking to people - my oh works away. I so wish she would sleep more out the house.

I met a friend today in the afternoon and hoped lg would sleep in pram but she didn't drop of until 4hrs 15mins and did an ot 20mins nap. Went home and tried to get her to nap again thinking that I'd push bedtime back but she wasn't having it and we powered through to bedtime at half 6.

Just feel like I can't win. Maybe I should go out in the morning and if she doesn't nap I have more time in the day to recover from the ot??

Xx

[Kellyjs]

When I was in your position wrt naps, I did stay in then hoped for a car nap later on. Do remember it will all change in the coming months, it won't be long until you have to cap the second nap or first one with the increasing A times. On those days when the second nap is rubbish, just do your EBT as you have been doing ok? A happy mumma is much better than a miserable one stuck at home all day! xx

[Mum2lucy]

Thanks!

The naps are bad again, yesterday she has 1hr 10mins all day. Last nights nw were 2,4,6 zzzzzzz. Pretty tired today! I fed at 2am and 6am. Got up at 7 as she didn't go back to sleep after 6am feed and now I'm writing to you 😄

At the 2am wu, she woke happish and talked /groaned in her cot. I left her for 15mins until it was getting progressively unhappier. However when we go to her, we try shhh patt and then pick her up if his fails. When you pick her up, she clearly doesn't want picked up as she arches her back like crazy. Shhh patt isn't working and doesn't want picked up. After 40mins of trying to get her back to sleep, I fed her at 2.40. She didn't take that much (10mins whereas usually night feeds are 15mins) so I am not sure if she truly needed it. Any suggestions here?
Xx